sandgrubber Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 People often recommend trainers or behaviouralists to dog owners who are having problems. I have seen a few cases where owners have tried and gotten nowehere. In some cases, I know the owner didn't follow through, but in other cases I know they owner worked hard and the recommendations didn't work. Am I correct in thinkng that anyone can call themself a behaviouralist or a dog trainer? Or does this vary between states / countries? How do you identify a good (high chance of success) practitioner in an area where there are no standards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) I think you could apply the same question to many professions. If we take the veterinary profession as a parallel, there are 2 factors: skill/expertise and complexity of issue presented. the skills that a vet nurse will have in diagnosing an issue will vary according to experience. Some will be able to recognise & treat minor uncomplicated issues & some won't. Many will try & they will be right sometimes & wrong other times. Some will have more training and experience than others. It is unlikely that they could diagnose a complex set of symptoms or perform a major operation. A vet will obviously be more likely to successfully diagnose & treat an issue than a vet nurse, due to their training & experience...but there will still be cases that stump them. A complex series of symptoms and little or no background information would make it hard for most vets to treat successfully first time. They can also have areas they specialise in, so will appear more successful in some areas than in others. Doesn't the same apply for dog trainers/behaviouralists? Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer & for a basic issue with an uncomplicated dog, they can be. It would take someone with a whole lot more experience & training/qualifications to achieve something complex and /or with a dog who has many or unknown serious issues. I always find word of mouth the best recommendation for anything. Edited January 30, 2009 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 There is no criteria in this country per sae, and I do classify myself as a behaviouralist based on the years experience in dogs, and the many seminars I've attended on various forms of canine disfunction both behavioural and physiological (OCD for example) My business comes from word of mouth....people either like me and refer others to me based on their satisfaction or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) I think you can categorise most trainers nto a few different groups- Veterinary Behaviourists- have the ability to dispense medication in line with behavioural diagnosis and advice. Those that i have met always use medication in line with other strategies which are based on positive reinforcement only. Generally at least double the price of qualified trainers Qualified Dog Trainer/ Behaviour Specialist- Either hold a DELTA qualification or NDTF qualification, the main difference being that generally DELTA trainers use positive reinforcement techniques and NDTF trainers use techniques from all areas. Some DELTA trainers always refer to a veterinary behaviourist for aggression and anxiety issues. These are the two categories that i think are important for people to understand. Then we have- Franchise qualified trainers- those who have done a course through the franchise and now promote as qualified dog trainers. Tend to be very expensive but offer guarantees Volunteer Obedience instructors- through clubs etc, some do private lessons. If someone in another state wishes to seek assistance, i generally reccommend they seek an NDTF qualified trainer/ behaviourist as i prefer someone open to all strategies, with the exception of Perth/ WA because i know no one who is suitably qualified and experienced to teach owners about corrections- hence i recommend a positive behavioural trainer who i know. It is an unregulated industry and is likely to remain so, given that the only thing two trainers can agree on is what the third one is doing wrong!! ETA- word of mouth is very important- most of our clients come from word of mouth and our website (which has a long page of testimonials) Edited January 30, 2009 by Cosmolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 It is an unregulated industry and is likely to remain so, given that the only thing two trainers can agree on is what the third one is doing wrong!! LOL to the above Cosmolo. Anyone can call themselves a "dog trainer" or "behaviourist", regardless of how many years they have been training dogs for, but I personally believe you need to have ample knowledge of theory coupled with many years handling experience (with many varied dogs and problems) before the term "dog trainer" is true and justified. My biggest worry Cosmolo, and I'm sure you see this too, are some people who complete either their Delta or NDTF courses, who have all of 5 mins experience, yet they go out and call themselves dog trainers. I don't know about you, but this absolutely terrifies me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Yes kelpie i- i totally agree, particularly given some of the changes to the course and the way grading occurs (which i understand is difficult/ impossible to change because of the way the government recognises adult learning courses) Just goes to show that personal word of mouth (particularly from someone who has experienced similar problems) will always be the best way to find a quality dog trainer/ behaviourist. Experience + Qualifications + People skills= a good start! Its very difficult for the average dog owner to understand the way the industry works and how to select a good trainer if they have no word of mouth from friends or family. I also know that kick backs are involved with some vets referring to trainers/ behaviourists etc for a % $$ so simply asking a vet will not always give an impartial opionion!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Why do people say 'behaviouralist' instead of 'behaviourist'? Does that even make gramatical sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Why do people say 'behaviouralist' instead of 'behaviourist'? Does that even make gramatical sense? I think they think it sounds more scientifical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) Why do people say 'behaviouralist' instead of 'behaviourist'? Does that even make gramatical sense? I think they think it sounds more scientifical SG - Could be worse .... I've heard "behaviouralismist" before. Edited January 31, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Some volunteer trainers at dog clubs do fairly hefty training too I would expect a behaviourist or whatever you want to call it to have a Uni degree of some sort. As well as the dog training stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Heavens, I could call myself a behaviourist. I have a degree in science and animal behaviour was one of my majors. I don't think you need a uni degree, just a course in training completed and a few years under a respected mentor. The latter is the important bit because you can have all the raw talent in the world but experience hones it and gives you more examples to draw from. In zoology, you can largely compensate for experience with knowledge of literature if you have a good memory and a brain suited to applied science, but in the end you will be miserable at field work until you build some solid experience. I was speaking to the person who I did my first nest-finding job with one time and all I could think was that if I had done the same job then after 3 seasons of nest-finding, I would have done a hugely better job. This person thought I did a fine job anyway and did better than some specialists that had come in from other countries, so I really think it's a combination of having a knack for it and experience under a mentor. Difficult things to quantify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) My biggest worry Cosmolo, and I'm sure you see this too, are some people who complete either their Delta or NDTF courses, who have all of 5 mins experience, yet they go out and call themselves dog trainers. I don't know about you, but this absolutely terrifies me. This also worries I. One thing that pisses me off though, is how hard it is to find a place to get practical experience. I'm doing the NDTF course as you know and wanted to go to my local rescue and excersize the dog and practice training techniques on them but they keep ignoring my offers I only want to practice my positive reinforcement side of it but they still won't let me, my dogs aren't suited to luring and what not and I want to become better at the basics. ---- I think requiring a uni degree for a dog behaviorist is going a bit far though. Many of the behaviourists on this board don't have uni degrees yet are far more knowledgable than any vet behaviourist and they have a degree. It's not even that hard to obtain a *pass* in a degree imo. AFAIK there are no specific animal behaviour degrees anyway - I've looked. Edited January 31, 2009 by Just Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 My biggest worry Cosmolo, and I think requiring a uni degree for a dog behaviorist is going a bit far though. Many of the behaviourists on this board don't have uni degrees yet are far more knowledgable than any vet behaviourist and they have a degree. It's not even that hard to obtain a *pass* in a degree imo. AFAIK there are no specific animal behaviour degrees anyway - I've looked. I wouldn't count a Uni degree in animal behaviour as much of a qualification. Theory, maybe, but not practice. I am told that one of our local prominent Uni-trained behaviouralists (I think he call himself that) stated to a Ranger's conference that pound dogs should be euthanised, not rescued, because many of them were in the pound because of unresolvable behaviour problems. This is heresay . . . but having BS, MS and PhD myself and spent a lot of time around the highly educated, I find it entirely plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Umm I said they should have both a degree and practical training. That would be my criteria anyhow. Actually the trainers that I choose for private lessons do have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 But is it better to have a broad degree- or a specific training and behaviour qualification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Again the people I use have both, lol. A degree, training course & practical! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Again the people I use have both, lol. A degree, training course & practical! You use "Delta" don't you? Just curious . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Does anyone have links to relevant dog behaviour uni degrees- i have never been able to find any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 One was a Delta instructor yes. I don't tend to have behaviour issues with my dogs though. When Poppy was escaping I spoke to a vet behaviouralist who is also connected with Delta (Chair person). But I work with her hubby so it was a freebee! The other person has done the NDTF course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Jules- do you know what degree they have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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