Protection Work, Human Aggression & Positive Trainers

[Just Midol]

Can anyone give me the names of trainers who've succeded in protection work using positive methods? I only want a trainer who also has video proof of this being achieved.

Also interested in trainers who have solved human aggression, more specifically handler aggression & again, only interested in trainers who have created video proof.

If there is no proof, I don't want to hear their name.

[Vickie]

;)

[SkySoaringMagpie]

;)

x 2

[Kavik]

Midol, as exciting and interesting as protection work is, not all dog training revolves around it. Not all people or all trainers are interested in it, that does not make them lesser trainers than those that are. There are many dog sports out there, and many talented trainers in all dogsports.

[JulesP]

I would use an ecollar on the handler! Actually I was thinking about asking Erny if I could borrow one for my class at the weekend. I have a couple of pupils that need a bit of a zapping! ;)

[Quickasyoucan]

I would use an ecollar on the handler! Actually I was thinking about asking Erny if I could borrow one for my class at the weekend. I have a couple of pupils that need a bit of a zapping!

And I have a friend whose husband needs zapping!

Midol your OP comes across as very aggressive, I know it was 4.15 am, but if you post your question in a less pugilistic way maybe you will get some answers.

I don't have very strong views on anything but to me it felt like you had your fist in my face.

[MonElite]

Uta Bindels. You will have to google her, she is German.

Met her, seen her train, she is a clicker shutzhund trainer. Very successful in competitions. Tiny skinny lovely and fun woman has BSD's

She is coming to Sydney in May and will be judging a sch trial as well as will give seminars on her methods.

Now if you ask if she is PURE positive than no, she isnt, she will however try to fix problems with positives before she reaches for negatives.

Edited February 5, 2009 by MonElite

[Kavik]

Can you keep us posted as to when in May she is coming, I would be interested

[Colliewood]

Can you keep us posted as to when in May she is coming, I would be interested

me too,

ta

[Staff'n'Toller]

Midol you're already doing a course with some Veteran trainers who use the most humane methods to teach protection dogs so why the question??

Move to Melbourne if it interests you that much.

[Just Midol]

Midol, as exciting and interesting as protection work is, not all dog training revolves around it. Not all people or all trainers are interested in it, that does not make them lesser trainers than those that are. There are many dog sports out there, and many talented trainers in all dogsports.

Except I am only interested in protection, so I only ask questions on protection. Ohh, and sledding & agility.

I don't see what you're getting at. I never implied they were lesser trainers but if I'm not interested in obedience then how & why is what an obedience trainer says relevant in the sport I am interested in?

Uta Bindels. You will have to google her, she is German.

Met her, seen her train, she is a clicker shutzhund trainer. Very successful in competitions. Tiny skinny lovely and fun woman has BSD's

She is coming to Sydney in May and will be judging a sch trial as well as will give seminars on her methods.

Now if you ask if she is PURE positive than no, she isnt, she will however try to fix problems with positives before she reaches for negatives.

I said protection, not schuhtzhund. I'm more interested in trainers who have trained service dogs, and have had them deployed and not pulled off the street.

Midol you're already doing a course with some Veteran trainers who use the most humane methods to teach protection dogs so why the question??

Move to Melbourne if it interests you that much.

Which ones?

AFAIK, the ones who I'll me meeting don't use PP techniques. I only know of one down there who is a protection trainer (though I have a feeling he gravitates towards Schuhtzhund) and he uses the same tools I use. I'm interested in reading up on methods other than those I currently use.

Why would I move to Melbourne? It's in Victoria

[Staranais]

I've seen some good results with fear aggressive dogs using purely positive methods (counterconditioning/desensitisation in fearful situations, along with NILIF etc to set boundaries & establish confidence in the human pack leader). IMO fear aggression is very amenable to correction by purely or mostly positive means, since the dog would rather not be having to aggress in the first place - he or she is only behaving aggressively to ward off a perceived threat. Remove the dog's perception of the threat, and you'll often remove the aggressive behaviour.

Of course, that's very different to a dog that is aggressive due to prey/rank etc, where the dog seems to enjoy the effects of the aggression (or even enjoy the behaviour itself).

I have no video evidence though, so won't mention names.

[Kavik]

I'm simply saying that maybe those that prefer positive methods are not interested in protection training.

Sort of like those that do protection may not be interested in doggy dancing if you get my drift?

[Just Midol]

I'm simply saying that maybe those that prefer positive methods are not interested in protection training.

Sort of like those that do protection may not be interested in doggy dancing if you get my drift?

I've seen some who are into schuhtzhund doggy dancing

Star, Yeah, I've seen fear aggression treated with PP methods but never rank based.

[kyliegirl]

Edited February 6, 2009 by kyliegirl

[BJean]

I'm simply saying that maybe those that prefer positive methods are not interested in protection training.

Sort of like those that do protection may not be interested in doggy dancing if you get my drift?

I've seen some who are into schuhtzhund doggy dancing

Star, Yeah, I've seen fear aggression treated with PP methods but never rank based.

I think you will find that generally purely positive trainers with a rank HA dog, will prescribe medication.

as according to *some* trainer's philosophy, if a dog is acting aggressively when you do not want it to (towards other people, not the handler), then the dog is anxious and/or because the handller is not being an adequate leader blah blah

Also if one does not believe in rank, then one cannot diagnose it - therefore in a positive only world, a dog is more likey to be anxious than truely dominant; true dominant dogs are not born, so called dominant HA dogs are resorting to 'violence' because they are upset, fundamentally unhappy, eating disorder etc

Edited February 6, 2009 by lilli

[Kavik]

Those are 'sport' though, not protection and not the "C" phase of the sport either.

[kyliegirl]

Those are 'sport' though, not protection and not the "C" phase of the sport either.

whoops my bad

[Kelpie-i]

I think you will find that generally purely positive trainers with a rank HA dog, will prescribe medication.

as according to *some* trainer's philosophy, if a dog is acting aggressively when you do not want it to (towards other people, not the handler), then the dog is anxious and/or because the handller is not being an adequate leader blah blah

Also if one does not believe in rank, then one cannot diagnose it - therefore in a positive only world, a dog is more likey to be anxious than truely dominant; true dominant dogs are not born, so called dominant HA dogs are resorting to 'violence' because they are upset, fundamentally unhappy, eating disorder etc

So how do you diagnose a "rank" dog and one that is fear aggressive? Aren't both emotive behaviours based on defense drive? Lord Midol, you seem to be the expert in drives...what do you think?

[JulesP]

Midol was asking about aggressive handlers. Not aggressive dogs. Midol I doubt that you will get a video on such a thing as I imagine the aggressive human will not want to have it broadcast. Am happy to talk to you about aggressive people but have no video. lol