ness Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Not sure where to post this topic but since its one that might be of interest to dog sports people I have placed it in training rather than health or general. My thought is that dog sports people are likely to have potentially high drive, ball/retrieve crazy dogs and I am after some thoughts. My question simply is should you/do you restrict or limit the length of time you allow a healthy adult dog to play fetch so that they don't cause undue pressure on their bodies day in day out. I understand why you place limitations on a puppy while they are still growing but I guess its not entirely good for adult dogs either especially day in day out twice a day or anything like that. So do any of you with ball crazy dogs have any thoughts on the matter. I have a 10 month old BC pup who would retrieve until the cows come home and is forever dropping a ball in your lap. I just don't want to set up a situation where if she fetches every day for as long as she wanted that she is then crippled by the age of 8 or 9 where I could have limited it earlier. Guess I am after some advice on what might be reasonable to allow on a daily/weekly basis with an otherwise healthy, fit, active girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I only really play ball type games when we are training, and use it as reward (I use a squeaky with Kaos instead of a ball). I don't go out and just throw it around for him to chase, and I don't leave it around either for him to chew on or to bring up to me to throw. So he is not chasing it for that long during any one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Short answer: Yes. It's high impact stressful exercise that can lead to injury. I know a couple of dogs for whom this is their only regular exercise and they are unsound. Owner keeps doing it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 If the short answer is yes what would people consider as an allowable amount then and yes Kavik I was considering restricting it only to a reward for training however I was also wondering if you don't allow it at all or only when training do you leave the dog open for injury because they aren't use to using those particular muscles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 My current lad isn't ball-mad but my ACD was an absolute nutter! I agree with PF - it's one of the big risk factors for HD, and not just in growing dogs. It's a very unnatural twist and impact on the hips....particularly, IMO, on the drought suffering ovals which are very dry, hard and unforgiving. I only use fetch games as a reward also. Will your dogs run under their own steam? Zig sprints flat out from sniffing point to sniffing point so I'm not concerned about a lack of muscle use. If they don't self-exercise perhaps you could play a game - at the beach I have Zig wait whilst I run away then call him to the left or the right as you would in agility and it's a great way to get a few sprints in plus do a bit of training. Can you get them to the beach, Ness? Throwing the ball into the water for a swim/fetch would be fabulous. In terms of fitness, I think the trick is variety - a combination of free running, controlled walking, a small amount of fetch and walking in deep water (The Spotted One has no interest in swimming as yet....I'm working on it ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 (edited) SD hmmm nope neither really run around unless there is something to chase. My older girl doesn't cut it as a play toy for the youngster. Ness sniffs, Kenzie just bounces up at me waiting to play . We do sit wait chase games to but she does love playing ball. Will just as happily push her soccer ball around the yard though and she gets a lot of that. We do head to the beach on weekends when I am not trialling my older girl and my older girl swims and the younger one chases after her (although as of this past weekend) she too will head out and fetch a toy in the water. Also head to the dog pool at least once or twice a week (twice when its too hot to walk them) and as of last week was able to get the youngster swimming in there too. Winter they get lots of exercise free running up bush tracks and creek swimming as well. Its just when I am feeling lazy and its easy to fall into the trap of going to the oval and sitting down and chucking the ball . I do train her at the same time though so its not endless fetching. We are lucky in that the oval we use is still regularly watered (probably cos it belongs to an expensive private school ). Edited January 27, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 If the short answer is yes what would people consider as an allowable amount then and yes Kavik I was considering restricting it only to a reward for training however I was also wondering if you don't allow it at all or only when training do you leave the dog open for injury because they aren't use to using those particular muscles. I'd suggest keeping sessions short (5 minutes), only when the dogs are warmed up, and perhaps given how motivating they find it, to predominantly as a reward after training. I tend to use a ball during training as a jackpot for Darcy as he lives to chase one. Even short tosses are what he likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 We dont play ball chasing games anymore (not on land anyway), i dont think it is worth the risk of injury. Clover tore a cruciate going after a ball 3 weeks ago & now i am a bit paranoid. I will still chuck a frisbee for them, but actually chuck it too them and not away from them. And of course the Border's still get to play Flyball. I cringe seeing dogs at the park going after balls and slipping/ skidding all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Not sure where to post this topic but since its one that might be of interest to dog sports people I have placed it in training rather than health or general. My thought is that dog sports people are likely to have potentially high drive, ball/retrieve crazy dogs and I am after some thoughts. My question simply is should you/do you restrict or limit the length of time you allow a healthy adult dog to play fetch so that they don't cause undue pressure on their bodies day in day out. I understand why you place limitations on a puppy while they are still growing but I guess its not entirely good for adult dogs either especially day in day out twice a day or anything like that. So do any of you with ball crazy dogs have any thoughts on the matter. I have a 10 month old BC pup who would retrieve until the cows come home and is forever dropping a ball in your lap. I just don't want to set up a situation where if she fetches every day for as long as she wanted that she is then crippled by the age of 8 or 9 where I could have limited it earlier. Guess I am after some advice on what might be reasonable to allow on a daily/weekly basis with an otherwise healthy, fit, active girl. Lexi says you are a bad person posting this topic - the answer to your question is ...... there is never enough ball throwing for a fit active girl The more you throw the ball the more I will get it and bring it back. Lexi's mum on the other hand, having just forked out a truck load of money to get Lexi's shoulder and hip areas treated, now says ball throwing is a dirty word, and future ball throwing will be limited to rewarding only for heelwork where the ball will be placed on the ground and Lexi released to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Don't forget the impact on teeth too. Jake's canine's are very worn from tennis balls, I regret letting him play so much when he was younger. We now restrict the ball and have incorporated a rubber ball it into our drive training, it is put away when I get home. I very very rarely use the ball thrower any more and given that I throw like the biggest girl's blouse when it is just me he no longer charges long distances. I like to do things like sit and stay then recall and then throw the ball a short distance away. Or make Jake wait while I roll the ball away and then retrieve. As he loves the ball so much I have tried to achieve some sort of balance. Jake also likes to play with a football, but given that he is prone to bouts of such intense dribbling (with the ball) that he rubs his nose raw, that has to be restricted too! I am proud to say he once bounced the ball 7 times off his nose without touching the ground tho promting my neighbours 5 year old to say "he's just like a seal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Yes Lexi but Kenzie's mum is learning from your experience that ball throwing no matter now much you may want it might be a bad thing but thank you for her getting the message before I injured myself. Signed Kenzie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Yep I was aware about the teeth so no tennis balls in this household - only rubber ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 All my dogs are super glad they don't live with you guys - ball is life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I do use a ball thrower for Darcy but it is not his only, nor his primary, source of exercise. Moderation is the key I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 I agree on the moderation front and I guess my question was where is the line between moderation and excess with a dog who won't draw the line its obviously a judgment call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I agree on the moderation front and I guess my question was where is the line between moderation and excess with a dog who won't draw the line its obviously a judgment call. Ah the joys of working dogs.. they'd run into the ground if you let them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 I know PF. I also know when I took her to the chiro recently he said that she had such a high pain threshold that she could potentially carry a fair injury and you wouldn't even notice. Suppose its not entirely unheard of for the breed but that coupled with Ptolomy's experience with Lexi who I know to be ball obsessed to the same level made me start to rethink what I was doing before anything serious occured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I do understand. My ACD was just like that - frightened the life out of me once when she actually stopped panting on a very hot day after running herself silly Fortunately, a good hose-down managed to sort her out pretty quickly. As intense as my Dal is and as much as he loves running he doesn't push himself beyond what he can cope with and it's easy to see when he's getting tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I agree on the moderation front and I guess my question was where is the line between moderation and excess with a dog who won't draw the line its obviously a judgment call. Ah the joys of working dogs.. they'd run into the ground if you let them. Yeah Jake has a hint of kelpie in amongst the SBT and would run and run till he fell down, till his nose was red raw all for the love of the ball. I'd get home from a massive walk and he'd be like, now who is up for a game of football I should add I have now discovered he has mild HD, whether or not he was born with that or whether it is from ball chasing I will never know. He has never really shown any signs of lameness (bar his sookiness about bindies) or pain, I discovered it coincidentally through x-rays but it certainly has made me think twice about the way I exercise him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 As others have said - I think moderation is the key - don't do it all the time, but if your dog loves it, I'd rather them live a happy life doing what they love than in a ball of cotton wool (JMO) so we do lots of ball throwing into the rivers and such as that avoids the twisting and turning. We do one dog at a time and also using balls with ropes and such as these don't bounce as high nor do they encourage the twisting/ turning as by the time the dogs get there, the ball has already stopped.... sometimes I hold the dogs back. But every once in a while I'll let them loose and they can chase for a while just with reckless abanton. Let them have fun I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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