LorenaMM Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hey everyone, I have been doing some research into crate training and obviously there are a lot of benefits. But I am wondering if it is really necessary ? When we do get our pup, we were planning on setting up its night time bed in a small bathroom (toilet & sink really) downstairs. The pup will go in there for the night and hopefully will either go on newspaper or let us know when its toilet time. I understand that pups won't soil their bedding so that is why i am hoping the bathroom will do instead of a crate. Crate training does sound like a great idea but what happens when it is time for the pup to sleep outside in its kennel ? Is it difficult to get a dog to sleep in a kennel or is it the same as encouraging it to sleep in a crate ? We don't like the idea of a dog sleeping in the house. The pup will eventually be an outside dog which will only come inside when we are home. We have a cat and don't want her being harassed by a pup all day The idea is they will initially only have supervised contact till the pup learns that the cat is not a play thing and the cat learns the dog is not out to ruin her life ! Sorry for sounding naieve but this will be our first dog. We are a bit clueless in this area so any help will be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacee Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dont take this the wrong way, but if you were purchasing a pup from me and you didnt like the dog sleeping inside then I wouldnt sell you a puppy. My dogs are part of my family and when I home puppies they only go to families that will also treat their new pup as part of their family. Fair enough if you are not home they can be outside but when you are home I would expect them to be there with you and also sleep inside. Crate training is very important whether it be for example - to help with toilet training, if you need to later on lock up/secure your dog due to an accident, a secure place inside when needed and so on. The puppy will also need allot of socialising with your cat if you ever expect them to get along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevafollo Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 why put the dog outside when its older why not just crate train it then it can always sleep in its crate inside the house? All of our dogs sleep all night in their crates no dramas, for us its a saftey thing, for them its a comfort thing, they love there crates and blankies ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Is crate training necessary? Absolutely not. Does it help with toilet training, travel, and containment when your pup can't be supervised? Absolutely. If you want your dog to learn never to toilet inside, then allowing it to toilet on tiles because they are easy to clean is going to derail the process. Start your toilet training by taking you pup to the place where it will toilet as an adult and don't allow it to toilet anywhere else. Baby puppies have limited ability to control their body temperature. Bathrooms, laundries and other concrete and tiled areas are heat sinks - they can be very cold. You will have to be careful not to allow your puppy to become chilled in such an area. If you want your puppy to live in harmony with your cats, teach it what is and is not acceptable behaviour around them. My guess is that you will get plenty of feline assistance with that process. Baby gates and dog doors can be used to allow your dog access to the house but give your cats a safe area when you can't supervise. My old cat happily shared the bed in front of the heater with my dogs on cold days. However, if you want your dog to sleep outside, the sooner it begins to do so, the better. Can I recommend (as other DOLers would) that you read this website - you will find some excellent advice about the methods you can use to successfully integrate a pup into your home. Edited January 22, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) on top of what PF has said, crate training sets a dog up for a lot of things. car trips, vet trips, even staying at a kennel I have been told my dogs are one of the best at the vets. the only time they cry or bark is when they need to goto the toilet, in the car they are no problems, and when they are at a kennel, they are a breeze. (i work in a kennel, my dogs just get told "goto bed" and they run to their kennels for the night ) my crates are set up in the spare room, right now one of the dogs is alseep next to me, the other has put herself to bed in her crate. I have 3 cats and 2 dogs, the dogs are outside during the day when i am at work, and inside when i am home. 2 of the cats get along with both dogs, the other is a kitten and one of my dogs is taking his time to get used to him, so they are apart if i cant watch them 100% i would never have my dogs outside at night, and both of them love their crates ETA i even tried to crate train the kitten - shit head could fit between the bars and kept getting out :D Edited January 22, 2009 by Terrorbull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucylotto Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hey everyone,I have been doing some research into crate training and obviously there are a lot of benefits. But I am wondering if it is really necessary ? When we do get our pup, we were planning on setting up its night time bed in a small bathroom (toilet & sink really) downstairs. The pup will go in there for the night and hopefully will either go on newspaper or let us know when its toilet time. I understand that pups won't soil their bedding so that is why i am hoping the bathroom will do instead of a crate. Crate training does sound like a great idea but what happens when it is time for the pup to sleep outside in its kennel ? Is it difficult to get a dog to sleep in a kennel or is it the same as encouraging it to sleep in a crate ? We don't like the idea of a dog sleeping in the house. The pup will eventually be an outside dog which will only come inside when we are home. We have a cat and don't want her being harassed by a pup all day The idea is they will initially only have supervised contact till the pup learns that the cat is not a play thing and the cat learns the dog is not out to ruin her life ! Sorry for sounding naieve but this will be our first dog. We are a bit clueless in this area so any help will be appreciated. The crate is a good idea if only for toilet training. I personally don't use it other than to sleep at night when trying to get the pup thru the nite without having to go to toilet. As pup grows so will bladder and eventually will get thru the nite. If the pup is in another room how will you know when it wants to go? You need to identify when it needs to go or toilet time it every 30mins or so to be able to 'teach' it want you want it to do and this can be as simple as a couple of weeks or a couple of months. But if it goes on paper most of time will be paper traned and also you won't be trained either to pick up on pups signs which is important for when it is inside with you and then you both train each other so eventually pup lets you know when it wants outside. Re the bathrrom...The pup may not soil its bedding but will soil 1 metre from it... The cat will be sorted very quickly and cat will be able to get away from pup easily and will probably end up good friends with pup if socialised well with it and not isolated from it. I have x2 puppies and x2 cats and it has't been a problem this time around or ever and have always had both cats and dogs. The cat being there first is an advantage as pup will grow up thinking cat being around as normal. I had never heard of 'crate training' until this forum and I used the principle for both my recent puppy additions and it worked so well. I had pup next to me when really young so I could hear it stirring and know to get up in the nite and take out to toilet. I loved not gettng up every morning to laundry/bathroom covered in soiled newspaper that the pup had invariable played allover and spread all over for me to clean up before I went to work! (like I had done all my life with new pups prior) Good luck with your new addition and which ever way you go with all this it has to fit in with your household...... it is such an exciting and lovely time ! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I have 2 Burmese cats in a very small house and have very successfully introduced a rather hyper Dally pup to the household. The crate has been wonderful....although I only used an open crate in the laundry initially. The cats and Zig are 100% indoors, whether we are home or not. When we are out (not for long periods fortunately), Ziggy is usually in the laundry....sleeping I might add I have guided and praised and gently corrected so that Zig (and the cats) understand what is acceptable and what is not. One of my girls, Lilly, can be a bit grumpy with him but only when she is hungry or he is being a real git......Zig thinks this is funny so, depending on where the fault lies (trust me, sometimes Lilly is very naughty!), they get corrected. More often than not I can see it coming and split them up until dinner time or simply do some training with Zig. Miss Bronte really does like him, I think, and often tries to encourage him to play.....which is quite funny. I even left Zig on his own in the house with the cats for the first time this week and he was fine....he's now 2 and it has taken some work, but it's really been worth it He's also been a rather challenging young dog so it probably wouldn't take as long for some others. Zig just loves all my foster kittens too....although you do have to watch those clumsy paws Zig & Darcy Zig's tail & Emma Zig with Isabella & Catherine This really sums up the state of our household.... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaves Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 This really sums up the state of our household.... :D Mine too As for the OPs question , not necessary but helps heaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saram Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 We have crate trained our previous dog and these two pups and I was pretty skeptical at first also but once youe SEE how the system works it is fabulous! Not just for toilet traing but also great for quiet time when you want the pup to settle down or need to restain it so it doesn't destroy your house It would also be a great way to allow the cat to meet the dog on it's own terms as the pup would be confined and the cat could approach it. We transitioned out Ridgeback to a kennel on the front verandah after crate training very easily. We simply moved the crate from our bedroom towards the door a couple of metres each night until finally it was outside and we left it open once we went to bed, - no probs. We then introduced the kennel with lots of tasty treats hidden in there and the rest is history. We plan on transitioning our little boys outside two eventually but now it is much easier to keep them crated as it stops us from worrying about what mischief they have gotten up to while we were sleeping (for eg our ridgy used to do things like knock over the garbage bin and steal dirty nappies :-) and dig up and eat all our plants, chew on the walls etc - not fun. Crate training is much easier and cost effective (when you take into account all the damage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 If you want your puppy to live in harmony with your cats, teach it what is and is not acceptable behaviour around them. My guess is that you will get plenty of feline assistance with that process. Ain't that the truth :D Zig's crate....the night before he arrived... Zig's old bed... Zig's new crate... Zig's new toy... Zig's new bed... You get the idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie_Pup Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 To the OP, you'd be hard pressed to find a DOL member that doesn't support, or is totally against, crate training. It is just that good! No its not necessary. But my gosh it will make your entire life with your dog 100 times easier!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I have not found a better way to help my dog get through the night without needing to pee (since 9 weeks of age), assist with car travel, stays at the vet, sleeping in unfamiliar territory, training in general. Like a PP, all Halle needs to be told is "in your crate" and, well, in she goes! Never had a problem with it-she loves it Just chilling out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 They are not necessary but are very handy. Having them crate trained means that I can take the dogs easily with me on holidays, even to relative's houses who don't like dogs (given permission of course) as they can be contained somewhere out of the way when not being exercised. Also having a breed that is prone to be noisy at night due to wildlife and other noises, crating them in the house means that everyone is able to have a peaceful night. Among the other things mentioned such as getting them used to vets, groomers, kennels, dog daycares, for shows and trials. Plus the dogs like them, I sometimes come out to find Diesel curled up in one of the Kelpie's crates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 As someone who has never used a crate.. and has had puppies in the house.. not necessary, no.. PROVIDING you have an idea of what you are doing with regards toilet training and how much freedom to allow a pup. I do think crate training has been helpful to a lot of people and dogs on this forum ,tho!! I would also wonder why you have the dog with you then put it outside to sleep? My dog spends a lot of time outside doing doggy stuff with the others during th eday, but sleeps indoors. Dogs outside are the ones who will get bored, and bark at possums/cats/odd noises. Dogs outside will probably annoy the neighbours. Dogs outside are not going to be much help if someone breaks into your house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorenaMM Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dont take this the wrong way, but if you were purchasing a pup from me and you didnt like the dog sleeping inside then I wouldnt sell you a puppy. My dogs are part of my family and when I home puppies they only go to families that will also treat their new pup as part of their family. Fair enough if you are not home they can be outside but when you are home I would expect them to be there with you and also sleep inside.Crate training is very important whether it be for example - to help with toilet training, if you need to later on lock up/secure your dog due to an accident, a secure place inside when needed and so on. The puppy will also need allot of socialising with your cat if you ever expect them to get along. Legacee, of course the puppy is going to be part of the family. We have been thinking about getting a pup for years but the time has never been right due to financials and work situations. No we feel we are ready to introduce another fur child to our family :D We have a fairly new, open plan house which can't be sectioned off with baby gates etc. To be realistic, the dog needs to stay outside whilst we are at work and will be allowed inside when we are home. I have done a lot of reading into crate training and it does sound like a fantastic idea. I just don't know if hubby will like the idea of having a large cage sitting inside the house Good point about the bathroom being messed up. Of course the pup would have its own bed to sleep on but I hadn't thought about it playing with the paper during the night Thankyou to everyone for your thoughts on this issue. You can do as much article reading as you want about dogs but there is nothing better than talking to real people who have experienced puppyhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin-Genie Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 As someone who has never used a crate.. and has had puppies in the house..not necessary, no.. PROVIDING you have an idea of what you are doing with regards toilet training and how much freedom to allow a pup. Totally agree. I have never used crates for my dogs. They are perfectly toilet trained. They are inside dogs. However, they have been taught that they will have full access to the house only when we are home. Otherwise they stay at the lower level. They are also used to staying at the lower level if we have guests that aren't comfortable with dogs or we need to work. But otherwise, they spend all their time with us. They are also excellent in the car. So no, I wouldn't say crate training is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 You are getting a Japanese Spitz right? They are only small dogs, and the crate they need will only be little. The wire crates, because they are see through, in my opinion give the appearance of taking up less space. (I have both types, but now prefer the wire ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 You are aiming for the wrong breed if you only want it to be inside when you are. Would the breeder you are buying the dog from agree to having it live outside 365 nights a year? Japanese Spitz are people dogs, and the crate will be fairly small. It only has to be large enough for the dog to sleep in not run circles So if you cover it with a little towel or something it wont be that prominent in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 doe the breeder now the jap spitz will be living outside?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnauzer Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) I don't use crates for my dogs either. I toilet train them to go outside and they have the full run of the house, access via a dog door. With a new puppy I would get up once or twice at night to take them out to the toilet, until they are old enough to hold on. All my dogs (including rescues) have been easily trained this way. I believe that you start as you are going to finish. I don't quite follow your logic that the puppy will be allowed in the house when you are at home and then outside at night. I also would not rehome a dog to someone who will make it sleep outside. Edited January 23, 2009 by schnauzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorenaMM Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 I don't use crates for my dogs either. I toilet train them to go outside and they have the full run of the house, access via a dog door. With a new puppy I would get up once or twice at night to take them out to the toilet, until they are old enough to hold on. All my dogs (including rescues) have been easily trained this way. I believe that you start as you are going to finish. I don't quite follow your logic that the puppy will be allowed in the house when you are at home and then outside at night. :rolleyes: I also would not rehome a dog to someone who will make it sleep outside. I really don't understand why everyone is getting so shirty about a dog sleeping outside. It is a dog !! Humans run the house not the dog. I am beginning to think joining this forum was a bad idea. I came looking for advice and all I seem to be receiving is abuse from some people. Thankyou to everyone who has given structured, helpful advice without being nasty. Everyone raises their pets in their own way and in the way which is suitable for their situation. Yes there a lot of passionate dog owners out there but please consider everyone has a different situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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