kobblyness Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 What is possibly better than bones? The knobs on cupboard doors seem to do a good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The knobs on cupboard doors seem to do a good job K - .... I know what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 hes probably paid to advertise the bloody premium food!! some vets are paid by companies like the "scientific diet" to try to get their clients to change over to them Could you please tell us how you know this. I would be very interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) Diva, was it Mark Lawrie. He is the president of the AVA, as in, the Australian Vet Assosciation. He may lose credibility in our eyes but with a title like that, the public listens. Just did a bit of research, he is also the chief vet for the RSPCA. http://avacms.eseries.hengesystems.com.au/...;ContentID=5737 Cris, my vet openly told me they are sponsored by Hills? Edited January 26, 2009 by Just Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) hes probably paid to advertise the bloody premium food!! some vets are paid by companies like the "scientific diet" to try to get their clients to change over to them What crap. Vets are NOT payed to advertise their food, unless of course the vet is working for the company as their consulting vet. Selling food in a clinic is no different to selling drugs. Vets get nothing but the retail profit (which is very little) for selling food. Sponsorship doesn't necessarily mean money, Midol. We have a sign on our wall that says we sell Science Diet, and in return, they supply us with a portion of our food for boarders. We don't get paid for it. Edited January 26, 2009 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Diva, was it Mark Lawrie. He is the president of the AVA, as in, the Australian Vet Assosciation. He may lose credibility in our eyes but with a title like that, the public listens.Just did a bit of research, he is also the chief vet for the RSPCA. http://avacms.eseries.hengesystems.com.au/...;ContentID=5737 Cris, my vet openly told me they are sponsored by Hills? I have never been involved with any Vet clinic that has had an arrangement as such, maybe the company is simply supplying food for the hospital cases? None I have ever worked in have ever had any kick back from the food companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Diva, was it Mark Lawrie. He is the president of the AVA, as in, the Australian Vet Assosciation. He may lose credibility in our eyes but with a title like that, the public listens.Just did a bit of research, he is also the chief vet for the RSPCA. http://avacms.eseries.hengesystems.com.au/...;ContentID=5737 Cris, my vet openly told me they are sponsored by Hills? I have never been involved with any Vet clinic that has had an arrangement as such, maybe the company is simply supplying food for the hospital cases? None I have ever worked in have ever had any kick back from the food companies. Me neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) Diva, was it Mark Lawrie. He is the president of the AVA, as in, the Australian Vet Assosciation. He may lose credibility in our eyes but with a title like that, the public listens. No, it was a local Canberra vet. He usually sounds OK so this took me by suprise. I understand there are risks, but I prefer the pros and cons to be explained about any diet when talking to the general public, not the 'the profession has now decided the only way is this way..' approach. After all, dogs were eating bones long before the vet profession existed. Edited January 26, 2009 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 hes probably paid to advertise the bloody premium food!! some vets are paid by companies like the "scientific diet" to try to get their clients to change over to them Selling food in a clinic is no different to selling drugs. Vets get nothing but the retail profit (which is very little) for selling food. So they make money by selling us food... More profits for them... More money. There are plenty of dry food brands better than Hills and other brands vets stock, if they really wanted to supply the best diets they'd go out and sell those foods. Diva, makes sense. In a way I can understand why the vet said dry is better than raw, as you do need a little knowledge to feed raw appropriately but the bone issue got to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vehs Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 It's all money making... I'm more than happy to see my vet regarding broken bones and emergencies, but I don't really pay too much attention to their advice regarding vaccinations, yearly heartworms and especially not diet. Sure the 'average' owner's dog may benefit from going off PAL to Hills, but I'm very happy with how I care for my boy, I put a lot of time into researching and considering options for him. Re bones, he's got great teeth, gets a bone everyday -6yr old very minor staining on the top of his canines which is difficult to reduce with bones as he's a big dog. I look after an 11yr old Goldie with fantastic teeth (bar that minor staining) and he gets those commercial denta bones... and eats dry food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Kuntz Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I will give you my perspective. As a specialist surgeon, I do not sell dog food and I don't do dentistry. Vets obviously do make a profit from selling dog food (markup, obviously) and from doing dentistries, but most I know would not let that tarnish their recommendations. My concern with giving bones is that I have done surgery on dozens of dogs who have had bones stuck in the oesophagus, with universally high bills and variable success rates. The bones that get stuck, granted, are usually cooked bones and are of the perfect size to go part of the way down. I would only feed bones to my dogs that are either way too big to be swallowed (beef femurs) or too small to get stuck (chicken necks, etc). Comments??? Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I don't feed cooked bones. I feed a raw diet with plenty of raw bones (chicken and larger ones) but my dogs STILL need periodic dental work. So much for the "dentists sell kibble cos it doesn't clean teeth" conspiracy theory. :wink: Tartar build up is on their front teeth only and my vet said that short of providing suitable prey for them to regularly tear apart, some tartar build up on canines and incisors is inevitable. As I will not buy whole carcasses and chuck them in the back yard, it looks like some dental work will be necessary. Fortunately, a clean every few years does for all but the toy poodle who needs her teeth cleaned daily by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 I will give you my perspective. As a specialist surgeon, I do not sell dog food and I don't do dentistry. Vets obviously do make a profit from selling dog food (markup, obviously) and from doing dentistries, but most I know would not let that tarnish their recommendations.My concern with giving bones is that I have done surgery on dozens of dogs who have had bones stuck in the oesophagus, with universally high bills and variable success rates. The bones that get stuck, granted, are usually cooked bones and are of the perfect size to go part of the way down. I would only feed bones to my dogs that are either way too big to be swallowed (beef femurs) or too small to get stuck (chicken necks, etc). Comments??? Charles So in a way, such a recommendation could be considered a "cover my arse" thing (and I have no real issue with that) as he obviously wouldn't be able to explain it adequetely over a radio show. Perhaps a better response from him would have been to consult your vet. PF: I don't think vets would recommend against bones so they have to clean teeth, they are vets because they like animals... But I couldn't figure out his motives for saying this. I do think they blanketly recommend dry food because it's probably better than the crap 99% of people feed their dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 knowledge to feed raw appropriately but the bone issue got to me. Me too. I've heard plenty of vets recommend dry before but they still suggested adding a suitable bone from time to time for teeth. This fellow made it sound like any bones at all were a recipe for certain destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 As I will not buy whole carcasses and chuck them in the back yard. LOL. I do. Rabbits and chickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 (edited) hes probably paid to advertise the bloody premium food!! some vets are paid by companies like the "scientific diet" to try to get their clients to change over to them Selling food in a clinic is no different to selling drugs. Vets get nothing but the retail profit (which is very little) for selling food. So they make money by selling us food... More profits for them... More money. There are plenty of dry food brands better than Hills and other brands vets stock, if they really wanted to supply the best diets they'd go out and sell those foods. Diva, makes sense. In a way I can understand why the vet said dry is better than raw, as you do need a little knowledge to feed raw appropriately but the bone issue got to me. Hills is popular on Vets shelves because they make an excellent range of specialist diets for animals that have medical issues. The only Hills we sell is for medical reasons, other than that we sell Pro plan, Advance, Eukanuba, Royal Canin and until recently Eagle Pack. Our hospital animals and boarders are all fed Pro Plan. We do not push any food unless there is a medical problem. Yes, many problems can be managed with home made diets but OWNER COMPLIANCE is a huge issue. Edited January 27, 2009 by Crisovar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 And you really think the majority of vets are like yours in regards to pushing food? Diva, thinking back, I don't think this guys comments were covering his arse either as he said they are ineffective rather than dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 And you really think the majority of vets are like yours in regards to pushing food?Diva, thinking back, I don't think this guys comments were covering his arse either as he said they are ineffective rather than dangerous. Actually all the ones I have worked with over the last 30 years have been, yes. Stocking food and trying to keep up with customers swapping and changing, and keeping up with supply of imported products, and most top range foods are imported, is a PITA. There are still plenty of Vets out there who don't look at marketing products as high priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 And you really think the majority of vets are like yours in regards to pushing food?Diva, thinking back, I don't think this guys comments were covering his arse either as he said they are ineffective rather than dangerous. Actually all the ones I have worked with over the last 30 years have been, yes. Perhaps a poll would be in order. I was under the impression that most vets push food. My vet doesn't, but I was given the impression that most do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 (edited) Crisovar: Are you not selling Eagle Pack because it's hard to stock i.e. supply? Or other reasons? Just curious to know as I'm a consumer but have never stocked it in a clinic I've worked at. Edited January 27, 2009 by Staff'n'Toller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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