Nekhbet Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 try having a baby malinois on the back step with a raggy dirty pigs head like 'awwwww come on mum I need to eat this on the carpet' ;) poochmad everyone has problems and those that say they have NEVER had an issue are fibbing or own a toy dog dogs will be dogs. I still have holes in the backyard the dogue starts and the rotty finishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) How nice it is to hear from a professional trainer that you have the same problems as 'us wee' people! Thanks for sharing Erny, you've made me feel a whole lot better. Hey! All pups are pups. Trainers' dogs aren't the robots some people think they might be (not that you suggested this). They still try on behaviours. Our advantage is that perhaps we 'spot' it that bit quicker and are able to efficiently respond to it that bit quicker. And therefore they might not try on as many 'behaviours' or as often. (Or perhaps we do, but we don't need to ask what to do about it so you don't hear about it. Or they do, and we don't do what we should do about it, so you ain't gonna hear about it. ). But that's only an "experience" thing, and an "education" thing. And you ain't "wee people". I'm quite often very impressed with the knowledge and understanding many of you who are not professional trainers, actually have. My young pup came from a litter who bullied him a fair bit. So his early behaviour/s were much learnt before he came to me. But just like anyone else, I gotta work through them too . Walking down the hallway in the mornings (which was the worst time, because he was so full of beans especially after the long sleep) was almost a nightmare . I couldn't walk normally, 'cause I'd be dragging the puppy who was self-attached to the bottom of my jeans along with me. That's IF I'd got to the point of getting my jeans on. If not, it was my dressing gown. I used to have to corner myself strategically where I got dress, elsewise he'd be making a grab for my socks as I tried to put them on, or thought one leg of my jeans (that I hadn't yet managed to get my other leg into) was some sort of new dog tug toy. I used to call him "Monster Head" back then. Unless he was asleep. Then I called him "my little man" ;) . And if his mouth wasn't on a part of my body or my clothes, then it was ripping the edges of carpet pieces (which I used as mats in some spots) to pieces. If it wasn't that, then he was weeing or pooping. And if I had managed to get too ahead of him along the hallway, that's when I'd hear the kathump kathump of his somewhat unco-ordinated big paws and before I'd know it, feel the sinking feeling of needlepoint puppy teeth in the back of my knee. I can laugh now, but it hurt back then and I did let a few expletives drop at the time . What you don't know is that a few of those times I'd be on the phone to a client ..... could well have been a DOLer even, and I'd try to 'suck it up' for the sake of telephone professionality. 'Sucking it up' wasn't always possible though . They were the times when he was very quickly whisked to his puppy pen. But please don't tell Jeff Jones. As far as he is aware, he thinks my boy is already putting out the garbage; washing dishes; and polishing the silverware. .......... Edited January 20, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 isnt he going for his Heavy Rigid license next week Erny? Or is that after he graduates from university Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) isnt he going for his Heavy Rigid license next week Erny? Or is that after he graduates from university ;) .... spit my coffee at the screen just imagining him in the driver's seat, all tatted up. He's not allowed to get his license until he's 12 months old, didn cha know? ............................. So he's doing an IT course to fill in the time. PS .... Jeff - eat your heart out. Edited January 20, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochmad Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Help! It's not working. Last night he started doing the biting of the leg thing and so I grabbed the water bottle, squirted it at him and said NO! and he thought that was a game and started lunging for the bottle! Any other ideas I can try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 oh dear. I would spend a couple of days with him on leash inside.... doing down stays alongside you.. walking at heel around the house... and getting praised for good work! just so he knows that he can walk sedately.... maybe you could put a few drops of citronella oil in the bottle of water? This smells strong.. and may be more of a deterrent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Help! It's not working. Last night he started doing the biting of the leg thing and so I grabbed the water bottle, squirted it at him and said NO! and he thought that was a game and started lunging for the bottle!Any other ideas I can try? Gee, no great surprise .. he's a gundog after all! Next time he does it.. yell "get OFF" in the loudest decibel growly voice you can muster and kick your heel up behind you. Really tell him. He should be shocked and stop. Continue on as if nothing had happened. If that doesn't work. I'd be taking him by the collar.. and tellng him GET OFF and pulling him off. Your dealing with the canine equivalent of a 16 year old boy here Pooch. He's full of testosterone, thinks he's bullet proof and you're not to be taken seriously. You've tried being nice, now its 'consequences' time. He finds this behaviour rewarding. Unless you make it unrewarding, he has no motivation to stop it. Distraction or transferring the behaviour into a more positive one isn't working. Time for a suitable aversive. This is hardly 'positive' training.. but you want to nip this in the bud NOW. How much exercise is he getting now? Edited January 20, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochmad Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Help! It's not working. Last night he started doing the biting of the leg thing and so I grabbed the water bottle, squirted it at him and said NO! and he thought that was a game and started lunging for the bottle!Any other ideas I can try? Gee, no great surprise .. he's a gundog after all! Next time he does it.. yell "get OFF" in the loudest decibel growly voice you can muster and kick your heel up behind you. Really tell him. He should be shocked and stop. Continue on as if nothing had happened. If that doesn't work. I'd be taking him by the collar.. and tellng him GET OFF and pulling him off. Your dealing with the canine equivalent of a 16 year old boy here Pooch. He's full of testosterone, thinks he's bullet proof and you're not to be taken seriously. You've tried being nice, now its 'consequences' time. He finds this behaviour rewarding. Unless you make it unrewarding, he has no motivation to stop it. Distraction or transferring the behaviour into a more positive one isn't working. Time for a suitable aversive. This is hardly 'positive' training.. but you want to nip this in the bud NOW. How much exercise is he getting now? As soon as I bend down to grab him he runs away and then charges up and down the hallway (leaping off the bottom 3 stairs onto the wooden floors and skidding which is a huge no-no as I'm concerned about his hips) so whatever I seem to do is a game. Funny you should mention kicking up the heel, as I've also done that! Anything I seem to do he takes as a game. Even if I apply pressure. It's really annoying. He gets walked every night for 35 mins, this is a pretty fast walk and he comes home pooped. He tends to do it mostly in the morning - not very often (i.e. not all morning), but at some time in the morning he will do it. I understand he's doing it then as he's refreshed and excited. I'll try your way tomorrow and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Given what you have already tried, have you thought about having a one on one session with a good trainer who can show you some different techniques? Have you tried letting him drag a lead around so that you can grab that to correct instead of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 poochmad might be time for a trainer. I think you're not being firm enough with him and he's just brushing you off. I wouldnt have him off leash in the house, he's ruined his chance so I would keep hiim on leash. Mucks up - outside. The house is a privilege not a right and he's abused it. conversely setting him up holding two pot lids then banging them in his face has worked for me as well. Be firm! You know you can be ! Really turn around and roar at him you wont traumatise him at all .... think of it as a stress release exercise as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I have just finished reading this thread and like to say thanks for some tips. My Newfy Pup which is 6 months old is trying to show his dominance by starting to mouth again. I tried the loud "No" with more omph in it and it seems to be working yay. No all I have to is stop him from nudging me with his rump when he wants me to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochmad Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Hmm. Perhaps the cause could be that I've stopped training him? (I've been a bit slack lately.) And he's pushing the boundary this way? Everything else he does that is naughty (like going for the toilet paper), I can say no in a growly voice (and very firm) and he immediately stops. It's like he is so hyped up that he just HAS to bite and the more I tell him off, the more excited he gets. (I guess it's like a naughty toddler, they push and push you...). Instead of telling him off (as it doesn't seem to be working), is it a better idea to give him a command like sit or drop which he then gets praise for and also distracts him from what he's doing? My thoughts are that, this biting behaviour is now a game in his eyes and when I yell at him or react then that is what he's after...however, if I calmly instruct him to drop, then he has to change tact and respond automatically (he's 110% at responding), as that is what he does and instead of getting a negative response, he gets a positive response. Nekhbet, Cosmlo and Erny, what are your thoughts on the above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) IMO, at this age and stage, i would correct the behaviour rather than giving a command. Its just finding a way to give an effective correction. Its highly unlikely that a) he would respond to the command when in that frame of mind and b) it would stop the behaviour- when you release him, he would probably go back to biting again. If he increases in intensity when you correct- he is telling you that your correction was not effective- either poorly timed, not the right type of correction or level of correction for him. It 'loads' him which increase the intensity that he comes at you with. If he's in drive when he's doing this he's having the best time he possibly can- consider how you are timing your correction. Do you warn him before you correct? Don't let him 'get ready' for a correction- it should be instant. He needs to understand that putting his mouth around a person is never okay. I still think you should get a good trainer to help you Edited January 21, 2009 by Cosmolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Cosmolo is right. If it doesnt stop it, it adds to his sillyness. Hence why I say, don't gradually increase your corrections. You're either desensitising or loading, neither which will help. Get a good, loud correction or keep him on a leash. Scare the bejeezus out of him - GRRRRRR NO and clap your hands, stomp your foot. Hey this hurts! Dont be halfy halfy about it put a stop to it now! Get him as soon as he has that gleam in his eye and you wont need to use as big a correction or struggle with a hyper pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochmad Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 OK. Will give it a go - the full on NO (and mean it) before he acts...as he's pretty predictable... *Right, tough love, here we come!* (Repeating to self.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It's like he is so hyped up that he just HAS to bite and the more I tell him off, the more excited he gets. (I guess it's like a naughty toddler, they push and push you...). Hence my question about exercise. Is he still confined inside? How much is he getting. You've indicated that his mental stimulation (ie obedience training) has decreased.. this will not be helping. He sounds to me like a dog that is literally jumping out of his skin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It's like he is so hyped up that he just HAS to bite From what I understand of his daily life...he IS!!!! sorry twice daily walks at least... training sessions everyday...at present he has nothing with which to satisfy his need for work he is an indulged teenager!!!..and needs exercise and discipline in large doses... affection doled out for good things/behaviour..., so he regains some balance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 as I tell clients ... you can either be firm today, or frustrated and miserable forever. Your choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It's like he is so hyped up that he just HAS to bite From what I understand of his daily life...he IS!!!! sorry twice daily walks at least... training sessions everyday...at present he has nothing with which to satisfy his need for work he is an indulged teenager!!!..and needs exercise and discipline in large doses... affection doled out for good things/behaviour..., so he regains some balance.... :D Have to second this, you need to be stimulating him mentally as well, field spaniels were bred to work, use their brain, not just run around. I see from your thread in general that you are thinking of getting another field spaniel, wouldn't it be worth while getting some one on one advice from a trainer to sort this out before you take on another otherwise you may find you have one on each calf! Better than trying hundreds of different methods and failing. Having had it explained to me that exercise needs to be mental as much as physical for active breeds, I upped my training practice, and found that this tired Jake out 10 times more than chasing endlessly after a ball. He is also more responsive and, just little things that have happened, make me see that my leadership status has increased too. He still gets heaps of affection btw but he gets the other things too! We had a litter of 6 welsh springer spaniel pups when I was young, and it was the time of flares, I still have memories of all 6 baby puppies hangin off my flares!!! so I do feel your pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I still think you should get a good trainer to help you So do I. The dog is no longer a puppy. He is a young dog. This behaviour should not be continuing and you are obviously having trouble mastering techniques that will work sufficiently and efficiently. This isn't something to muck around with. It's not a 'phase' anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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