Vickie Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) any ideas? we have a back deck with about 10 steps leading in to the backyard. When my male dogs (11 & 12YO) want to come up the stairs, Shine races past them & lays at the top, ready to pounce when they get there. For her it's nothing more than bossy rough play, but for them, as they get older, it sucks. Noah has taken to sitting at the bottom of the stairs & woofing until I come out & call her off. Zeus will sometimes wait till I notice & other times, brave it & cop a beating at the top. I especially worry about Noah as I think he feels vulnerable as he is not as fit or agile as he used to be. All I have to do is say her name & Shine gets up & leaves her post. She has never attempted to do this with Trim. People never believe she does this as she is the most gentle of dogs, both with people & with other dogs she meets...but in this situation here with my boys she can be a right bitch. I am not worried about them fighting, they all interact well & both boys love a good rumble with her. any ideas on how I can get her to stop this specific behaviour? Edited February 4, 2009 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 anyone? no-one? At the moment I am just managing this, but as Noah become older, it's going to get worse. The 4 dogs are never left outside when I am not home, so the boys will never be stuck in the hot sun, but I obviously can't watch them every second when I am home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I have no ideas but am hoping someone does. My young male BC constantly mouth licks my male Bullmastiff and Duke doesn't tell him off 99% of the time but it clearly annoys him. Nothing I do has been able to stop it. I've begun to think that there's nothing I can do to stop it, that only Duke can stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You could give Shine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 You could give Shine to me. how about Noah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Awww poor Noah. Sorry no real advice Vickie. Kenzie does it to Ness over door steps but we are fortunate enough that there are other ways in to the house. I think you can probably only keep doing as your doing and manage the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 yep, I wouldn't worry if I thought the boys could find a way around it. It's just getting to the point where they can't. The only thing I have really tried is to hide & throw something near her at the fence when she gets into the position. It does scare the crap out of her, but she is not a dog to hold onto stuff like that, so it's forgotten within 5 minutes. I have also never allowed it from day 1...but I guess she has gotten away with it enough times when I have not been watching for it to be worthwhile for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) BCs are buggers when they think something is a game (and that game can be seriously one sided and they still think its fun ). Bit of lateral thinking happening here - what about placing something at the top of the stairs so that she can't lay there but obviously something they are still happy to walk on. Not sure what you might use and whether it would work and for how long. Not sure that that object might be but it might break the habit or it may not. She might just lay in front of whatever you place there and it still might have the desired effect of preventing the boys up the stairs. Not sure how wide the stairs are either but could you split it in two with a barrier so they can get up one side even if she tried to lay in front of it. If you extended the barrier far enough past the top of the stairs so that it made it impossible for her to block both sides at once. Again not sure on the feasbility but it was just a wild suggestion. Edited February 5, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Vickie - will she still do it if one of you are outside with the dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 not quite as much if I am right there, but yes she will. Thanks Ness for ideas. Noah has always had a bit of a spatial problem with stairs so I am reluctant to add anything that would make it more difficult for him. I can't think of anything that they could walk over but Shine wouldn't lay on (she's a bit of a mountain goat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBen Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 yep, I wouldn't worry if I thought the boys could find a way around it. It's just getting to the point where they can't.The only thing I have really tried is to hide & throw something near her at the fence when she gets into the position. It does scare the crap out of her, but she is not a dog to hold onto stuff like that, so it's forgotten within 5 minutes. I have also never allowed it from day 1...but I guess she has gotten away with it enough times when I have not been watching for it to be worthwhile for her. "Can't" or "won't"? If the boys know you're going to be there to help them out, it's kind of positive reinforcement for them NOT to do anything????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) "Can't" or "won't"? If the boys know you're going to be there to help them out, it's kind of positive reinforcement for them NOT to do anything????? I think with Noah, it's getting close to can't. I don't see any positive reinforcement happening here at all. I really think he feels physically unable to deal with the stairs and getting nailed at the top of them. He is used to our stairs but has an odd way of negotiating them, once he starts he can't stop. He has always had trouble walking over bridges, ramps that he can see through. If they are rumbling in the backyard & she gets too rough & hurts him he will tell her off in no uncertain terms & she accepts this, so I think in normal circumstances he is more than capable of dealing with her, or any other dog for that matter. Zeus is not exactly the smartest dog in the world...he will just stand there all day, or cop a beating from her...I guess at least Noah lets me know he needs help. Edited February 5, 2009 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 My thoughts Vickie would be to initially make it easier for the boys and for Shine to understand what you expect. I would initially sit out there with her on lead and when get the dogs to come up the stairs, rewarding Shine of dropping, going to a mat or NOT bullying the boys. It may take a while, but I think getting her to do something other than bossing the boys around, *especially* if you can also prevent the behaviour (barriers etc) is the only thing I can think of. As you have said - getting the timing right with the startle effect is really hard. You can always graduate from this by every time you walk by the steps and the dogs are behaving - you can throw some food out there for them etc to reward appropriate behaviour. I did this with some other annoying behaviours (and just as self rewarding) with considerable success at home. May not work, but it's an idea I had floating around up there ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelbrook Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Something that may be worth a try is setting her up to fail so you can teach her her behavior is unacceptable. What I mean is be watching for the behavior and strongly reprimand her by making a loud sound or something that startles her so she knows you mean business and learns the behavior is unacceptable quick smart. Teach her to associate something unpleasant with the behavior. Then call the boys up in front of her and ignore her. Just a thought ... you may have to do it consistently for a while ... I found it worked with my young shepherd when she started blocking and pouncing on my older one every time he went through doorways ... she rarely tries it now ... but I sometimes see her thinking about it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 True true LP, one of those weird occasions where a manners minder may actually fix the problem. ;) Use the boys at the stairs as a cue for her to target or drop near the manners minder and be rewarded remotely. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 totally forgot about the manners minder snt! hehe - maybe I need to get me one for my little 'issue' ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I have needed one for quite some time to stop my cat racing out the front door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I have needed one for quite some time to stop my cat racing out the front door. Heh heh I trained mine to sit on the ledge next to the door when we enter or leave the house - works a treat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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