ktn Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Dear all, Bob my silky x who is ~10 years has developed a sagging belly about 1-2 weeks ago. I took him to the vet today as it looked particularly larger last night. The vet said that there is a hard mass in the area between the guts and skin. My vet felt the are and described it as a swelling to the pizzle and prescribed us antibiotics to try for the week, and the swelling does not improve, a biopsy has to be done to find out what it is. Has anyone any advice on what this could be and what I should look out for? It does not seem to hurt and he is eating and behaving normally. He has been slowing down though, he trails behind during walks, and does not jump as high as he could 1 year ago (although he can definitely run and jump for the squeaky toy like a crazy dog at home). He had been skipping a little during walks but that does not happen anymore since I moved to Eagle Pack in November which has glucosamine + warmer weather - which made me think it's arthritis afterall. I also didn't think too much about the swelling at first thinking he was just losing weight. I was trying to feed him 25% less in the past week thinking I should feed less with EP. He has also been gaining weight, about 1kg over 2 years to become 7kg and becoming rounder. But I *think* this roundness went away a bit from the dieting. Besides his 'normal looking' ageing behaviour, the unusual thing happening for over a month now is that Bob seems to prefer sleeping outside every night. Every night I will put him and his housemate Daisy, also a silky cross (with minor territorial aggressiveness at times), to bed i.e. dog beds 3 metres apart, I noticed that he will go outside to sleep, and come back inside to sleep in the mornings. Because it's warmer now I did not worry too much about that until now. However he has been sleeping on some gross pillows with dried up green fungi that I've left outside on the patio. Would that be a problem? Sometimes when he sleeps he leaves a small 1-2 inch diameter pee stain on the dog bed, but I think it could be residual pee. Otherwise he is a happy looking fella. I don't like him sleeping outside, and will try to get him indoors by moving Daisy in a different room to sleep as she's not a fussy sleeper. Does anyone have comments on this bizarre sleeping preference Bob is having? There were times during the night when Bob carelessly stumbles into Daisy's bed and gets snapped at, so I guessed this might be the cause of his concern during bedtime in the same room as her. What do you all think? Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Sorry to hear of your boy's illness.. he may have an infection... and feels hot and uncomfortable. Sleeping outdoors may enable him to find a cooler spot :rolleyes: If he has an infection/mass which is so noticeable.. then yes, he will be feeling it,and it will most likely be uncomfortable to walk/run... I hope the antibiotics are a help... and that he feels better soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 If it is a mass, I don't understand why the vet did not do a fine needle aspirate straight away? This is usually the first thing a vet does, even before antibiotics - if it is a tumour of some kind then the antibiotics would be pointless. Not saying it is a tumour, just that to check a lump it would be more beneficial to do a aspirate first. Fingers crossed for your pooch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 My old girl developed a sagging belly with Cushings Disease, she was with me for another 4 years after diagnosis. I would make sure he's comfortable at night, with easy access to somewhere to piddle without having to cross your cantankerous other dog's path. If he's feeling sick/tired etc., he deserves to be left in peace, not having to worry about anything. As for leaving him completely outside, it's not something I would do but I did have an old foster dog who would always sleep outside rather than inside, so in the end I put a crate out for her which made her even happier. Good luck, I hope it is something that can be helped. My vet recently said no to my request for a needle aspiration as she felt it wouldn't be accurate enough, I was surprised as I thought it was always the first thing they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktn Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Thanks for the responses. I only noticed it when it started sagging quite a bit so I hope whatever it is, it's not too late to fix dogmad, is the sagging with Cushings meant to feel lumpy, or is it just excess skin? I did some experiments last night, and think he could be afraid of the lights going out, hence wanting to sleep under the stars? This must have occurred after some drama they had in the dark one day :\ I'm going to get a nightlight - he deserves a peaceful sleep indeed. If we had to, I hope my vet can do needle aspirations - that sounds less risky than a full biopsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 With Cushings, the belly is bloated, they start drinking too much and they can have a tumour on their adrenal gland or pituitary. Mine had the pituitary tumour but still had the sagging belly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktn Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 I do not see any improvements, in fact it could be a bit larger as I can feel a raised bump going towards the upper abdomen. Could be an organ though as it's symmetrical. I will give the vet a call to say there's no improvements and if we can do anything earlier. I was also going through Bob's back hair and found lots of specs in some areas of what I think are flea droppings (stains a wet paper brown). Where and when did he get them? Do you guys think it could be related? Daisy looks totally clean though - wonder why. I have wormed them last month, but could it be tapeworms? I have an Excelpet flea collar but expired 7 months ago, not sure if flea meds are safe to use if a biopsy may be done. I'll need to do more reading on fleas - I have always thought I didn't have to worry about fleas/ticks in Canberra Would vets take a dog in if it has fleas? Appreciate any advice, Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Thanks for the responses. I only noticed it when it started sagging quite a bit so I hope whatever it is, it's not too late to fix dogmad, is the sagging with Cushings meant to feel lumpy, or is it just excess skin? I did some experiments last night, and think he could be afraid of the lights going out, hence wanting to sleep under the stars? This must have occurred after some drama they had in the dark one day :\ I'm going to get a nightlight - he deserves a peaceful sleep indeed. If we had to, I hope my vet can do needle aspirations - that sounds less risky than a full biopsy. Poor darling - my old stafford does not really like the dark much. A night light is a good idea ( we have one in the hallway for our old man). I do not see any improvements, in fact it could be a bit larger as I can feel a raised bump going towards the upper abdomen. Could be an organ though as it's symmetrical. I will give the vet a call to say there's no improvements and if we can do anything earlier.I was also going through Bob's back hair and found lots of specs in some areas of what I think are flea droppings (stains a wet paper brown). Where and when did he get them? Do you guys think it could be related? Daisy looks totally clean though - wonder why. I have wormed them last month, but could it be tapeworms? I have an Excelpet flea collar but expired 7 months ago, not sure if flea meds are safe to use if a biopsy may be done. I'll need to do more reading on fleas - I have always thought I didn't have to worry about fleas/ticks in Canberra Would vets take a dog in if it has fleas? Appreciate any advice, Kat All vets should be able to needle aspirate and it is much less invasive than a full biopsy (and cheaper). I would ask for it - our old staffy has Mast Cell Cancer and he has tumours aspirated all the time, just to see if they are tumours or lipomas. The vet just sticks a needle into the lump and sucks out a few of the cells (our old man just stands there while it is done). the vet looks at the cells under his microscope and can see if they are MCTs or fat cells - if in doubt they can send the cells away on a slide for confirmation but I think most are clued up enough to know from this procedure if surgery is required or not. When you go back to the vets just ask about the 'flea droppings'. Our lad has never had a flea in his life, so I don't even know what it looks like. Good luck at the vets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktn Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hi all, Unfortunately 2 physical examinations later, we do not see any changes in the area. My vet has recommended that we wait until next wednesday to see if any improvements happen over the weekend. I'll try to describe this lump in case anyone has seen this before. It feels like symmetrical long line-shape lump extended from the base of his you-know-where to be upper abdomen (along the area between the gut and skin), and my vet said that this area usually has fatty tissue and it feels like that's inflamed (not at all sure though). He has not seen anything where this fatty-like lump is extending forwards like a line (hence the sag). So it'll be an full mystery to my vet until he opens Bob up. My vet does not favour needle biopsies because it's difficult to get the right sample from the correct place, and I can see that point of view. I'm a bit at a loss at the moment. I dare say Bob is at his peak of health. We've started walking him later in the evenings now so he's trotting a bit more energetically than when it's hotter earlier in the evening. He's eating well and I think pooping OK too. I've started cooking for him so he's enjoying a varied diet. The only recent new thing I've done is to move to Eagle Pack in Nov, and also trying the Natural Balance duck and potato treats. Oh, and him sleeping outside for a good few weeks before me locking him indoors now with a nightlight. I also just this week found a very weird smelly thing in the house, looks like a yellow-coloured spine bone pieces of a small animal. He does find weird things in the garden I think. We have magpies dropping pieces of raw meaty bones in the yard, but this spiny discovery is a first :\ If it's not increasing in size, maybe it's not a bad thing. What should I do? Wait and see? I'm worried about doing biopsies as there's always this risk of opening him up, and if there's nothing wrong with him afterall it'll be pretty heartbreaking if anything goes wrong then :p Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Age Outlaw Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Personally I would be pushing the vet for some action, or else seeing a different vet for another opinion - after having these symptoms for so long I don't think I would settle for any more "wait and see" stuff. Hope you get is sorted out soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Personally I would be pushing the vet for some action, or else seeing a different vet for another opinion - after having these symptoms for so long I don't think I would settle for any more "wait and see" stuff. Hope you get is sorted out soon! I agree, I have never really understood the wait and see option when the symptoms have been there over a week. Good luck with the surgery. Let us know how you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktn Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thanks for the feedback - I appreciate it heaps. I did think of getting a second opinion but hesitated so it is always good to get someone like you guys to tell me to do the right thing I managed to get in touch with a large vet which has more resources. This vet confirms that it's going to be a 'difficult one', but could be two things: * Blockage in lymph system (sounds awful - does anyone know what can be done if this is the case?) * Classic cryptorchism and he has testicular tumour This vet said that a biopsy would not be able to diagnose such things, and they recommend an ultrasound to be able to see if it's either of the two. They can also do an accurate needle biopsy during the ultrasound of anything suspicious. Whatever it is, I just hope it's fixable as he's just behaving so well, eating, pooping, playing and all. Wish us luck! Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 at last you have some possible ( but remember not yet a diagnosis) an ultrasound will definitely help ... good luck. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Good that you now have more options, and hopefully it is something which can be addressed soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktn Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Hi all, Just some updates over here in chronological order: - ultrasound found that Bob has an enlarged prostate, but this didn't seem to be the main issue to the 'fluid build-up' / puffy tissue at prepuce area - urine test came out clean (no pathogens or evidence of abnormal cells, but can't be 100% sure this way), but they did note that his urine concentration is the same as the blood (low) and may be pointing to a hormonal issue - full body blood test came out clean - results today from first thin needle aspirate in area found fatty tissue, and histamine. The latter could be allergic reaction caused by mast cell tumours, but they could not see any in this sample. So we are going for another aspirate first thing next week to search further for any mast cells. He has been behaving as normal except for something I noticed just recently for a week - when he poops, he gets an erection :p Doesn't seem to be straining abnormally, but you see a bit of it sometimes, or all of it out. I've noticed it 5 times so far consistently during walks, but goodness knows when it's really started as I did not walk much while it was hot. My vet has not heard of this case before. Do wish us luck - I wish I've pushed for an aspirate to be done the first time now, it has been a month now. Him being his usual happy self has to be a good thing though, my SO thinks I shouldn't worry so much as the only thing wrong with him is this bulge! I wish it will be as easy as that. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Thanks for the update:) Sorry that you have no definitive diagnosis, but am glad that your boy is still happy in himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktn Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Good news!!! Several aspirates later - my vet is able to confirm that the sag is just harmless fatty tissue - so relieved! I hope others will find this info useful. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Are they going to remove the mass? Even though it is harmless some can grow quite large enough to be an issue with movement or other bodily functions... We had to have a large lipoma removed from behind his front leg years ago because it started to interfere with the way he walked. Same again late last year from in front of his back leg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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