Erny Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) I give ACV not just for my grass No need for the rolled-eyes, GSD. I was making a statement, not pointing a finger. Sorry if you took it differently. Given the title subject of this thread (which is about grass burning) I thought what I said was appropriate. Edited January 17, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoyedman Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Erny, in summing up, in your opinion is it best to add ACV to food, and not too regularly...maybe a capful every couple of days? I don't want to risk any adverse health affects but I really would love to cut down on these grass burns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) Erny, in summing up, in your opinion is it best to add ACV to food, and not too regularly...maybe a capful every couple of days? Hi Samoyedman. Honestly, I'm not the expert on this. I hope I have made it clear that the view I've expressed is merely my own opinion, not necessarily a learned one. If it were me, I'd probably only give ACV as a supplement if I were to give it at all, but not necessarily on an every day occurrence. Depending on the dog but assuming it was otherwise healthy, just every now and again - probably not frequently enough to make any or much difference to the burning of the lawn. But please know that I'm not suggesting anyone follow my lead. My main reason for entering this thread was because the focus seemed to be on changing something within the dog for the sake of the lawn and I haven't been able to find any info to tell me what this does to the dog's system and whether there is the potential (small or otherwise) for long term harm (mild or otherwise). And I really only raised it as 'food for thought' (no pun intended). I don't want to risk any adverse health affects but I really would love to cut down on these grass burns. So would I ..... my lawn is sufferring somewhat as well. And if I could find something that shows me that dog rocks and/or the constant supply of ACV does not and cannot have any adverse affect on the dog, then I would probably go for it. But all I've really heard is along the lines of 'my dog has it and is ok' and me being a bit of a stickler for detail sometimes, it's not enough to make me feel comfortable about it. As I said, I'm going to try the "wee post" idea. Not sure how well or otherwise it will work though. Might only serve to give him one MORE place to pee, rather than him learning to center the majority of his pee in that spot. Edited January 17, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 ...looks like I can reply also it is an old topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) ups ... seems to work... wrt topic 'dog rocks': I don't know whether I should admire this 'business idea', or whether I should be upset that something like this is allowed in Australia (to my knowledge it is not allowed in other parts of the civilized world)... I think I'm more upset, as this is IMO serious fraud. By accident I stumbled some times in the internet over their page and thought it is just a hoax and they just making fun - yesterday I saw in Bunnings that this 'product' is really sold and bought in Bunnings and as I heard from the manager also in other shops. AU$ 12 for 2 or 3 rocks that can't work (ok, you could throw them and if you hit I might help...). Some facts: there is enough scientific evidence that the burns are a result from the nitrate and nitrogen salts in the urine, and this is a normal residual from the digestion of protein - it has nothing to do with drinking water, the only effect that drinking more water would have would be a more diluted urine...which might burn the grass a little bit less. The information on the package is absolutely nonsense: e.g. quote: ... 'it will remove any nitrates and tin found naturally in water....this will give your dog a cleaner and healthier water supply'... what a load of ...the nitrate conc. in tap water is likely even lower than in bottled water ...and I even use tap water for watering my lawn and the nitrate never did any damage (sarcasm) ...of course not as there are only traces of nitrate (otherwise people would have serious health issues). Edited November 13, 2015 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 ...and it was even on sunrise ...I work for over 20 years in the water & wastewater industry and thought I know a little bit about ions, pH etc. etc...never ever heard such a hoax / bs where some unscrupulous people capitalize on the ignorance (wrt water) of people...that can't be legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boronia Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 My dogs all pee on the grass near the bottom of the back steps and without the Dog Rocks the grass is burned, with the Dog Rocks the grass grows fine. When burn marks appear I know the rocks need to be replaced. I bought some Not Dog Rocks brand from PetStock and they didn't work, the genuine ones did work. I am a tight-ar$e thrifty so after a few months I break the rocks in half with a hammer...longer benefits from them. So, go figure, I don't believe the blurb on the packet either but they do work :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 My dogs all pee on the grass near the bottom of the back steps and without the Dog Rocks the grass is burned, with the Dog Rocks the grass grows fine. When burn marks appear I know the rocks need to be replaced. I bought some Not Dog Rocks brand from PetStock and they didn't work, the genuine ones did work. I am a tight-ar$e thrifty so after a few months I break the rocks in half with a hammer...longer benefits from them. So, go figure, I don't believe the blurb on the packet either but they do work :) ...the reasons why your grass grows or not are 100% not linked to the dog rocks - climate, rain, diet whatever...but not the dog rocks!!!...if you want to save money - don't buy this scam!...paramagnetic igneous rocks...aarrgh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 From the site: IS IT THAT IT ATTRACTS THE NITRATES IN THE WATER AND NEUTRALIZES IT?THIS IS IMPORTANT….NEUTRALIZES IS NOT A WORD WE LIKE TO ASSOCIATE WITH DOG ROCKS AS SOME PEOPLE CAN BE CONFUSED AND THINK IT NEUTRALIZES THE PH BALANCE. (RE THE TESTS..THIS IS NOT SO) THE BASIC PRINCIPAL IS THE ROCK BEING PARAMAGNETIC CHANGES THE ION EXCHANGE IN THE WATER. THIS RESULTS IN THE NITRATE LEVEL IN THE WATER DROPPING AND NOT BEING INGESTED BY THE DOG. LOWER NITRATES WILL CAUSE THE URINE TO STOP BURNING THE GRASS. IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE PH BALANCE ETA: This means nothing to me, it's just what they say, perhaps someone can translate. It also says they're unlikely to work for dogs being fed raw/high protein diets. absolutely bollocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I just filed a complaint with ACCC - it is a mystery why Australien customers are not better protected against this scam that can be easily detected as scam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoyedman Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Boronia, since this thread started 6 years ago I have been using ACV in my dogs water continuously. No grass burns and my dog looks great and is healthy. If you use ACV get the quality stuff from a health store. The clear cheaper type at Coles or Woolies doesn't do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boronia Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Boronia, since this thread started 6 years ago I have been using ACV in my dogs water continuously. No grass burns and my dog looks great and is healthy. If you use ACV get the quality stuff from a health store. The clear cheaper type at Coles or Woolies doesn't do the job. yes, that is the stuff to get SM I usually get this one or this one if I can't get the Melrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 If dog rocks could neutralize nitrates in water or whatever they are supposed to do, then they have just solved NZ's dirty dairy industry problems!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 The apple cider vinegar has to be the cloudy stuff "with mother" - usually in health food shops or health food section of supermarket - not the vinegar section. I get bad lawn burns if I feed dry dog food and not so much if I feed home made dog food. I figure it has to do with the salt content - not just sodium hydroxide (what you put on food with pepper) but other salts - nitrate is a salt. ie a salt - basic school chemistry here - is something that has a two components that share electrons. Usually a metal element and something from the non metal side eg nitrogen, oxygen, chlorine... most of them dissolve in water and divide into a positive (short of an electron) and negative ion. If you put in a wire with two bits of metal on the ends ideally different bits of metal eg a bit of zinc and a bit of copper - you will make an electric current. this is how most batteries work. And it's why hot water systems (and steel hull ships) need sacrificial anodes - which are to draw out the metal salts ie the anode gets corroded instead of the hull or tank. The trouble starts with the water. Remember acid rain - ie water falling through polluted air - can become acid enough to corrode a rainwater tank. It's still fine to drink. Most city tap water contains chlorine - which will form a salt (corrode) when in contact with metal - hence your hot water system needing protection - or dying after a while. In Adelaide - there's a lot of calcium (associated with limestone in the ground in our dams and through the murray river catchment). And a nice top up of chlorine that is so bad you can smell it in summer. And if a dog drinks that - the salts that are unneeded will go straight through the system and get peed out - on the lawn. And then you get a salt burn... It's also why if the dog pees on concrete and it dries there can be a white salt patch. Tho salts do come in other fun colours. Especially if they contain copper or iron or chrome - eg copper sulphate. However - that's going to kill your dog. You don't want copper salts in water. Which makes me wonder why pipes are made out of copper - but not as bad as lead and lead salts. So for me - the easiest way to prevent lawn burns - is to pour some extra water over the top of a pee spot - which the lawn loves. I don't know of any of you have noticed, that the lawns love the pee spots after the initial burn from too much fertiliser. Ie pee often contains salts = chlorine based, sulphur based (especially if you've been eating asparagus or broccoli or cabbage), nitrogen based (any plant), phosophorus based. All good stuff for the lawn. Maybe the rocks are acting a bit like a sacrificial anode and capturing the salts (changing them to something that comes out of the water? insoluble?). But I'd like to see a double blind study with controls (inactive rocks) and the active rocks and the people using them - not knowing which is which. Feeding home made food - would reduce the amount of salt going into your dog's system compared to most commercial food. As would cutting out the crisps and jatz crackers and cheese and metwurst (dog didn't get any this time - I like it too much to share) and promite on toast (she insists). I don't know how apple cider vinegar works - because a lot of the salts already make acid when you put them in water. eg if you put http://blogs.olmc.nsw.edu.au/contemh/2015/03/18/the-chemical-reaction-of-limestone-and-marble/ I don't know as much about nitrogen salts - except they would come from breaking down proteins - which contain a lot of nitrogen... http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/553.html According to the article if you can get your dog to drink more water - the pee will be more dilute so less burn. Eg mix some yogurt in (a teaspoon per litre is enough) - makes my dog drink more ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) ....And if a dog drinks that - the salts that are unneeded will go straight through the system and get peed out - on the lawn. And then you get a salt burn..... the salt concentration in tap water / potable water is actually very little, the chlorine (there are thresholds anyway) doesn't change this. Chlorine has the advantage that most of it will be disappeared after 30 minutes in the bowl or in contact with open air. Some water provider will use chloramine instead of chlorine for disinfection - both treatment regimens have pro and cons, however, none of them will make your dog's urine so salty that it will cause yellow burns. The cause for the yellow burns are the nitrogen salts, nitrates etc. which cause over fertilization, like adding too much ammonium-nitrate = fertilizer at one spot. Actually, in tap water are only traces of nitrates, most bottled water have even higher concentrations. If the concentrations would be so high that it would cause damage to the lawn, your dog and we would have serious kidney problems. Also, ocean water (with high conc. of sodium chloride) won't cause yellow burns on lawn, so that also shows that the nitrates are the cause and not the chloride or chlorine. The reason, why the dry kibble is more likely to cause yellow burns is: because it's dry :) ....means less water, means higher conc. of the nitrates (as a result of the digestion of proteins). I add water to the kibble to keep the conc. low - not sure whether this has really an impact on my lawn. wrt dog rocks: the only plausible explanation why they could work (they don't!!!) would be that they would have a high salt conc. (NaCL); the salt would leach in the water, dog gets more thirsty, drinks more and at the end the nitrate conc. in the urine is diluted. However, that would cause serious health issues (kidney, blood pressure etc....) and would open the door for a lot of lawsuits....these 'smart' guys from dog rock wouldn't risk it. The rocks are just rocks, and they have no impact on the water (actually that is more or less what the guys from dog rocks are telling, so their 'only' lie is the general statement that they would prevent yellow burns (well, of course they don't give any warranties :D ). Edited November 30, 2015 by Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willem Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 wrt ACV: it seems that it has an impact on the pH value of the urine, and knowing that forming of ammonia (NH3) respectively ammonium (NH4) depends on the pH there is at least some science that it could work (not saying that continuously manipulating the pH value of the urine is a good thing to do). Did someone noticed a change in smell of the urine when feeding ACV?...I read somewhere that the urine becomes smellier and attracts the dogs to pee at the same spot, so that could be another reason why it works respectively why there are less yellow spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Well I was leaning towards the ACV until the smelliness factor. No way Ernie the frat boy needs more smells. He's one step away from scratching his knackers through a leg of his shorts while watching the footie as is. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now