sandgrubber Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm having recall problems with a small pack of Labradors who would enter the gates of hell if there was a dead rotting rabbit corpse on the other side. Not to mention ducking the fence of a neighbour who doesn't like dogs and has a rabbit warren in his yard. I'm not a training nut. I don't care if they sit properly at my left side . . . I'm not doing obedience competition. . . I just want them to be safe and not cause problems by going into the wrong places or bothering the wrong animal, eg, Mr Tiger Snake. Bottom line: I need a method that will work under high distraction for multiple dogs at distance, and being an impatient sort, I don't want to spend years of regular training to get a result. Months is ok if I see progress from the start. If it costs a few bucks, it costs a few bucks. Better than having a big vet bill or a major heartache cause the dogs took off in the wrong direction. After some study, I conclude that e-collar is probably the method of choice. Does anyone know of a trainer in Perth metro area that would be helpful? Or might the distance education route be equally satisfactory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke GSP Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm having recall problems with a small pack of Labradors who would enter the gates of hell if there was a dead rotting rabbit corpse on the other side. Not to mention ducking the fence of a neighbour who doesn't like dogs and has a rabbit warren in his yard.I'm not a training nut. I don't care if they sit properly at my left side . . . I'm not doing obedience competition. . . I just want them to be safe and not cause problems by going into the wrong places or bothering the wrong animal, eg, Mr Tiger Snake. Bottom line: I need a method that will work under high distraction for multiple dogs at distance, and being an impatient sort, I don't want to spend years of regular training to get a result. Months is ok if I see progress from the start. If it costs a few bucks, it costs a few bucks. Better than having a big vet bill or a major heartache cause the dogs took off in the wrong direction. After some study, I conclude that e-collar is probably the method of choice. Does anyone know of a trainer in Perth metro area that would be helpful? Or might the distance education route be equally satisfactory? I'd give K9 Force from this forum a call or PM him. I am sure that he would be able to put you on the right way f tackling your problem. He also does distance learning packages i believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I learned the whole thing on K9 Force distance package but I already had some history with training. Check with K9 Force as luke suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna H Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 There isn't anyone in Perth that I know of... like the others suggested, try K9Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 There isn't anyone in Perth that I know of... like the others suggested, try K9Force I find it a bit sad that there's nothing local. Do people think there's any hope of training up someone . . . eg, taking advantage of k9 force expertise? but getting a group together? btw, I was first impressed by e-collar training on a forum for Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. High drive dog, much more alpha tendency than Labbies. Poorly suited to WA because their coats are very thick and they are water nuts . . . not to mention being a bit hard for the average Joe to handle. . . so I settled for Labbies. On the Chessie forum, someone was talking about being able to halt a Chess mid-retrieve and get it to respond to a recall. Others confirmed the experience. That is impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 There isn't anyone in Perth that I know of... like the others suggested, try K9Force I find it a bit sad that there's nothing local. Do people think there's any hope of training up someone . . . eg, taking advantage of k9 force expertise? but getting a group together? btw, I was first impressed by e-collar training on a forum for Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. High drive dog, much more alpha tendency than Labbies. Poorly suited to WA because their coats are very thick and they are water nuts . . . not to mention being a bit hard for the average Joe to handle. . . so I settled for Labbies. On the Chessie forum, someone was talking about being able to halt a Chess mid-retrieve and get it to respond to a recall. Others confirmed the experience. That is impressive. Sandgrubber - the reason why there is nothing local - you will find that WA is the most "Positive" training state in the whole of Australia - we have several of the best obedience trainers here who all use positive training, getting results - so you would struggle to find anybody who would even considering using an e-collar. Anybody who did would certainly not be advertising the fact. I do know several retrieving people who have gone the e-collar route and all of whom have had to buddy up with somebody in the Eastern States to learn how to use it. I believe K9 Force has been here before - no idea what happened to the people who attended his seminar - you would have to ask Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke GSP Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 There isn't anyone in Perth that I know of... like the others suggested, try K9Force I find it a bit sad that there's nothing local. Do people think there's any hope of training up someone . . . eg, taking advantage of k9 force expertise? but getting a group together? btw, I was first impressed by e-collar training on a forum for Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. High drive dog, much more alpha tendency than Labbies. Poorly suited to WA because their coats are very thick and they are water nuts . . . not to mention being a bit hard for the average Joe to handle. . . so I settled for Labbies. On the Chessie forum, someone was talking about being able to halt a Chess mid-retrieve and get it to respond to a recall. Others confirmed the experience. That is impressive. e collars are impressive they can change both your dogs and in turn your life in regard to freedoms that could be explored. Sadly there is still a very negative belief about the use of e-collars, mainly based on misconception and misinformation as to their use in modern training. Be prepared for that, as people will judge if they find out you use one. however, you will also be approached by numerous owners asking how the hell you managed to get your dogs to play on a beach happily together off leash and not run off after the flock of birds that all the other dogs on the beach are chasing. Not that your dogs won't chase a bird, on the contary they will chase it if you let them go but they will also come back if you call them back. It all depends what you want them to do? K9 force can supply a manual explaining all the different methods of e-collar use give Steve a call I am sure you will not regret it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Thanks everybody. I've been in touch with K9 force and am still trying to figure out what the best strategy is. I'll probably end up doing the correspondence thing. It amazes me that people will yank a dog around with a choke chain and think it's humane, but a bit of a tingle with an electronic gadget is viewed as cruel . . . or cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBen Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Last year I rescued a Curly Coated Retriever... Unfortunately he had huge aggression issues, and had to be put down for the safety of people around him... He was a barker.. He would bark all day long, none stop... I bought him a bark collar, and he learned to count to 3... He had to be quiet for 3 seconds and it would return to the lowest setting... So, then he went bark, bark, bark - 1...., 2....,3...., bark bark bark... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna H Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 It amazes me that people will yank a dog around with a choke chain and think it's humane, but a bit of a tingle with an electronic gadget is viewed as cruel . . . or cheating. tell me about it... but it just is the way it is over here. You wont find many people using a check chain around either. Let us know how you go with the e-collar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Last year I rescued a Curly Coated Retriever... Unfortunately he had huge aggression issues, and had to be put down for the safety of people around him...He was a barker.. He would bark all day long, none stop... I bought him a bark collar, and he learned to count to 3... He had to be quiet for 3 seconds and it would return to the lowest setting... So, then he went bark, bark, bark - 1...., 2....,3...., bark bark bark... Sounds like the collar had him well trained :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubyroo Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Hi there, just found this thread!! I invested in innotek e-collars (you can purchase online) I have 2 GSPs who love to chase roos and rabbits, and have managed to get a few along the way we purchased 40 acres almost 4yrs ago which is renowned for tigers and brown snakes. We live a bit out of canberra, and really couldnt afford driving around in circles trying to find a vet if the problem arose. Both of my dogs have attended obedience classes one to novice and the other not too far behind, so when we are doing a little training they are so obedient, but give them some room to run and the scent of wildlife, bye bye dogs, 6ft fencing doesnt stop them, and the chance of a farmer shooting them one day is possible!!! I can scream till im blue in the face and drooling with anger, doesnt make a difference so what to do?? My collars are fantastic!!! I have one remote control which controls both collars, they are waterproof and simple to use. The innotek systems comes with a DVD on how to use also. During my time in canberra I sat an obedience instructors course and am confident of how to train and use the collars without abusing the dogs. Due to the abundance of wildlife my dogs dont go out without them on as the times I forget they always find a roo, and to my amazement last time they did, I called them and they left it, they got a great big pat and went home very quickly!! ;) When I get the collars out they start screaming with excitement as they know they are going for a walk, I havent managed to stop the screaming :D but I have managed to stop them chasing I purchased them that maybe one day they would help save their lives, I cant fault them and highly recommend them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairns_Sibe Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Can i ask where abouts you bought the collar from? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubyroo Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Can i ask where abouts you bought the collar from?thanks I bought mine over the phone, but you can also purchase them online at their website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I tried an Innotek one on my GSD but found it to a little hard to get reliable contact through her thick fur. I then purchased a Dogtra one and found it a better choice for my dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBen Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think you need to teach your dogs recall... If your not the best thing that ever happened to them, they're not going to come back... especially not if you 'shock' them... They need to be taught recall before you use the device... Well... I think.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubyroo Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think you need to teach your dogs recall... If your not the best thing that ever happened to them, they're not going to come back... especially not if you 'shock' them... They need to be taught recall before you use the device... Well... I think.. Sometimes easier said than done, I attended obedience training with my bitch for over 4 years, she did perfect recalls, you could not fault them. But 100s of years of breeding in a versitile gundog, (who quite obviously has a very strong hunting instinct) just loves a chase!! I beleive my dogs should be able to run free, especially on my own property, but I wont have them killing things and the collar has saved them and many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laeral Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) I think you need to teach your dogs recall... If your not the best thing that ever happened to them, they're not going to come back... especially not if you 'shock' them... They need to be taught recall before you use the device... Well... I think.. Big Ben I use my e-collar as a tool to help train my dog reliable recall. Yes I had tried other avenues first but if I had known what I now know about e-collars, I would have got one alot sooner. I think you may not have seen someone actualy use an e-collar, or you would not make such a statement. I do not 'shock' my dog with the collar, it is used at a very low setting and is more like the tingly feeling you get from dragging your feet on carpet. With proper training and time the e-collar had been an invaluable tool to communicate with my dog. Like Rubyroo, my dog lives on a property and I discovered that at a young age she had a desire to chase chickens, kanagroos and probably sheep. With the use of the e-collar she now has a very reliable recall, and I am able to curb her desire to chase things. She can go everywhere with me and is a much happier and relaxed dog. ETA - Rubyroo, having been in your situation I would highly recommend giving K9 Force a call and going over their distance learning package. Steve helped me so much with my girl. E-collars can really make a difference if used properly. Edited January 16, 2009 by laeral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think you need to teach your dogs recall... If your not the best thing that ever happened to them, they're not going to come back... especially not if you 'shock' them... If you understood the nature of training a dog with an e-collar in the manner that both I and K9 Force use, you'd understand it is not a matter of "shocking" the dog. I'm happy to explain more, but only if you wish to know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke GSP Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think you need to teach your dogs recall... If your not the best thing that ever happened to them, they're not going to come back... especially not if you 'shock' them... They need to be taught recall before you use the device... Well... I think.. But what if your dog does come back but is a dog looking for a discount ie I will come back but i will chase this bird/roo/snake first and as soon as i have satisfied my prey drive I will be right with you? Especially if they have satisfied such a drive without you being present such as chasing birds in your back yard while you are at work for instance? The dog has assigmned a value to that activity and now when you recall the dog it is waying up the two values ie returning to you = Vs if i catch that bird/snake/roo it =. The dog has learnt that chasing the birds satisfies its prey drive all on it's own, repeatedly, perhaps several times a day? It is very hard to then compete with such a learnt drive manifestation and satisfaction on the two days a week that you would like to run your dog off leash (in addition to their daily on leash walks). It is not about whether the dog nows what to do but whether or not the dogs focus is on what you are saying or on the prey item that it is chasing and which of those activities has a greater value in the dogs mind. I am a little concerned at your "shock" reference as well as, modern e-collar methods are not usually about large corrections when training unless you are trying to give the dog a very negative perception of an activity such as the way that some people use e-collars for Snake proofing for instance. Saying that I would guess that most owners would prefer that their dog had a few negative but controlled snake like experiences and learnt to avoid such things completely rather than trying to figure out a strategy to deal with one once the dog is confronted with a full size Brown snake face to face. If i have misunderstood what you meant by the word "shock" then i apologise but it would probably be best to read up a bit on the way that collars are used these days before jumping to conclusions about "shocking" a dog. A lot of collar work is now carried out with tiny stimulations and i mean tiny ie my mother who was anti e-collar tried it on her own neck and on the inside of her own wrist and could not feel the stim at the working level for my dogs. I used a level of 12-14 out of a range of 0-127. The way that most collars are used now is more as a tap on the shoulder/prompt than a correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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