Raw Feeding And Feet

[SoL]

First question:

I was just wondering for those of you who feed 100% raw, how are your dogs' pasterns? Are their feet nice and tight or are they flat? Have they changed since feeding raw (either way)?

Just curious as there is opinion that too much meat/protein in a dogs diet leads to weak pasterns and therefore flat feet. If that is the case then surely everybody on a raw diet would have or would be in danger of having flat feet? How then is that balanced out? How do you ensure the correct calcium:phosphorus:vit D ratio?

Second question: Does anybody's dog get constipated on the amount of bones given to them in a raw diet?

Look forward to answers

[poodlefan]

I'm just raising my second raw fed puppy. I think he was a bit down in pasterns when I got him at 10 weeks (he's a Whippet) but I couldn't tell you if that was a developmental or diet issue. This was Howie at 9 weeks.

This is him now at 5.5 months.

One of my boys does get a bit constipated if he's fed bones for a couple of days and not exercised enough (eg. if its raining). It's one of the reasons why I do include plenty of veggie pulp in their BARF mix.

I expect to have to increase the veggie mix as he ages and his bowel becomes less active.

[stormie]

I feed raw, however I fed a commercial large breed puppy diet whilst Orbit was in his critical growth phase. I know people who have fed raw from puppyhood and had no problems, however it's not something I would do. I'm too concerned about getting the right amount of calcium and phosphorus and also the ratio of the two, to feed raw during the puppy stage.

I tend to feel that weak pasterns/flat feet can often be more of a calcium problem than protein - ie not enough during growth, which is often why people recommend Vit C to correct it, as Vit C increases calcium absorption.

Also, as puppies grow, their bodies change around and it's not uncommon for them to become more slopey/flat footed at different stages, however in most cases, its normal and it corrects itself but in cases of poor nutrition/over exercise then it is more severe and can become permanent.

Since switching to raw, I have not had any changes in pasterns for feet.

As for constipation, yep, too much bone does make his stools quite dry, but I find this easily corrected with some fibre and increasing the amount of meat fed.

Edited February 1, 2009 by stormie

[gundoglover]

I've fed raw meaty bones for more than 20 years. It doesn't seem to weaken pasterns or feet - if anything, the feet and pasterns get strengthening exercise from holding the bones while the dog eats. Dogs with longer pasterns seem to take longer to come up on them.

It is important to feed the meat with the bone. That way they get the balanced minerals from the bone. Feeding calcium without the correct balance of phosphorus and magnesium will lead to joint problems. So, if the dog is fed the raw meat without the accompanying bones small enough to chew and digest (or sufficient ground sterilized bonemeal - not the stuff that goes on the garden), they will be worse off than if they are just fed a good kibble.

I note that others have had problems with impaction (and vets would see these, when they occur, so this would influence their views). The meaty bones that I feed are always raw and from small or young animals and a variety of sources: chicken, lamb, veal, pork. Once or twice a week they get sardines, yoghurt & an egg. Each day, they get a spoonful of oil (cod liver, olive or sunflower) and kelp powder. The oil may act as a lubricant because I have never had a dog with a bowel impaction (or maybe I've just been lucky).

ETA: I've fed puppies from weaning on this diet with no problems. It is important to keep puppies from becoming overweight - too much weight will flatten feet and bend pasterns!

Edited February 1, 2009 by gundoglover

[Cavandra]

Raw diets are normal, they are not HIGH in protein, they are normal protein & of high quality.......

The issue with HIGH protein diets, leading to growth problems & temperament issues are due to commercial products, many of which have abnormally high amounts of poor quality protein......They have more protein than a dog would normally eat!

I do not have issues with constipated dogs & feed a total Raw diet with very occassional vege/fruit matter, maybe every 1-2 months they might get a bit.

Ester C is the best source of Vitamin C, it is readily absorbed and utilised , whereas plain old Vitamin C is not absorbed ......Lack of Vitamin C will cause growth problems.

[espinay2]

I have not had any problems with weak pasterns as a result of a raw diet. I actually feed slightly less bone in proportion to meat to young growing dogs than I would worry about with adults. Emphasis on raw MEATY bones. I find it works better for my growing big dogs as they grow more evenly. I do give Vit C as well.

In regards to constipation - the higher the proportion of bone, the more likely they are to get hard poos. When feeding pieces with a higher proportion of bones (eg chicken frames ), I tend to give extra muscle or organ meat as well. Alternately I make sure after a couple of days of just chicken frames that they get a few meals with a higher proportion of muscle meat. On the whole I tend to prefer feeding meatier types of RMB's on a regular basis though.

[SoL]

So can I then ask what would a typical day's diet be for one of your dogs (brekkie and dinner)??? And where typically would I find RMBs considering that briskets are like hens' teeth nowadays?

[MiniMum]

Hi emmark, our guy came to us when he was 7 months. He had been fed "doggy devon" and dry food. He was underweight and had constipation. We now feed raw and he is a good weight and has no constipation issues. Our vet says he is very healthy.

I'm no expert but the research we have done suggests that when you feed raw you should give 2 to 3% of their body weight in food every day. So TD gets around 250g a day of RMB and barf patty, half in the morning and half in the evening. I have tried different combinations but what seems to be working best is 100g of the patty and 150g of RMBs. However, we do keep an eye on him, his fitness, bodily functions and weight and will adjust accordingly.

The RMBs are: chicken necks, turkey necks, lamb, beef and pork off-cuts, chicken wings and legs, all which we get from supermarket and some butchers. Sometimes as a treat he will get lamb neck chop. I also check out the reduced price meat in the supermarkets

I also make up a mix of vege/oil/vitC pulp which I mix into mince (kangaroo at the moment, got that from a pet store), which I also freeze in portions.

[espinay2]

So can I then ask what would a typical day's diet be for one of your dogs (brekkie and dinner)??? And where typically would I find RMBs considering that briskets are like hens' teeth nowadays?

Here is a website with info on a pups diet that is similar to what I feed. I switch things round a little meal-wise (i.e. what gets fed when), but what they get is basically the same. (My adults get fed a bit differently): Feeding Puppies

Not sure what your sources are like where you are. I generally shop at the fresh food markets here in the ACT or occasionally pick things like turkey necks up at the supermarket. I buy in bulk for multiple dogs though. If I had just one, I would possibly just go to the supermarket or similar. Lenards sells chicken frames and casserole pieces for a good price and the local butcher has lamb necks and beef brisket when I need to pick some up to tide me over. When I can get down there, I buy bulk from some pet food suppliers in Sydney. I was using the home delivery service rawfood4dogs (I think that was them? and they were good - just haven't got around to ordering lately). You might want to check out the advertisers marketplace on this website to see if there are any suppliers you could use.