Biting Game By 7 Month Old

[poochmad]

Henschke is now 7.5 months old.

I understand that he's going through his teenage period. He's pretty good 99.9% of the time except for when he's 'frisky'. This occurs in the evening and in the morning. He has restarted behaviour that stopped when he was a puppy, which is to bite me on the back of my legs when I'm walking.

When he first started it, I would get angry and tell him NO! but that didn't work and he just thought it was a game - running away and then running back to bite me, me yelling at him and he running away - round and round we went...

I next tried to tell him to drop so he goes down and then rewarding him when he's dropped. This only works some of the time as most days he has a wicked gleam in his eye and you know that as soon as you move he will be at it again (the biting and running away).

I have also tried to stop moving, but obviously this doesn't work if I'm on the way out or on the way to do something.

Another tactic is to focus his attention to a toy, but obviously this only works once I get to the toy and in the meantime he's biting me at the back of the legs.

He has also started doing it to hubby and people walking into the house.

Our thoughts on this are that he's coping with an increase of hormones and gets so muddled he 'just has to bite' even though he gets a negative response. Our other analysis of it is it occurs when there are lots of stimulus happening for him - we're getting ready for work (moving around the house) or we're getting ready to go out, as when there is not much happening he's really good and just lies in his bed.

Obviously this is something we don't want him to continue, especially as he's now directing his attention to guests and to be frank - I'm sick of him putting holes in clothes. I thought this biting behaviour would have stopped by now.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can get him to stop or what we should be doing to decrease this behaviour? Is there something we're doing wrong?

Or is this something they just go through and as long as we're consistent in our approach it will pass?

Suggestions/advice most welcome.

Edited January 20, 2009 by poochmad

[Nekhbet]

there is no repercussion for it so he continues - thats all it comes down to.

he's an entire male close to adolescence and he's starting to push. Spray bottle with water and a little vinegar or grab him by the scruff when he bites you and growl NO, then put him outside.

I never allow 'zoomy' or stupid behavior in the house anyway its a house rule, break it you go outside. Makes life easier in the long run.

[BigBen]

"Another tactic is to focus his attention to a toy, but obviously this only works once I get to the toy and in the meantime he's biting me at the back of the legs."

Here you have just rewarded his biting! This tactic only works if you give him the toy before he starts biting.

Ben is the same age, and he does mouth a lot, he doesn't bite down... I use a sharp, loud 'AH! AH!', and he stops... His mouthing is getting less by the day, in fact it's almost non-existent by now.

[poochmad]

there is no repercussion for it so he continues - thats all it comes down to.

he's an entire male close to adolescence and he's starting to push. Spray bottle with water and a little vinegar or grab him by the scruff when he bites you and growl NO, then put him outside.

I never allow 'zoomy' or stupid behavior in the house anyway its a house rule, break it you go outside. Makes life easier in the long run.

Thanks Nekhbet. Zoomies aren't allowed in the house either - when he does this he's put outside straight away as I want him to be calm inside and play outside.

Will try the spray bottle and the vinegar mix.

[poochmad]

"Another tactic is to focus his attention to a toy, but obviously this only works once I get to the toy and in the meantime he's biting me at the back of the legs."

Here you have just rewarded his biting! This tactic only works if you give him the toy before he starts biting.

Ben is the same age, and he does mouth a lot, he doesn't bite down... I use a sharp, loud 'AH! AH!', and he stops... His mouthing is getting less by the day, in fact it's almost non-existent by now.

True good point (regarding the toy). When Henschke's not acting crazy and he mouths us he listens to the loud UH UH! and stops immediately. Sometimes, like when he's being a bugger I need to up the anty and will try the spray bottle that Nekhbet suggested.

Is Ben desexed? Henschke isn't as he's a show dog and I guess this is why we're running into problems as previously all our dogs have been desexed and we haven't had these issues post puppyhood.

[persephone]

I guess this is why we're running into problems as previously all our dogs have been desexed and we haven't had these issues post puppyhood.

IMO the fact he is entire would NOT be the whole reason

Your other pups/dogs... were they kept under such close scrutiny? ie: inside all the time/penned etc... when you weren't around?

Were they a similar breed?

there are so many variables ...

The crux is.. he has never been decisively corrected for the behaviour.

simple...or given an activity to perform which gets him such a high quality reward!!

the reward he gets .. you shouting/running/giving him toys FAR outweighs any feeble attempts at correcting/modifying his behaviour Dogs are very good at getting action!

Oh.. and he is not past puppyhood!!

Edited January 19, 2009 by persephone

[Nekhbet]

dont try to gradually keep increasing your tactics. Do one action and give him a definitive instruction on your displeasure at his action. Black and white its the easiest, and this is why behaviors repeat - it was enough before but now he's a 'bit more of a man' he will try again.

doesnt mean you have to be cruel, doesnt mean you stop rewarding or encouraging good behavior BUT if you want an adult entire male who has a habit of being a turd (try having a 60kg version), or breed him as well then be firm but fair. One chance, not 10, to make a difference and its so much fairer on the dog.

[poochmad]

dont try to gradually keep increasing your tactics. Do one action and give him a definitive instruction on your displeasure at his action. Black and white its the easiest, and this is why behaviors repeat - it was enough before but now he's a 'bit more of a man' he will try again.

doesnt mean you have to be cruel, doesnt mean you stop rewarding or encouraging good behavior BUT if you want an adult entire male who has a habit of being a turd (try having a 60kg version), or breed him as well then be firm but fair. One chance, not 10, to make a difference and its so much fairer on the dog.

Hi Nekhbet. Just wanted to say thank you for your water spray suggestion. It worked perfectly. I told hubby what you said about him coming into that age, trying it on us again and us needing to be consistent (and no toys to be given when he bites).

This morning he was at it again, I gave him two squirts as I was walking (saying a growly NO! at the same time) and he stopped! He looked a bit stunned actually and stopped biting me. Yay! Success!

Now I will have the water bottle near me or in the evening or when people come to visit to stop him doing it.

Thanks again!

[Nekhbet]

huzzah ... and poor Henschke is thwarted for now

around visitors maybe a leash would be a better idea then trying to chase him with a spray bottle. With my dogs I never let them be at the door as pups when everyone arrived and settled I walked them in on a lead. This saved the 'excitement' period razzing up the dog.

ETA before hubby gets too comfy your boy will probably go through another 2-3 'I'm being an annoying turd' periods before he's a complete adult so stay consistant and you'll breeze through it all

Edited January 19, 2009 by Nekhbet

[The Spotted Devil]

Mean Nekhbet thwarting Henschke's fun

If it makes you feel any better, poochmad, Ziggy went through a shocking "try it on" stage, except he'd do a mad zoomie around the lounge room before doing a flying super dog impersonation and sprawling flat out on the couch, which was expressly forbidden Initially I would physically remove him but he grew bigger and learned to go stiff as a board so I couldn't budge him, all the while with a cheeky gleam in his eye and a madly wagging tail. It didn't help that OH was in the corner trying, not very successfully, to contain his laughter So, out came the water spray (for both of them ) and we never looked back

[Nekhbet]

SD I had a goat that would do that ... adult Anglo Nubian that would flatten herself under a table so she wouldnt have to come out and have her hoofs trimmed

[The Spotted Devil]

SD I had a goat that would do that ... adult Anglo Nubian that would flatten herself under a table so she wouldnt have to come out and have her hoofs trimmed

Oh cr@p that's a funny image

[BigBen]

True good point (regarding the toy). When Henschke's not acting crazy and he mouths us he listens to the loud UH UH! and stops immediately. Sometimes, like when he's being a bugger I need to up the anty and will try the spray bottle that Nekhbet suggested.

Is Ben desexed? Henschke isn't as he's a show dog and I guess this is why we're running into problems as previously all our dogs have been desexed and we haven't had these issues post puppyhood.

Yes, Ben was desexed recently, but I haven't seen any difference in his behaviour, except for what training has helped with. Of course, being a Great Dane X, he won't mature until about 18 months.. I'm glad the spray bottle works... I use it occasionally on Ben, when he's being an absolute BRAT..

[dogon]

there is no repercussion for it so he continues - thats all it comes down to.

he's an entire male close to adolescence and he's starting to push. Spray bottle with water and a little vinegar or grab him by the scruff when he bites you and growl NO, then put him outside.

I never allow 'zoomy' or stupid behavior in the house anyway its a house rule, break it you go outside. Makes life easier in the long run.

Nekhbet, I was wondering if the scruffing can lead to hand shyness in a dog. My father encouraged me to scruff my pup when he was doing this and I refused because I was worried that it would make him shy of my hand. Anyway, one night I gave in when he was being particularly persistent. Whilst it did work eventually because he went to sleep, he did yelp and growl at me as soon as I scruffed him and then appeared quite shy of my hand for the next couple of days. Needless to say I haven't done it again and he's fine with my hands now.

Perhaps you mean that a scruffing should be used sparingly?

Edited January 20, 2009 by dogon

[Nekhbet]

hand shyness can be an act in some dogs.

The way is to do it the way mother dog did - grab some skin or the back of its collar (dont pinch) and simply control the dog like tightly holding its collar. The point is to say HEY CUT IT OUT.

If you are not confident and you let go when the pup carries on he thinks 'eh you're not serious, get lost you cant catch me again'. Timing as well as soon as he grabs you scruff 'ARRRHHHH NO', wait till the pup relaxes and then walk away quietly. A pup that has had no discipline may be a little bamboozled but ignore it. You should only do it when the pup begins, dong wait till they've been nibbling at you for a while.

Pups will squeal, roll, bite, bark, scratch etc and throw the mother of all tantrums. Dogs have to be used to being held and touched and manipulated, I've taught all of mine this way and no one is hand shy and everyone accepts being touched or held in all ways. Dont worry its pretty difficult to traumatise a pup and they can be little emotional blackmailers

ETA scruffing i mainly do on younger pups when they do something VERY unacceptable like bite or launch with teeth bared. I find it gets through to their brains on the primitive level - BITE = NEVER

Edited January 20, 2009 by Nekhbet

[dogon]

ETA scruffing i mainly do on younger pups when they do something VERY unacceptable like bite or launch with teeth bared. I find it gets through to their brains on the primitive level - BITE = NEVER

Yes, this is when I used it. I held the back of his neck as you described and growled NO. It's good to know that they can be emotional blackmailers. I'll remember that next time I'm tempted to ring doggy DOCs :wink: for help - he sure made me feel bad

[Nekhbet]

oh yeah. I have seen some TERRORS! 11 week old beagle, butter wouldnt melt in its mouth but the owner was in tears .... we found out why after trying to vaccinate it ... it was a terror! It attacked the vet, biting, screaming scratching, launching until I grabbed it. It was like something out of a horror movie! Vet was bleeding, I was bleeding and we hadn't even go the needle near it yet!

not saying one has to beat the pup I dont advocate hitting ESPECIALLY on the head/face. But dont fall for all their tricks, because dogs have a lot of them!

[poochmad]

huzzah ... and poor Henschke is thwarted for now

around visitors maybe a leash would be a better idea then trying to chase him with a spray bottle. With my dogs I never let them be at the door as pups when everyone arrived and settled I walked them in on a lead. This saved the 'excitement' period razzing up the dog.

ETA before hubby gets too comfy your boy will probably go through another 2-3 'I'm being an annoying turd' periods before he's a complete adult so stay consistant and you'll breeze through it all

Regarding the visitors, we used to put him on the lead to greet people when they come in the door, but he's a shy dog and having him on the lead made it worse. So when people come in, they say hello (and he says hello tentatively) and then they ignore him until seated and allow him to approach them. This seems to be working.

When he's comfortable with people (like my family) he will try the biting thing - that is when I'll have the water bottle handy. He doesn't do it if he doesn't know the person.

Will relay what you said regarding more periods coming up. Can't wait until he's mature. ;)

[Erny]

My current boy exhibited this behaviour when he was a young pup and like the OP, we 'worked' through it and he no longer displays the behaviour. He's now 7mo. He now KNOWS it is not on, so I can tell you now that if he so much as hinted at the behaviour again I won't be doing the 'soft sell' like I did in his earlier puppy days. He's older and I can expect more from him than that now. I would go for immediate correction. What form of correction depends on the situation and circumstance. But it won't be the old casual "no/ah ah" thing. That was baby stuff, and IMO he knows better than that now. The way things are going, I have my doubts that he'll try it on. But I guess time will tell on that score.

The worst he's 'trying on' at the moment, is bringing his bones inside. He knows he isn't to, but I note that bones originally left just on the outside of the door step are being left just on the inside of the door step, if not on the door step itself. Sometimes he does it while I'm looking and I get that "it'll be alright if I just leave it here, won't it?" look from him. I give him the stern look until he picks it up and takes it back out the other side, then I turn around where he can't see my face and quietly laugh.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Erny

[poochmad]

My current boy exhibited this behaviour when he was a young pup and like the OP, we 'worked' through it and he no longer displays the behaviour. He's now 7mo. He now KNOWS it is not on, so I can tell you now that if he so much as hinted at the behaviour again I won't be doing the 'soft sell' like I did in his earlier puppy days. He's older and I can expect more from him than that now. I would go for immediate correction. What form of correction depends on the situation and circumstance. But it won't be the old casual "no/ah ah" thing. That was baby stuff, and IMO he knows better than that now. The way things are going, I have my doubts that he'll try it on. But I guess time will tell on that score.

;) The worst he's 'trying on' at the moment, is bringing his bones inside. He knows he isn't to, but I note that bones originally left just on the outside of the door step are being left just on the inside of the door step, if not on the door step itself. Sometimes he does it while I'm looking and I get that "it'll be alright if I just leave it here, won't it?" look from him. I give him the stern look until he picks it up and takes it back out the other side, then I turn around where he can't see my face and quietly laugh.

How nice it is to hear from a professional trainer that you have the same problems as 'us wee' people! Thanks for sharing Erny, you've made me feel a whole lot better.