Wish I Hadn't Asked!

[BC]

but her opinion is that the majority of people won't do what I do and will cause damage in that way. She may be true - who knows?

I agree ... BARF can cause damage if not done correctly. I have fed my dogs BARF and never again as no matter how "by the book" I did it, it did not agree with one of my dogs and there was a big change in him !!

They are brilliantly healthy on the kibble I choose to feed. I do add either a raw egg or sardines to that plus their RMB.

I understand your frustration however BARF is not the be all and end all ... as Trisven said, each to their own ;)

[Drumbeat]

I understand your frustration however BARF is not the be all and end all ... as Trisven said, each to their own ;)

I have no problem with everyone having their own opinion, but I object to being told that dry food is the only option.

[huski]

I feed my dogs a mixture of raw and kibble, but until I can see scientific evidence or a discussion between suitable qualified professionals, I am not sure which is correct.

But for that is the problem - it is the same thing as training. The only thing two trainers will agree on is that the third is wrong. There are vets out there that agree with raw feeding (such as Dr Jean Dodds) and vets who don't, I chose to do the research and make up my own mind, based on what I have learned and what my dogs do best on ;)

If raw isn't the best for them I have no qualms feeding dried food.

Edited February 5, 2009 by huski

[Crisovar]

The reality is that every day Vets deal with pet owners who have no idea at all, you would not believe,the diets of some of the animals. Unless you had a Pet Nutritionist on staff you wouldn't have the time or the resources to deal with it. For most Vets the safest way out is to suggest that the clients feed a commercial diet, it takes out the guess work and you have a better rate of owner compliance.

I have had owners eyes glaze over when you try to tell them how to apply Advantage. You have to more often than not simply resort to KISS.

Last week we had a young large breed dog that was being fed only roo meat, no bones nothing else, simply plain minced roo. This has been the only diet of this dog from 6 weeks to 8 months.

Next was the dog that every day eats my dog gourmet meals and gingernut biscuits, the latter actually was doing quite well compared to the pup.

People who frequent forums like these usually have a keen interest in their pets and for many, their animals are their life, compared to the regular pet owner who isn't as informed and not as inclined to research and learn. It is the regular pet owner that Vets see in abundance.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Crisovar

[GoldiesRgr8Poodles2]

The reality is that every day Vets deal with pet owners who have no idea at all, you would not believe,the diets of some of the animals. Unless you had a Pet Nutritionist on staff you wouldn't have the time or the resources to deal with it. For most Vets the safest way out is to suggest that the clients feed a commercial diet, it takes out the guess work and you have a better rate of owner compliance.

I have had owners eyes glaze over when you try to tell them how to apply Advantage. You have to more often than not simply resort to KISS.

Last week we had a young large breed dog that was being fed only roo meat, no bones nothing else, simply plain minced roo. This has been the only diet of this dog from 6 weeks to 8 months.

Next was the dog that every day eats my dog gourmet meals and gingernut biscuits, the latter actually was doing quite well compared to the pup.

People who frequent forums like these usually have a keen interest in their pets and for many, their animals are their life, compared to the regular pet owner who isn't as informed and not as inclined to research and learn. It is the regular pet owner that Vets see in abundance.

Very well said. Was going to say the same thing. I have a grooming salon where i sell high quality kibble and unless someone asks me about barf I dont bother for the same reason as mentined by Crisovar.. People will glaze over on the simplest task let alone trying to balance a diet with raw food.

Ill start this paragraph by stating I AM a fan of BARF and feed mine a half and half diet. But everyone who says about "well what would your dog eat if it were wild" seem to not realise the reality of the dogs that we own as pets. Aside from obvious coat restrictions that would cause they to become matted and incopasitated but most breeds are so far removed from wild instinct that they would starve before they figured out that not only would they have to catch their prey but kill it too. Then there is the worms and parasites that they would get from eating certain parts that even barf feeders probably wouldnt feed to their dogs becasue of the risk of parasite.

Again im not saying BARF is bad becasue i think its great but what it comes doen to is that most breeds kept as pets probably couldnt survive in the wild anymore. Not saying ALL breeds but most that the general population own.

flame suit on

;)

[Odin-Genie]

..even dogs change with evolution. The old argument that they did not do it in the wild really does wear a bit thin.

I feed my dogs a mixture of raw and kibble, but until I can see scientific evidence or a discussion between suitable qualified professionals, I am not sure which is correct.

I tend to agree. The old argument that because they ate raw meat in the wild a millenia ago, that ought to be the best food for them doesn't seem logical to me. I am not a dog nutritionist, but I know for sure that my elkhound can't handle raw meat more than once a week. He gets stomach upsets. So his regular diet is Artemis.

[Kirra_Bomber_Zeus]

you must have much better self control then me...i'd have been verbally bashing both times if that happened to me ;)

i love your "erm, ok, I didnt realise dogs learned to cook in the wild" quote...can i borrow it?

Hahaha - of course

I tend to agree. The old argument that because they ate raw meat in the wild a millenia ago, that ought to be the best food for them doesn't seem logical to me. I am not a dog nutritionist, but I know for sure that my elkhound can't handle raw meat more than once a week. He gets stomach upsets. So his regular diet is Artemis.

I fully understand there are some dogs out there that dont do well on raw for whatever reason but although dogs lifestyle has changed from when they were in the wild I dont believe their digestive system has changed all that much.

I dont think (and please correct me if Im wrong) that the OP was saying that everyone should feed raw, and bashing those that dont, I think they were basically saying that they dont appreciate being told that dry is "the only way"....

[stormie]

The reality is that every day Vets deal with pet owners who have no idea at all, you would not believe,the diets of some of the animals. Unless you had a Pet Nutritionist on staff you wouldn't have the time or the resources to deal with it. For most Vets the safest way out is to suggest that the clients feed a commercial diet, it takes out the guess work and you have a better rate of owner compliance.

I have had owners eyes glaze over when you try to tell them how to apply Advantage. You have to more often than not simply resort to KISS.

Last week we had a young large breed dog that was being fed only roo meat, no bones nothing else, simply plain minced roo. This has been the only diet of this dog from 6 weeks to 8 months.

Next was the dog that every day eats my dog gourmet meals and gingernut biscuits, the latter actually was doing quite well compared to the pup.

People who frequent forums like these usually have a keen interest in their pets and for many, their animals are their life, compared to the regular pet owner who isn't as informed and not as inclined to research and learn. It is the regular pet owner that Vets see in abundance.

Agreed.

I would have to say that the majority of dog owners just want to feed something simple and easy and actually want to feed dry food. You can't trust the average pet owner to understand a raw diet and be compliant with it, and if they get it wrong and the dog is unwell, guess who gets blamed - the vet!

I often tell clients that I feed raw and its like Cris said - their eyes glaze over and you can see they're really not interested! I find it quite exciting when I speak with someone who even adds raw meat or bones to their dogs diet, because its not often it happens! I'd like to stock raw food in the clinic to make it convenient for owners to get it - supermarkets don't have a huge range and buying supermarket meat can be expensive for med-large dogs - and to also be able to educate them on how to feed it at the same time, but at the moment, I don't see it happening. Maybe one day though!!

In saying that though, I don't agree with vets and/or nurses telling people dogs don't need raw meat. But if people do say that they feed raw, I think its important that vets question the diet to ensure it is balanced (assuming the vet would know that is!!!).

[Drumbeat]

I dont think (and please correct me if Im wrong) that the OP was saying that everyone should feed raw, and bashing those that dont, I think they were basically saying that they dont appreciate being told that dry is "the only way"....

Exactly

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Most of my dogs can't tolerate raw meat unfortunately, life would be easy if they did!

If mine get an upset stomach, they get nothing for 24 hrs (vet's advice) and then Basmati rice and tuna or sardines (never in oil, only springwater). If the shop has run out of springwater cans, then I would buy oil but wash carefully.

Try cooked pumpkin or sweet potato - also good for loose motions!

[huski]

I tend to agree. The old argument that because they ate raw meat in the wild a millenia ago, that ought to be the best food for them doesn't seem logical to me. I am not a dog nutritionist, but I know for sure that my elkhound can't handle raw meat more than once a week. He gets stomach upsets. So his regular diet is Artemis.

But we're not talking about a millenia ago. How long do you think we have had commercial food for? it hasn't been around that long. What do you think domesticated dogs ate before there was neatly package dried food?

[Drumbeat]

Try cooked pumpkin or sweet potato - also good for loose motions!

I added some cooked pumpkin to the chicken and rice last night and the 'result' this morning is very promising.

[MiniMum]

I no longer go to that vet but she did make me lose confidence in what I was doing.

- I hope you can get your confidence back.

I have had owners eyes glaze over when you try to tell them how to apply Advantage. You have to more often than not simply resort to KISS.

Didn't realise it could be that bad

In saying that though, I don't agree with vets and/or nurses telling people dogs don't need raw meat. But if people do say that they feed raw, I think its important that vets question the diet to ensure it is balanced (assuming the vet would know that is!!!).

Agreed. My vet sells but doesn't push dry. Having said that, he isn't knowledgeable about raw diet.

If mine get an upset stomach, they get nothing for 24 hrs (vet's advice) and then Basmati rice and tuna or sardines (never in oil, only springwater). If the shop has run out of springwater cans, then I would buy oil but wash carefully.

Try cooked pumpkin or sweet potato - also good for loose motions!

Thanks dogmad . My guy was rather loose this morning (a rare occurance), and the only new thing he had was sardines in oil. I was wondering if that could have been the cause. If it doesn't clear up, I'll try the pumpkin or sweet potato (he loves them both), will investigate further.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Anything oily can upset the stomach but also can lead to pancreatitis. Conversely, a little olive or flaxseed oil in the diet can be good for dry skin/coat and skin issues.

[MiniMum]

Anything oily can upset the stomach but also can lead to pancreatitis. Conversely, a little olive or flaxseed oil in the diet can be good for dry skin/coat and skin issues.

Yeah, it is a bit of catch 22 isn't it? He has itchy/scratchy/atopy issues so I gave him a little flaxseed which he seems to handle ok. Maybe the sardines on top of that was just too much.

[Odin-Genie]

I tend to agree. The old argument that because they ate raw meat in the wild a millenia ago, that ought to be the best food for them doesn't seem logical to me. I am not a dog nutritionist, but I know for sure that my elkhound can't handle raw meat more than once a week. He gets stomach upsets. So his regular diet is Artemis.

But we're not talking about a millenia ago. How long do you think we have had commercial food for? it hasn't been around that long. What do you think domesticated dogs ate before there was neatly package dried food?

Human food

A lot of people I have talked to about dogs tell me that in their parents time, dogs were given scraps from their plates. There wasn't much awareness of dog food.

The dogs probably did get raw meat once in a while, but also a lot of cooked food!!

[huski]

Human food

A lot of people I have talked to about dogs tell me that in their parents time, dogs were given scraps from their plates. There wasn't much awareness of dog food.

The dogs probably did get raw meat once in a while, but also a lot of cooked food!!

A lot of what I feed my dogs is human grade (mince, vegies/fruit, raw bones from the supermarket etc).

The argument that raw food is biologically appropriate (again, not saying everyone should feed raw as a complete diet, although even before I knew about raw diets, I always fed raw bones regularly) is based on the way that dogs bodies have evolved to benefit from and digest raw foods. We're not talking about the dawn of man kind of stuff - as it wasn't that long ago that there was no dried food to feed. Even cooked food is different to commercially processed dried food.

There was an interesting discussion in another thread not too long ago about what people fed dogs before they had kibble. I agree that not all dogs will do well on a raw diet, but I can't deny the results I have seen in my dogs since changing them over. Dr Jean Dodds also sees a lot of excellent results in dogs that are changed over to raw, and not just in regards to overall condition but in health too.

Edited February 6, 2009 by huski

[Odin-Genie]

A lot of what I feed my dogs is human grade (mince, vegies/fruit, raw bones from the supermarket etc).

The argument that raw food is biologically appropriate (again, not saying everyone should feed raw as a complete diet, although even before I knew about raw diets, I always fed raw bones regularly) is based on the way that dogs bodies have evolved to benefit from and digest raw foods. We're not talking about the dawn of man kind of stuff - as it wasn't that long ago that there was no dried food to feed. Even cooked food is different to commercially processed dried food.

There was an interesting discussion in another thread not too long ago about what people fed dogs before they had kibble. I agree that not all dogs will do well on a raw diet, but I can't deny the results I have seen in my dogs since changing them over. Dr Jean Dodds also sees a lot of excellent results in dogs that are changed over to raw, and not just in regards to overall condition but in health too.

Don't get me wrong. I am not against raw food. All I am saying is that it may not suit all dogs.

[Nekhbet]

Didn't realise it could be that bad

ask your vet about how many people think advantage/frontline etc is put in the dog/cat food to eat. Yup. You would be suprised how many and I always made sure people knew not to feed it to them.

[Crisovar]

I tend to agree. The old argument that because they ate raw meat in the wild a millenia ago, that ought to be the best food for them doesn't seem logical to me. I am not a dog nutritionist, but I know for sure that my elkhound can't handle raw meat more than once a week. He gets stomach upsets. So his regular diet is Artemis.

But we're not talking about a millenia ago. How long do you think we have had commercial food for? it hasn't been around that long. What do you think domesticated dogs ate before there was neatly package dried food?

Human food

A lot of people I have talked to about dogs tell me that in their parents time, dogs were given scraps from their plates. There wasn't much awareness of dog food.

The dogs probably did get raw meat once in a while, but also a lot of cooked food!!

The dogs in our family ate meat scraps and bones along with leftovers, but the leftovers were not at all a big part of their diet, there were not many leftovers. Wasting food was not the thing to do.