Exercise

[dogon]

Now that Rodney's been vaccinated we can take him out and about. He loves going out and so far performs excellently on the lead!

So...how much is too much exercise for a 12 1/2 old cocker pup?

Since we've had him he's been playing in our yard which is half paving and half grass. He's had to navigate two steps and there was never an alternative to this other than me picking him up and carrying him - something I didn't want to do.

On the walks I've taken him on so far he's probably been walking for about 15 minutes but we've been out longer so I do carry him part of the way - especially on pavement areas. Saying that I do try to get him to walk on the grass when we are heading to the dog park. Sometimes I have driven to the dog park but that's just not as much fun!! :rolleyes:

The thing is that he loves being out and about and I'd like him to be the sort of dog I take most places with me.

I know he should be getting only 15 minutes of solid walking a day - for his age - but does this include running around in the yard too?

How strict should I be? Obviously I don't want joint problems to occur in the future.

Interested in DOLer opinions - cheers.

[Danois]

12.5 week you mean?

If he had a 12 week injection then you should not be taking him to dog park until 2 weeks after the vaccination as the immunity has not fully developed.

Personally at that age I would be having no more than 10-15 mins of free play at a time and this can be several times a day. Certainly not 'forced' exercise of walking on lead.

A puppy will not necessarily show signs of tiredness at an early enough stage as they are running on excitement - I know my puppy would play for several hours without showing signs if he got the chance.

Get lots of lead work in now while he performs cos it can go out the window when they get more confidence!

Edited January 24, 2009 by Danois

[dogon]

12.5 week you mean?

err....yes, oops!

Thanks for your input Jesskah and danois. It seems that opinions vary a bit! so it's a matter of making sensible choices then.

Waiting 2 weeks after the vacc? :rolleyes: that seems a little over the top! I've never heard that. My vet has given me the go ahead to let him out right away since I live in an area that has good vacc rates. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

15 minutes of free play? Then I've blown it already ....also the walks are NOT 'forced' - he loves every minute of it

ETA: danois, I just saw that you added that info about pups not showing signs of tiredness due to over excitement. Great advice - I'll keep my eye on this definitely as maybe I'm interpreting his happiness to be walking as eagerness. Food for thought

Edited January 24, 2009 by dogon

[poochmad]

I too, wouldn't be walking your dog anywhere outside your house until 2 weeks after the vaccination as Danois said. Even though your vet has given the go ahead, I think it's too much of a risk, IMHO.

Regarding walking on the lead for 15 mins and playing in the backyard, sounds to me that those times are fine. If your pup is tired he will show it, lying down, walking slower, etc. Most pups at that age sleep a lot and play a lot. If you had young kids that were constantly waking the puppy up to play with it, then I would be concerned.

Just make sure that when your puppy is asleep, you leave it be, don't wake it up as puppies really need their rest.

The most important thing to do is protect your puppy's bones as they are growing at a rapid rate and you can end up with hip displaysia if not careful. Don't allow him to play with larger dogs (unless both dogs are on the lead and the big dog lies down, but supervise as a young pup can be quickly injured), don't let him slip and slide on tiled or wooen floors (we didn't know this unti after we'd done it) and don't let him run up and downstairs. Until he's 6 months at least, I would be carrying him up and down. Even after this age, I wouldn't allow him to go up and down on a regular basis. (If you don't have stairs no problem.)

Your breeder can give you a lot of advice on what and what not to do to protect your puppy's bones.

ETA: while the 2 weeks take effect for the vaccination to kick in, use the opportunity to take your puppy to cafes, parks, shops etc and hold him in your arms. You'll get lots of attention from people wanting to pat him and he'll get great exposure to different sights, sounds and people.

Edited January 24, 2009 by poochmad

[VJB]

Yep, I wouldn't be taking him to dog park yet either. Better to wait the two weeks than risk something horrible happening. Puppies of this age really only need the exercise they

give themselves. It won't be long before he's old enough to have a little more..... it goes really fast.

[megan_]

plenty of people have responded to the exercise bit, so I'll respond to the vaccination part.

There are differing opinions on this so you just need to do what you're comfortable with.

IMO, and in the opinion of every trainer I have ever met on talked to "online", you need to get your dog out of the house and socialised before 14 weeks. Between 10 - 16 weeks is a critical sociliasation period and by not taking him out you run the risk of having an unsocialised, fearful dog. Of course, there is a greater risk of infection outside of your home, but I'd take the risk of infection over the risk of a poorly socialised dog any day.

This means taking him to meet dogs that you know are vaccinated (and good with puppies). Inviting people of different ages and races over to your house and taking him to visit them too (ie he needs to be outside his comfort zone). Take him for drives, to shops, to puppy school etc etc.

If you do a search on "vaccinations" and "Erny" (a trainer who uses this site), you'll find more info.

[poochmad]

yeh i agree with megan. You want your pup to be able to cope with going "anywhere and everywhere".

But as for Danios. Yes a pup wont neccesarily have a good tiredness sign when over excited. But generally "over excitement" in my view on walks is not encouraged, just like over excitement with meeting new people. So of course "excitement" does need to be taken into account, but of course this is something that each dog owner should learn to pick up on with there dogs, just like "toileting signs" and signs of "anxiety" etc.

Being with our dogs so much we should trust our judgment as to what is too much or too little by what the dog teaches us.

As for not going out with vaccinations, there can sometimes be just as much risk as staying home. There are risks in everything.

Megan and Jesskah, you can still take your dog out in this crucial socialisation time period - just in your arms...it's only for 2 weeks...

ETA: Just think of it as extra cuddling...

Edited January 25, 2009 by poochmad

[dogon]

I respect the views of all of you and thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I guess I'm one of those that has taken the 'risk' in favour of socialisation. My puppy school trainer suggested that pup needed to get out given a few worrying behaviours towards other pups (growling, shying away and snapping) Since being out I can see a new found confidence in him and he now seems a lot more relaxed when dogs approach him. Of course I'm always careful and have a watchful eye on him, and other dogs, at all times.

Today we spent the day at a friends place and had a few short walks ( about 10 minutes each) that seemed to really knacker him. I used the time wisely to teach him not to pull on the lead which has seemed to work so far.

Poochmad; yes we have floor boards and he does like to run and slide so I'll definitely begin to discourage this.

Thanks again everybody

[Danois]

You can still socialise a puppy without going to high risk areas such as dog parks, areas with large numbers of dogs, pet shops and the like. Do things like playdates with other puppies in your own backyard or a friend's, puppy pre-school and the like.

Walking on a lead at that age is what you call 'forced' exercise - its not a case of enjoyment or not - it is simply the opposite of 'free' play.

[huski]

You can still socialise a puppy without going to high risk areas such as dog parks, areas with large numbers of dogs, pet shops and the like. Do things like playdates with other puppies in your own backyard or a friend's, puppy pre-school and the like.

Walking on a lead at that age is what you call 'forced' exercise - its not a case of enjoyment or not - it is simply the opposite of 'free' play.

What Danois said - I take my pups out and about from the day they get home at 8 weeks but you do it sensibly. I wouldn't be taking them out much when they are in their first fear period (or if I did I would be incredibly careful) because any bad experience at this time can be damaging for the life of the dog.

I would never, ever take a puppy to a dog park especially as the OP's pup is nearing the age for it's first fear period. I would stay well clear of dogs parks with a pup (unless it is for a DOL meet), the risk is not worth it IMO

ETA: Dogon I would suggest reading this article to give you an idea of when your pup will be in his fear periods etc:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=117592

Edited January 25, 2009 by huski

[Danois]

I was at pet shop today and there was a girl there with a 13 week old SWF on lead. I was chatting with her while they sorted out a problem with the tills and she confirmed she'd not long had the 12 week injection - I commented that I would be cautious letting her puppy on the ground in places like petshops as it is parvo season etc. She said her vet advised her that she could take puppy out straight away

[huski]

I was at pet shop today and there was a girl there with a 13 week old SWF on lead. I was chatting with her while they sorted out a problem with the tills and she confirmed she'd not long had the 12 week injection - I commented that I would be cautious letting her puppy on the ground in places like petshops as it is parvo season etc. She said her vet advised her that she could take puppy out straight away

I can top that in shock factor - I went the local Pet Cafe (doesn't sell animals) and a young girl came in with her mother, carrying a tiny baby puppy... I asked how old it was - 8 weeks - she told me they'd had it for a week and a half already

I am all for socialisation and taking your pup out and about so it can have lots of new and exiting experiences, but it is a balance between doing it sensibly and doing it in a way that throws caution to the wind. Whilst I understand all the risks about parvo there is no way I would keep a puppy at home until it was fully vaccinated. By the time you got it out and about it would be in its fear period and any bad experience could scar it for life

[dogon]

. She said her vet advised her that she could take puppy out straight away

Yup, that's what my vet said! I guess she bases it on experience and university training. Of course there are people out there who have had rotten experiences with diseases and have watched their dogs die as a result of early exposure. I agree with huski, I'm prepared to cautiously take that risk and expose our pup for the sake of safe and closely monitored socialisation opportunities. If this choice offends people then so be it.

At the end of the day dog owners can only make choices based on the information they can get. This forum has a variety of opinions, which is great and the reason why I've made this thread, so now I can make a choice based on what I have decided is reasonable for my dog. If an experienced trainer, one that sees problem behaviours all the time, tells me that my dog would benefit from venturing out from the confines of a home environment, then it seems to me to be the right choice to do so. Parvo, for example, I am told can be brought in via peoples shoes or dropped by birds into your back yard. We take risks every day and our job is to navigate a way safely through those risks.

In regards to fear stages I have read that sticky posted by k9 and it's very helpful. However I've read elsewhere (not sure where so I cant reference it)that a fear stage can start from 8 weeks to 11 weeks and then start again at 16 weeks. So once again as a dog owner I need to navigate my way through information that varies and make sensible decisions based on what I 'think' I know. To be on the safe side I'm treating puppyhood as a period of potential fear. That way I'm always alert to possible events that could trigger fear responses. Isnt this what any reasonable dog owner should do?

Regarding information on exercise - the original purpose of this thread - this is something that I'll take very seriously. I know cockers can be prone to hip problems so I'll do what I can to minimise joint damage while he's young.

[huski]

Yup, that's what my vet said! I guess she bases it on experience and university training. Of course there are people out there who have had rotten experiences with diseases and have watched their dogs die as a result of early exposure. I agree with huski, I'm prepared to cautiously take that risk and expose our pup for the sake of safe and closely monitored socialisation opportunities. If this choice offends people then so be it.

At the end of the day dog owners can only make choices based on the information they can get. This forum has a variety of opinions, which is great and the reason why I've made this thread, so now I can make a choice based on what I have decided is reasonable for my dog. If an experienced trainer, one that sees problem behaviours all the time, tells me that my dog would benefit from venturing out from the confines of a home environment, then it seems to me to be the right choice to do so. Parvo, for example, I am told can be brought in via peoples shoes or dropped by birds into your back yard. We take risks every day and our job is to navigate a way safely through those risks.

In regards to fear stages I have read that sticky posted by k9 and it's very helpful. However I've read elsewhere (not sure where so I cant reference it)that a fear stage can start from 8 weeks to 11 weeks and then start again at 16 weeks. So once again as a dog owner I need to navigate my way through information that varies and make sensible decisions based on what I 'think' I know. To be on the safe side I'm treating puppyhood as a period of potential fear. That way I'm always alert to possible events that could trigger fear responses. Isnt this what any reasonable dog owner should do?

Regarding information on exercise - the original purpose of this thread - this is something that I'll take very seriously. I know cockers can be prone to hip problems so I'll do what I can to minimise joint damage while he's young.

Dogon you will find that in all aspects of dog ownership, there are lots of 'wrongs' and 'rights' - as the saying goes, the only thing two trainers will agree on is that the third is wrong. One article by someone on the internet would not be enough to convince me that several reputable trainers and behaviourists are wrong. I do have a lot of faith in K9 Force's experience and training methods, and I know a lot of trainers and behaviourists who share his opinion on fear stages. It is not something I would muck around with by exposing my puppy to places like a dog park, where anything could happen.

I would be concerned if any trainer thought it was ok for a baby puppy to go to a dog park, as a trainer with a good knowledge of canine behaviour should recognise the potential dangers of socialising your puppy with strange and often uncontrollable dogs.

I would also be reserved when it came to letting my puppy play with others (and adult dogs) in terms of exercise, as I would worry that any play that is too rough could damage their joints.

ETA: I think it is important to note different fear stages as it does impact on how our dogs learn. I know certain stages in my puppy's life are better times to learn than others. It is not an exaggeration when people say a bad experience in a fear period can impact a dog for LIFE - my dog was attacked in his fear stage, and 6 years later still suffers from fear aggression. Trust me when I say it is something you want to approach with extreme caution.

Edited January 25, 2009 by huski

[dogon]

I hear you huski which is why I exercise caution at every turn! Today I'm not taking pup to a friends place because her dog has been 'known' to be a 'bit' aggresive with other dogs but 'probably wont' be with a puppy. Not worth it

Thanks

[huski]

I hear you huski which is why I exercise caution at every turn! Today I'm not taking pup to a friends place because her dog has been 'known' to be a 'bit' aggresive with other dogs but 'probably wont' be with a puppy. Not worth it

Thanks

No worries Was just a bit concerned when I read in your OP that you've been taking him to the dog park

I've just had so many bad experiences with them I have learned my lesson and will never ever use them again (except for DOL meets where I know the dogs are friendly )

[dogon]

No worries Was just a bit concerned when I read in your OP that you've been taking him to the dog park

I've just had so many bad experiences with them I have learned my lesson and will never ever use them again (except for DOL meets where I know the dogs are friendly )

The dog park I have been to (only three times, mind you) has been nothing but excellent. I researched the place by visiting it before hand. I chose the one I am taking him two because a friend takes her dog and has NEVER EVER had an issue with her dog in the park nor has she ever witnessed a dog attack or irresponsible behaviour from dog owners there.....and she's been going every day for several years. I did visit another dog park in the area but decided against it purely based on observation and the amount of dog droppings left behind far more than in the one that I use now.

All the dog owners have all been extremely respectful and always place their dogs on leash or hold their dogs when approaching. As a consequence pup has never been rushed, pummeled or attacked. This is NOT to say that it isn't possible but I never let pup of the lead and won't do until I'm confident of his recall and his confidence. If I ever have a bad experience then I will have known that I did everything in my power to avoid it BUT that I did it in the name of healthy socialisation requirements. I'm not naive, just realistic

I have DOL to thank for helping me to understand the risks and benefits of anything we choose as dog owners.

[puggy_puggy]

What every happend puppies 3rd vaccinations, at 16 weeks, and not taking them out and about till then?

Has the vaccination scheduled changed?

[poodlefan]

What every happend puppies 3rd vaccinations, at 16 weeks, and not taking them out and about till then?

Has the vaccination scheduled changed?

My vet said that a 16 week vaccs wasn't necessary and that immunity would be in place from 72 hours after the second.

[dogon]

For what it's worth I really think that vacc info re how many and when to take pups out can vary. I talk to people, discuss it with my vet, I read about it here on DOL and no matter what, opinions always range from cautious to relaxed with everywhere in between. I'm not having a go at anybody btw, it just seems to be my experience.

Edited January 27, 2009 by dogon