Puppy Biting - Nothing Working

[bozthepup]

I have just discovered DOL forum and loving it - so please excuse my barrage of questions !

Our lab is 10 weeks old, a very fesity boy and biting biting biting. He has probably one bad session a day, or maybe every other day. It generally starts as mouthing and usually during playtime although is sometimes an extension of him not getting his 'way' (eg .f I'm sitting in a chair he likes to try and jump up on or as a reaction to the 'off' command when he jumps).

During play, he will just drop his toy and latch onto feet, legs, anything - and he has drawn blood, albeit a small amount, from both me and OH. We distract him again with toy and he sometimes picks it up again but we always seem a better option.

We've tried the following and it always ends up with hims more excited, :crouching up and jumping at our face (if we're closer to his level) and barking and whining nonstop. Our list includes-

1. puppy yelping and whining - doesn't work

2. firm 'no' - doesn't work

3. growling at him and standing over him - doesn't work

4. holding his muzzle gently - the second we let go, he's off again, more excited

5. walking away - this works temporarily obviously, but he's almost always in an area that we want to be so even after waiting 30 secs - 1 minute he's back at us.

We don't want to put him outside or in the crate as this may create negative association with those areas. We've tried a couple of 'toilet time outs' - smallest room in the house where he can't chew or hurt himself. We've left him there for 3 - 5 mins; he just goes crazy the whole time.

Our most recent method as been putting him on his back and gently holding his neck - he squirms and squeals and gets very hysterical. Calms after a little while but when we let him go, is back up again, and at it.

We're keeping calm when he's in the 'act' but it's really upsetting.

Edited January 5, 2009 by bozthepup

[Kelpie_Pup]

Oh my gosh I know how you feel. Halle was like this for a few weeks. I used to tell me partner all the time that she just didn't like me!

How long have you been trying each method? If you're not being consistent in trying each one, I mean for at least a few days, puppy might see this as a game.. "Lets see what I can get out of them next time! This is fun!!"

We had the same issues with Halle very early on. We tried this, in this order:

-puppy-like whining and leaving play with her for about 30 secs, then returning .. this didn't work-she had no sympathy for our whinings!

-a firm grunty NO and holding her muzzle until she stopped wiggling and trying to get away.... this seemed to ramp it up even more and get her even more excited!

-then we finally cottoned on to the real problem and worked out how to fix it.

When we were playing with her, we were generally just using our hands. Since there was nothing else to play with, she thought these were her toys to do with as she liked. How was she meant to know any better?! She wasn't, we had to teach her.

We went and bought a few fun toys-she loves the squeaky ones- and made sure we always had one when we were playing with her, and generally another one close by.

As soon as she would put our hands, or any skin for that matter, in her mouth with her teeth, it was a big "UGGGH NO" and immediately put another toy in her mouth and praised her straight away... We figured this was teaching her that she is NOT allowed to play with our skin in her mouth,and when she does we get cranky!!! But she IS allowed to have toys, and this will get her good praise. It worked immediately. Didn't stop it immediately LOL but its definitely what we did until she ceased nipping, which was probably a matter of about 2 weeks. She continued to mouth our hands until she was probably 4-5 months old, which was ok with us as she never used any pressure, but after that she just stopped of her own accord.

In our case, we were doing a good job of telling Halle what she could NOT chew, but were neglecting to let her know what she COULD chew.

She was never a pants biter, or feet either really, so not sure about that.. I guess we would have applied the same method.

BTW, don't be concerned about putting puppy in the crate. It is not about punshing them for their bad behaviour-it is a good way to calm them down and contain them. He will love his crate no matter why he is put in there.

About 2 months ago, Halle had a go at me for the first time ever while she was eating her food, frightened the **** out of me! My partner was there and grabbed her collar (after giving her a fair smack) and promptly put her in her crate... hasn't affected her feelings towards it And she hasn't done it again. I can now take bones from her mouth without so much as a peep !

[Bilbo Baggins]

I have just discovered DOL forum and loving it - so please excuse my barrage of questions !

Our lab is 10 weeks old, a very fesity boy and biting biting biting. He has probably one bad session a day, or maybe every other day. It generally starts as mouthing and usually during playtime although is sometimes an extension of him not getting his 'way' (eg .f I'm sitting in a chair he likes to try and jump up on or as a reaction to the 'off' command when he jumps).

During play, he will just drop his toy and latch onto feet, legs, anything - and he has drawn blood, albeit a small amount, from both me and OH. We distract him again with toy and he sometimes picks it up again but we always seem a better option.

We've tried the following and it always ends up with hims more excited, :crouching up and jumping at our face (if we're closer to his level) and barking and whining nonstop. Our list includes-

1. puppy yelping and whining - doesn't work

2. firm 'no' - doesn't work

3. growling at him and standing over him - doesn't work

4. holding his muzzle gently - the second we let go, he's off again, more excited

5. walking away - this works temporarily obviously, but he's almost always in an area that we want to be so even after waiting 30 secs - 1 minute he's back at us.

We don't want to put him outside or in the crate as this may create negative association with those areas. We've tried a couple of 'toilet time outs' - smallest room in the house where he can't chew or hurt himself. We've left him there for 3 - 5 mins; he just goes crazy the whole time.

Our most recent method as been putting him on his back and gently holding his neck - he squirms and squeals and gets very hysterical. Calms after a little while but when we let him go, is back up again, and at it.

We're keeping calm when he's in the 'act' but it's really upsetting.

Hold the muzzle firmly and say in a firm voice no biting. Hold until he squirms. Keep doing this. This will definetly improve in about 3 days. But you must keep it up. It took about 2 weeks for Zarah our White Shepherd to stop copmpletly. I started at 9 weeks.

EFTypos.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Bilbo Baggins

[Dogsfevr]

Hes 10 weeks old & a gundog.A very mouthy breed by nature.Be patient .

It sounds like he has no clue what you want .in 2 weeks you have tried all those methods but the pup doesnt now why

You have to be consistent & stick your routine.

Im not a believer of holding the muzzle of a teething pup nor flipping them.It achieves nothing but more frustration & pain for the dog.

Your probably expecting the pup to understand more than it knows & that is where the frustration always starts & at this time your body language becomes a game for the dog.

I have gundogs.they are all mouthy till the day they die.It doesnt worry me because you cant change what there meant to do BUT you can educate them to be gentle.

My current youngster has progressed from being a tad hard to a gentle carry,he will walk my hand around anywhere when i allow it,he also understands that no means no but he is just 9months.

My nearly 9 yr also carries my arm around or anything that i allow ..

I think you need to go back to basics & work on small steps so the dog understands.if it is getting really over the top then use the crate,i do.The key is placing pup in not for discipline but simply to "settle".

Mine will happily hope in & curl up for which they are rewarded for that behaviour.

Also consider any cross signals given ,you cant allow one thing but not allow another ,pups understand yes quickly because it gets a response but when confused will either play up more because again it gets a response even if not desirable

.

Obviously there is a set time that you know this will happen so be pre armed.Have food/toy reward ready & use this "excitement" stage as a quick training session

[Cosmolo]

I disagree with settrlvr and wouldn't allow one of my dogs to put their mouth around any person, regardless of breed. I allow them to mouth lots of other things- but not people as i believe it is too problematic and confusing for many dogs. What is a soft mouth to me might be very different to someone else AND i have heard of cases where mouthy pups have been in trouble from the council when someone has greeted them out in public.

I give corrections for mouthing rather than ignoring or yelping- what correction you use will vary depending on your puppy. If you would like to send me an email, i can forward you some information. Are you going to puppy school at all? Your instructor should be able to help you if you are.

[Pixie's mum]

Our 2yo female had a similar problem when she would get over excited.

We carried a water spray bottle set to jet and shot her in the face (this was suggested at dog obedience). It is highly effective even with our dog that loves water. If it doesn't deter they suggested 10% white vinegar mixed in with the water as they don't like the smell (and keep adding up to 50% if need be). We didn't need the vinegar a growl and a spray stopped her every time.

We used this correction for any unwanted behaviours such as barking at other dogs and still use it to this day if our dogs start to wrestle inside the house. Most of the time a growl and a shake of the bottle works we don't even need to spray her.

Good luck.

[BittyMooPeeb]

I'm reading Ian Dunbar's book "Before and After Getting Your Puppy" and he says:

• respond to 'too hard biting' with a 'yelp' and withdraw for 30secs to 1 min. (maybe turn your back, leave the room etc)
  

• *do* let your pup mouthe while it is young to help teach it bite inhibition. However this should always be invited play, not a nip of your feet as you walk past LOL.
  
• once a pup is older (4.5 months say) start to not let him mouthe at all, until by around 6 months (say), no mouthing is tolerated.
  

I am a believer in letting a pup mouthe (on invitation) UNTIL she has learned to bite softly. If you stop mouthing before this time (IMO) if the dog ever does bite, you run the chance of it being a hard, damaging bite.

It sounds too like Boz is getting pleasure out of the current interaction when he bites you, so really make sure that a bite instigates withdrawl of attention. Even a telling off can be pleasant attention for a pup! Try *you* leaving rather than Boz being put somewhere, as this is what would happen if he bit a playmate too hard, and this is the most immediate withdrawl of attention. If you put him away somewhere, he is getting attention for a further minute or so *after* the bite. Keep the time you leave short, just enough so that he has time to reflect on the fact that what he did had a consequence. (1 min or so, maybe shorter initially).

I used this method to teach my adult Westie (who came to me at 18 months) bite inhibition, and it worked better than I expected on an adult dog. It took a long time with her though as she was already grown up.

ALSO: as you have a breed that naturally wants to use his mouth, make sure he has plenty of *appropriate* outlets. This includes toys (played with on his own and with you) and more importantly now, things like Kongs, stuffed with his dinner, to give him hours of chewing pleasure. Initually I would give him many of his meals from them, so he gets to love chewing them. Look up the Kong website to find out how to use them. Or buy Ian Dunbar's book :wink:. Rawhide chews etc and raw meaty bones will also give his mouth something to do.

Good luck! (and remember these are just my ideas. Nothing beats professional help )

[BittyMooPeeb]

Our 2yo female had a similar problem when she would get over excited.

We carried a water spray bottle set to jet and shot her in the face (this was suggested at dog obedience). It is highly effective even with our dog that loves water. If it doesn't deter they suggested 10% white vinegar mixed in with the water as they don't like the smell (and keep adding up to 50% if need be). We didn't need the vinegar a growl and a spray stopped her every time.

We used this correction for any unwanted behaviours such as barking at other dogs and still use it to this day if our dogs start to wrestle inside the house. Most of the time a growl and a shake of the bottle works we don't even need to spray her.

Good luck.

Hi Pixie's Mum,

The OP's dog is only a baby pup, so I would NOT suggest doing this. It may be appropriate for an older dog, but IMO should never be done to a baby.

I also dont think you should get vinegar in their eyes/nose even as adults. I use a spray bottle on my adults, but never squirt them in the face, and I only use plain water.

[Pixie's mum]

We also only use water however we were told to use vinegar if need be. I would imagine most dogs wouln't need the vinegar. A spray on the backside works well however if our dog if going feral we do squirt her in the face - which stops her - as she bites really hard (rarely now thank goodness) - but if she starts to bite we tell her no and growl - if she doesn't stop - she gets a squirt. She is quite a dominant dog though.

[Erny]

Bozthepup ..... perhaps I'm wrong, but it sounds to me as though you expect that each one or more of the things you've tried will effectively have 'ceased' the behaviour your pup is showing at the moment?

It is often helpful to get an opinion from someone experienced and who is able to watch your pup in action, but please be aware that your pup is 'learning'. Couple that 'learning' with the natural inquisitive behaviour of pups (and the fact they have an attention span of a gnat), IME it is normal for the pup to continue to 'try' out what it can do. Provided (a) the method you use does cause the pup to cease and (b) that it appears that the behaviour is at least abating, then generally speaking you may find you're on the right track.

And you don't have to stick with only one method. Use whatever is convenient/suits at the time. The aim is to get the message across to the pup that it won't achieve its goal (whatever that is .... often it's attention and often its simply 'fun') and that there are other (better) ways to achieve this.

I'm guessing you've only had pup for 2 weeks? Depending on the dog (some are softer/easier than others) this is not a very long stretch of time. Remember to be persistent and consistent. If you are not, pup will be recognising this and your behaviour training either won't work (and could result in the behaviour becoming worse, more ingrained and more difficult to resolve even when you do decide to become consistent) or it will work more inefficiently than it should.

I've dealt with fiesty pups where for the owner it seems the pup isn't 'getting it' and never will, but then it does.

I've dealt with 'soft' pups who catch on really quickly because they may not be as determined as the fiesty ones. My current pup is in the 'fiesty' category, and I swear I thought I would never be able to walk normally and unimpeded down my hallway without him latching onto the bottom of my jeans. I thought I'd never be able to get through one whole day without my shoe-laces becoming untied by "little Man". I thought I'd never be able to dress in the mornings without him wanting to latch on to whatever I was trying to dress in (eg. socks, knickers). I thought I would never be able to remove my dressing gown without him thinking I was waving around some sort of "drive" toy . And I felt as though it was going to be an age and a half before I never had at least one puppy tooth mark/tear to my skin on at least one of my hands. Of course, this is all in amongst me thinking there'd never be a time when I would be able to trust him to go outside to the toilet too.

I reflect back on those days - they weren't so long ago, and now I laugh. Well, I laughed back then too, because I really didn't think it would all "never" improve, but it just felt like it would take a long time. But it didn't. It just seems to dissolve into better behaviour and before you know it you're marveling at how much your pup has learnt and how far along your pup has come with his behaviour training. You just get this feeling that you're coming to understand your pup and he's coming to understand you and what is required of him.

I hope this has given you the hope and spirit to be determined to be persistent and consistent in what you do. Don't forget to communicate to your pup when he's doing the right thing too. This makes it all more easy to understand for your pup.

But if you're not certain as to whether your application of the methods that are all options to use depending on the circumstance/situation at the time, then get someone in to check and if necessary adjust what you're doing.

Pups are fun

Edited January 5, 2009 by Erny

[Dogsfevr]

We also only use water however we were told to use vinegar if need be. I would imagine most dogs wouln't need the vinegar. A spray on the backside works well however if our dog if going feral we do squirt her in the face - which stops her - as she bites really hard (rarely now thank goodness) - but if she starts to bite we tell her no and growl - if she doesn't stop - she gets a squirt. She is quite a dominant dog though.

Remember this is a lab .A water dog,spraying a lab in the face is like inviting it to have a party if your expecting a different result.

"I disagree with settrlvr and wouldn't allow one of my dogs to put their mouth around any person, regardless of breed"

We can agree to disagree but given my dogs dont have any social issues & are handled by juniors in the show ring,on display every weekend at shows,royal show & agi shows where the very young to old touch & have photos i can safely say my dogs behaviour is AI .

My eldest sat happily with my 93 yr old grandfather .My dogs now whats expected & what the social rules are.

Every tom,dick & harry at shows have happily held my dogs & will happily hold them again.

I deal with dogs every day,people who have used some of these methods with no success at all because they have lost the simple common sense approach & ended up so confused they give up.

people give up because it ends up so technical

We have no issues with these same dogs because we are patient,consistent & stick to simple rewards & expectations for age.

Labs are often the worse,The owners have made it into a war & the dogs have one.

My dogs are allowed to mouth me on my terms,there gundogs & im happy to accept that i own a breed that is mouthy & i will not punish them for something that is natural but i will happily train them to a happy compromise.

[Cosmolo]

No probs settrlvr- i just have a different view based on my experience. I do agree that consistency, patience and rewards are key and also agree that labs can be the worst

I also disagree with Dunbar I think its unfair to change the rules on a dog when they are 4-6 months old when you could have avoided the puppy practicing the behaviour in the first place. If you have the opportunity to be consistent from day one, i think we should be. Work out your expectations- settrlvr has different expectations to me and trains for that, i train consistently for my expectations (not to ever put your mouth around a person) from day one.

I believe that bite inhibition is learned most effectively with mother and littermates, other puppies and dogs as they get older etc. I don't think they need to learn bite inhibition on people. My dogs have very soft mouths and i witness incredible bite inhibition when i watch them interact with ecah other but were never allowed to mouth me.

I also wouldn't use vinegar- ouch!

[bozthepup]

No probs settrlvr- i just have a different view based on my experience. I do agree that consistency, patience and rewards are key and also agree that labs can be the worst

I also disagree with Dunbar I think its unfair to change the rules on a dog when they are 4-6 months old when you could have avoided the puppy practicing the behaviour in the first place. If you have the opportunity to be consistent from day one, i think we should be. Work out your expectations- settrlvr has different expectations to me and trains for that, i train consistently for my expectations (not to ever put your mouth around a person) from day one.

I believe that bite inhibition is learned most effectively with mother and littermates, other puppies and dogs as they get older etc. I don't think they need to learn bite inhibition on people. My dogs have very soft mouths and i witness incredible bite inhibition when i watch them interact with ecah other but were never allowed to mouth me.

I also wouldn't use vinegar- ouch!

Probably the method that's acheived the best (relatively speaking) result so far is distracting him to another toy - this works for periods of 30 secs up to a few minutes. I tried this again last night but wasn't 100% sure about the timing between scolding saying 'no', when he bites us, and praising when I shove the acceptable toy in his mouth or throw it for him. I thought perhaps the short time between scolding and praising might confuse him. And when he's really excited he'll take the toy but immediately drop it and latch onto us again. I'm afraid he did this in a really bad way last nite and bit OH badly, OH got very angry at him. We put him in his crate and OH stared him down while he yelped in crate - I thought it was more appropriate to walk away and ignore him. When OH and I both walked away (while OH put dettol on his bleeding hhand), he settled down and fell asleep about 7 mins later.

Ahhh .. raising children !

The other thing I didn't mention through other threads is he left his litter at 6 weeks - as first time puppy owners we know NOW that this was probably a little early, despite his independence.

Edited January 5, 2009 by bozthepup

[BittyMooPeeb]

I also disagree with Dunbar I think its unfair to change the rules on a dog when they are 4-6 months old when you could have avoided the puppy practicing the behaviour in the first place. If you have the opportunity to be consistent from day one, i think we should be. Work out your expectations- settrlvr has different expectations to me and trains for that, i train consistently for my expectations (not to ever put your mouth around a person) from day one.

I had a feeling you were going to say this . Well if it all falls in a heap with Magic, you know who I will be calling to tell me "I told you so"

In Nessie's case she hadn't learned bite inhibition and was already an adult, so I used my hand in play to try and teach her. I dont know in her case how else I could have acheived this. BUT that said, I havent gotten to the 'no hands at all' stage with her yet so may be in for a hard time

[BittyMooPeeb]

No probs settrlvr- i just have a different view based on my experience. I do agree that consistency, patience and rewards are key and also agree that labs can be the worst

I also disagree with Dunbar I think its unfair to change the rules on a dog when they are 4-6 months old when you could have avoided the puppy practicing the behaviour in the first place. If you have the opportunity to be consistent from day one, i think we should be. Work out your expectations- settrlvr has different expectations to me and trains for that, i train consistently for my expectations (not to ever put your mouth around a person) from day one.

I believe that bite inhibition is learned most effectively with mother and littermates, other puppies and dogs as they get older etc. I don't think they need to learn bite inhibition on people. My dogs have very soft mouths and i witness incredible bite inhibition when i watch them interact with ecah other but were never allowed to mouth me.

I also wouldn't use vinegar- ouch!

Probably the method that's acheived the best (relatively speaking) result so far is distracting him to another toy - this works for periods of 30 secs up to a few minutes. I tried this again last night but wasn't 100% sure about the timing between scolding saying 'no', when he bites us, and praising when I shove the acceptable toy in his mouth or throw it for him. I thought perhaps the short time between scolding and praising might confuse him. And when he's really excited he'll take the toy but immediately drop it and latch onto us again. I'm afraid he did this in a really bad way last nite and bit OH badly, OH got very angry at him. We put him in his crate and OH stared him down while he yelped in crate - I thought it was more appropriate to walk away and ignore him. When OH and I both walked away (while OH put dettol on his bleeding hhand), he settled down and fell asleep about 7 mins later.

Ahhh .. raising children !

The other thing I didn't mention through other threads is he left his litter at 6 weeks - as first time puppy owners we know NOW that this was probably a little early, despite his independence.

Hi Bozthepup,

have you been able to try any of the alternate suggestions today? Getting angry and prolonging 'punishment' due to anger isnt likely to acheive what you want, and (with such a young pup) you run the risk of making him fearful or adverse to certain circumstances - particularly if a fear period sets in. Can you and hubby go over the suggestions posted, and write down what you are going to do when he mouthes (or mouths too hard) and agree to stick to that for a few weeks. If anger is getting the better of your OH it might be time to consider a behaviourist. If your hubby stared at Boz as a show of dominance, or thought that Boz would know why he was being glared at, he (hubby) probably doesnt understand why Boz behaves like he does, so it would be good to focus on getting this information and learning how to effectively deal with Boz's unwanted behaviour.

Another suggestion (to add to the list!) you mentioned Boz being worse when he is "really excited". If this happens after a period of play or interaction, you could interrupt the play before you know he will reach that stage, and give him a few mins of down time in his crate with a chew toy. Being able to "calm down" is an important lesson for pups (I wonder how many acheive it!) and sounds like it will help you. I've started doing this to my own pup, as I noticed that after prolonged play he was getting a bit silly and carrying on and biting the other dogs, so now I let him play for five mins, then he gets cuddles and calming signals (tummy rubs etc) untl he calms down. I also put him away to have naps as he will get overtired and be silly too.

ETA some suggested reading:

The Culture Clash: A Revolutionary New Way to Understanding the Relationship Between Humans and Domestic Dogs. Jean Donaldson

OR

The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs ,by Patricia B. McConnell (Author)

Also:

On Talking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals (Paperback) by Turid Rugaas

Edited January 6, 2009 by BittyMooPeeb

[Tassie]

Had to laugh at Erny's description of the early days with her (not so) little one. That was my first week with my new boy.

Bozpup, you're right in that having your pup from 6 weeks has made your job very, very much harder. Those 2 extra weks with mum and litter mates is very important (though it doesn't avoid all the problems )

However, you've got to deal with what you have now.

I agree with everyone who has talked about consistency - and you have to try to stay calm too (yes, I know, that's definitely not easy.) I always try to have 'permitted' things within easy reach wherever I am in the house - toys, socks, plastic drink bottles, sticks if necessary, but anything, so that when the pup grabs me or my clothing, I can immediately remove his mouth from me and substitute something else, and immediately praise - maybe have a game of tug with the permitted thing, throw it for a retrieve - anything to make clear the distinction between what is allowed and what isn't. In a couple of weeks, my boy has progressed to usually recognising a firm "Uh-uh" as a signal to let go - I still re-direct him to a permitted object. The 'Uh-uh" acts as an interrupt to the mouthing behaviour, rather than as a real correction.

Remember that for a pup, even a negative response from you is still a response and rewarding. Since pups play mouthing games with other pups and dogs, where the other dog may grab the muzzle or hold the dog down, pup is likely to see this as part of a game, complete with sound effects.

My advice - get in immediately with your interrupt, and immediately redirect to a permitted object - or two, and make sure pup is praised for engaging with that.

As has been said, an off switch comes as built in equipment with all pups - but sometimes it is a bit hard to find, and needs some priming. It's good for pups to learn to spend nice time by themselves - with maybe a stuffed kong, or some squeaky toys or a bone or something. Then they can do the necessary chewing by themselves.

Make the right thing easy - be consistent and be patient.

ET fix typos

Edited January 6, 2009 by Tassie

[bozthepup]

No probs settrlvr- i just have a different view based on my experience. I do agree that consistency, patience and rewards are key and also agree that labs can be the worst

I also disagree with Dunbar I think its unfair to change the rules on a dog when they are 4-6 months old when you could have avoided the puppy practicing the behaviour in the first place. If you have the opportunity to be consistent from day one, i think we should be. Work out your expectations- settrlvr has different expectations to me and trains for that, i train consistently for my expectations (not to ever put your mouth around a person) from day one.

I believe that bite inhibition is learned most effectively with mother and littermates, other puppies and dogs as they get older etc. I don't think they need to learn bite inhibition on people. My dogs have very soft mouths and i witness incredible bite inhibition when i watch them interact with ecah other but were never allowed to mouth me.

I also wouldn't use vinegar- ouch!

Probably the method that's acheived the best (relatively speaking) result so far is distracting him to another toy - this works for periods of 30 secs up to a few minutes. I tried this again last night but wasn't 100% sure about the timing between scolding saying 'no', when he bites us, and praising when I shove the acceptable toy in his mouth or throw it for him. I thought perhaps the short time between scolding and praising might confuse him. And when he's really excited he'll take the toy but immediately drop it and latch onto us again. I'm afraid he did this in a really bad way last nite and bit OH badly, OH got very angry at him. We put him in his crate and OH stared him down while he yelped in crate - I thought it was more appropriate to walk away and ignore him. When OH and I both walked away (while OH put dettol on his bleeding hhand), he settled down and fell asleep about 7 mins later.

Ahhh .. raising children !

The other thing I didn't mention through other threads is he left his litter at 6 weeks - as first time puppy owners we know NOW that this was probably a little early, despite his independence.

Hi Bozthepup,

have you been able to try any of the alternate suggestions today? Getting angry and prolonging 'punishment' due to anger isnt likely to acheive what you want, and (with such a young pup) you run the risk of making him fearful or adverse to certain circumstances - particularly if a fear period sets in. Can you and hubby go over the suggestions posted, and write down what you are going to do when he mouthes (or mouths too hard) and agree to stick to that for a few weeks. If anger is getting the better of your OH it might be time to consider a behaviourist. If your hubby stared at Boz as a show of dominance, or thought that Boz would know why he was being glared at, he (hubby) probably doesnt understand why Boz behaves like he does, so it would be good to focus on getting this information and learning how to effectively deal with Boz's unwanted behaviour.

Another suggestion (to add to the list!) you mentioned Boz being worse when he is "really excited". If this happens after a period of play or interaction, you could interrupt the play before you know he will reach that stage, and give him a few mins of down time in his crate with a chew toy. Being able to "calm down" is an important lesson for pups (I wonder how many acheive it!) and sounds like it will help you. I've started doing this to my own pup, as I noticed that after prolonged play he was getting a bit silly and carrying on and biting the other dogs, so now I let him play for five mins, then he gets cuddles and calming signals (tummy rubs etc) untl he calms down. I also put him away to have naps as he will get overtired and be silly too.

ETA some suggested reading:

The Culture Clash: A Revolutionary New Way to Understanding the Relationship Between Humans and Domestic Dogs. Jean Donaldson

OR

The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs ,by Patricia B. McConnell (Author)

Also:

On Talking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals (Paperback) by Turid Rugaas

Thanks BittyMoo, this is fantastic. It's 40 degrees in Sydney today so Boz has done NOTHING ! He's been mooching about trying to keep cool, although we had a little play in his pool and he just pranced about, no biting. When the witching hour comes a little later into the evening, I'm going to continue with the replacement of my skin with a toy and praising him. Your crate / calm down suggestion is also a great one, thanks.

The books look good as well - and we're learning very quickly that the human relations and behaviour is what's going to make the difference. Are you a marriage counsellor also ??

[bozthepup]

My advice - get in immediately with your interrupt, and immediately redirect to a permitted object - or two, and make sure pup is praised for engaging with that.

Thank you !! The only real question I have is the timing between scolding for biting me, and praising for taking permitted objected; is this not going to confuse him with a quick change of 'attitude' ?

[Cosmolo]

I redirect 30 seconds after providing a correction if i have given one so i don't cofuse the puppy.

:wink: at BMP

[sox]

Hi I too have just discovered this site and it's fabulous!

Re your puppy biting I suggest you take your pup to puppy school - a good one that uses the latest techniques and teaches good behaviours rather than punishing unwanted ones. It can be tricky to find a good class but if you go to the Delta website they have a list of trainers who hold puppy classes. It's such an important time of a dogs life so it's worth putting the effort and research in now to set you, and your dog up, for a happy and confident life. I hope this helps, good luck...Nic