No Fetch For A Month - Change In Behaviour

[ruthless]

We just got back from a weeks holiday. When we were away we had someone live in the house and mind our dogs. I didn't want him letting them off lead at any time, so about a month ago I stopped playing fetch with them as part of their morning exercise routine so they wouldn't be expecting it while we were away. Since we got back it's been too hot to throw the ball and I've noticed that Chopper seems a hell of a lot calmer than he used to be. I'm not sure if he's just spaced out from the heat or if it's cause he doesn't partake in any high energy activities any more. Could it be that chasing the ball was causing his highly strung behaviour?

edited to make more sense!

Edited February 3, 2009 by ruthless

[Jigsaw]

There seems to be from what I've read a school of thought that too much exercise or too much ball chasing can cause stress and therefore increase hormone levels. When you think about it being in a constant state of anticipation that a ball might be thrown or a toy might be available must cause some changes in a body, making it harder to turn off. A predator chases say a rabbit for a short time and he either catches it or doesn't catch it. He then moves on to the hunt for the next prey if he misses. So I guess when we continuously throw toys for our dogs it may well put stresses on them other than the physical. It would be interesting to observe his behaviour when the weather cools down and see how he is if you don't start ball playing again.

This is one reference where I have seen it mentioned : http://www.canis.no/rugaas/oneqanda.php?id=629

[Tonymc]

Ruthless, firstly this is not a go at you in any way but a reflection on many dogs I see.

Somebody buys a horse off me or wants help with one and one aspect I make sure they understand is the natural being of the horse as a prey Animal.This helps them alot to understand where the horse is coming from,why he responds the way he do's and how he may respond to certain stimuli.

Dog owners owe it to their dogs to explore and understand the whole being of the dog and not just superficial or basic aspects.the so called " Highly Strung Behaviour' from the dog is the Dog going into and or being in drive.

Rather than see it as highly strung, see it as the greatest tool you have to train and communicate with the dog.A Dog feels whole when able to experience drive and a Dog's most receptive state for learning is when in drive.

I would be utilising the Ball and drive to train your dog.I would not be surpressing drive as I have seen dogs learn its not safe to express drive around owners.What do's this cause the dog to do?It cause's the dog to get away from the owner inorder to express drive.So it cause's avoidance of the owner.

I would much much sooner allow a dog to release and express drive rather than surpress it.Surpressing it is unatural for a dog and may cause unwanted or neurotic behaviour.

I would not get carried away with the so called stress idea, as Dogs experience stress as part of life.Anyway its a far greater stress for a dog with a good level of drive having to surpress it.

Surpression of drive has played its part in some of the dog bites we hear about. Tony

[Jigsaw]

Tony - I'm no expert on drive training (I'm only just starting it!) but I'm trying to clarify in my head the difference between throwing a ball for say 40 mins at the park and drive training. Chasing a ball for 40mins do you think this supresses or expresses drive? Let me see if I can put into words what's in my head! Chasing a ball or walking a dog doesn't necessarily mentally stimulate a dog so they are left with frustration (stress) which to use your words (hopefully in the right way) expresses itself in unwanted or neurotic behaviours. So maybe we're coming at this from different directions? I agree stress is good for dogs (and us), it helps us learn but too much stress stops the learning.

[poodlefan]

I've read somewhere that adrenalin can remain in a dog's system for up to 4 days (Rappie where are you? )

A friend of mine who was doing flyball with one of her dogs stopped and said he quickly become a much calmer and easier to live with dog. She was training and competing twice a week.

Theoretically, the dog always had heightened adrenalin levels.

[Staff'n'Toller]

My boss's Labs have plenty of off lead exercise, swimming and ball chasing every day without fail but they have NO balls available to them in the yard.

They are very chilled out Labs...can be totally OTT when they want to be but yes definitely see a big behaviour change when balls are available as the higher drive dog is always searching for them.

Mel.

[ruthless]

Our dogs fight over toys, so there's no toys when they're unsupervised. I know what you mean though SnT, my neighbours GSD is ball crazy and constantly either has one or is looking for one.

[Quickasyoucan]

Ruth did you try incorporating the ball into your drive training. Best of both worlds.

I have stopped using the ball thrower with Jake, but instead use it as my prey item for drive training. I put it away out of sight when we are home, so he knows when to turn on and turn off - he soon learnt there is no point looking.

Obviously it's easier for me as I am not dealing with a multi-dog household, but I have found the ball great for drive training, I use a rubber one not a tennis ball to save on teeth, and have found that it helps keep Jake focussed when we are out. I don't throw it far but just incorporate sit, stay, heel etc. Tires him out much more than straight running as someone said he is exercising his mind as well, also as he is getting older and given the heat I was concerned about him running to far and too fast.

For the first time ever on a leash free dog beach at the weekend he didn't run off and go surfing and come back only when he wanted, as soon as I used my drive cue and mentioned the ball we were able to enjoy the water but on my terms.

[fainty_girl]

Obviously it's easier for me as I am not dealing with a multi-dog household, but I have found the ball great for drive training, I use a rubber one not a tennis ball to save on teeth, and have found that it helps keep Jake focussed when we are out. I don't throw it far but just incorporate sit, stay, heel etc. Tires him out much more than straight running as someone said he is exercising his mind as well, also as he is getting older and given the heat I was concerned about him running to far and too fast.

I use a ball thrower and Tilly's favourite squeaky rubber ball to play fetch with her everyday. She can run and swim (retrieving the ball) for about 1hr 15 mins before getting tired. If she's not at a park where she can swim, then she will run for 1 hr up and down a big hill before getting tired, because she isn't able to cool herself down by swimming.

The first couple of times I took Tilly to the dog park, when I first got her and she was not yet playing fetch, she was all over the place...running around the park at full speed and then she would go up to people and jump up if they showed interest in her. When I started playing fetch with her, she became much more focused, and when a ball is around she really doesn't want pats from anyone. She still does get distracted when she sees other dogs running, and so she goes off to join in, but she does come back to me.

For Tilly, playing fetch is an outlet for her energy and she absolutely loves it.

[Jigsaw]

I could take my koolie to the beach and we could walk for over an hour the whole time throwing a ball for her. She would ignore other dogs unless they came up to her and literally poked her. But she would also steal other dog's balls! Her focus the whole time was on the ball, not on me, we could ask her to sit and she would sit in the waves, but only if we had the ball, she doesn't want pats from anyone, she wants the ball! She would be physically tired but still come home and bark her head off continuously for a long long time. Since we have started drive training and I am in control of all her toys which are no longer available to her, she is much calmer around the house, still wants to engage in play when someone goes outside (grabs anything) but that is now ignored unless we are training. So redirecting her drive is starting to work for us.

Chronic exposure to stress expresses itself in different ways - if we are stressed at work 5 days a week we're usually stressed at home until we unwind. This stress might mean we have a couple of drinks, we might pick a fight with a spouse or child, we might abuse the other drivers on the road etc. In a dog it could be expressed as being more reactive to strangers, barking, aggression etc. It would depend on the dog and how it can shrug off the stress. Like people I would think some dogs would be more prone to it than others, maybe for genetic or environmental reasons.