A Few Challenges And Questions !

[bozthepup]

We have an adorable and very wilful 9 wk old Lab. We're first time Lab owners and I'm gathering from reading the forum that they can be challenging - which he is. That said, he's also doing lots of good things !

My main questions/concerns are:

1. We want to train him to be outside on his own - not for hours on end, but just when it's more convenient for us and ultimately as he grows up we'd prefer him to be an outside dog mostly. Currently, he yelps and barks at the back door. He's fine when we're out there with him. OH currently has a method where he stands at the door, and every time he barks (pup, not OH !) OH will open the door and scold him for barking. This goes on for some time ! Pup walks away, 'defeated', regularly but keeps coming back. OH is very patient and persistent with this but pup gets very anxious and quite vicious in his response.

2. Crate training - is it a good idea to put him in the crate at regular intervals (and lock the crate) - just to get him used to it ? We've tried it a bit and he just yelps til he's exhausted - and doesn't particularly seem to like the crate.

[Cosmolo]

Ignore him when he is carrying on at the back door- no eye contact, no verbal correction etc. He will get worse before he gets better and you must be consistent. It will stop and it does get better! Most dogs don't like the crate to start with- ensure there is a comfy bed, treats and toys in there and try to put him in when he is tired to start- again, ignore the crying and let him out hen he is calm and settled. Build up the time frame over a few weeks.

Beautiful puppy!

[lovemesideways]

We have an adorable and very wilful 9 wk old Lab. We're first time Lab owners and I'm gathering from reading the forum that they can be challenging - which he is. That said, he's also doing lots of good things !

My main questions/concerns are:

1. We want to train him to be outside on his own - not for hours on end, but just when it's more convenient for us and ultimately as he grows up we'd prefer him to be an outside dog mostly. Currently, he yelps and barks at the back door. He's fine when we're out there with him. OH currently has a method where he stands at the door, and every time he barks (pup, not OH !) OH will open the door and scold him for barking.This goes on for some time ! Pup walks away, 'defeated', regularly but keeps coming back. OH is very patient and persistent with this but pup gets very anxious and quite vicious in his response.

2. Crate training - is it a good idea to put him in the crate at regular intervals (and lock the crate) - just to get him used to it ? We've tried it a bit and he just yelps til he's exhausted - and doesn't particularly seem to like the crate.

1. By your OH opening the door, what you actually doing is giving the puppy the attention he wants. So hes learning that when he barks and carries on, Someone will open the door and give him attention.

What you should do. Is when hes outside and barking away, just wait until he stops. When he stops, count for atleast 8 seconds, as soon as that happens, open the door, and give him a Load of praise. Then repeat the exercise. Shut the door, wait for the barking to stop, count for 8 seconds then Yay lots of praise. By doing the your puppy will learn that by Not barking hes actually getting the attention he wants.

2. You should make the crate the most incredibly wonderful and best place to be. Give him all his favourite treats in there, all his best toys. My labrador rushes to his crate as soon as he sees us getting a bone out for him.

Also practicing the same exercise as leaving him outside will work as well. Put him in the crate, walk away, wait for the barking whining to stop. As soon as it does, open the door and give him lots of praise and treats.

Edited January 2, 2009 by JenIsAwesome

[Kelpie_Pup]

Couldn't agree more with the advice already given.

Absolutely ignore the behaviour at the door. Wait until he has been quiet for a good 10 secs, then go and give him praise for being quiet.. eventually make it longer. As a PP already said, he has now learnt that barking at the door will result in someone coming outside and giving him attention. And will get a little worse before it gets better, but persost.

Crate training is wonderful! Yep make it the most wonderful exciting place to be!! Chew toys, treats, nice comfy bed. Always toilet before putting in there and then ignore any wimpering-well don't get him out anyway! Maybe talk to him in a very nonchalant casual voice so he knows you're there but not so he thinks there is something he should be worried about.

Tough love works the best with puppies

[dogon]

Welcome bozthepup You've come to a great place for advice.

I've got a 9 weeker too and boy are they exhausting but it's worth it. Just to let you know crate training is a breeze if you stick to it. I only do it at night but he has a pen in the kitchen where I also put his crate during the day. at the moment I'm on holidays and he spends no time in the pen unless I'm going out. But I have my eye on him 24/7. If I can't he goes in the pen. Perhaps you could try him in a doggy pen inside for a while,\ - at least while he's so small and training is optimal. Fill it with all the things you want him to chew. My OH was dead against the pen and crate but I gradually worked him around and now he can see that it's a good thing. Confinement (as opposed to being outside) will keep him from learning bad habits, at least when he's small so when he finally goes outside he will have learnt that his toys are what he chews. For example if he's outside and you're not there he won't know that he can't chew the hose, your shoes or that rare shrub! unless you teach him first.

Essentially don't think that by leaving him outside that he will be out of mischief or toilet in the right spot. It takes time but I think all pups get there in the end.

Just some thoughts anyway

Good luck with him!

Edited January 2, 2009 by dogon

[bozthepup]

Couldn't agree more with the advice already given.

Absolutely ignore the behaviour at the door. Wait until he has been quiet for a good 10 secs, then go and give him praise for being quiet.. eventually make it longer. As a PP already said, he has now learnt that barking at the door will result in someone coming outside and giving him attention. And will get a little worse before it gets better, but persost.

Crate training is wonderful! Yep make it the most wonderful exciting place to be!! Chew toys, treats, nice comfy bed. Always toilet before putting in there and then ignore any wimpering-well don't get him out anyway! Maybe talk to him in a very nonchalant casual voice so he knows you're there but not so he thinks there is something he should be worried about.

Tough love works the best with puppies

Thanks all !

Crate is seemingly a very nice place for him - we feed him in there regularly and toys, old clothing of mine etc are all there. I guess it just takes persitence. On the issue of him being outside, after going 15 'rounds' with OH he is now outside playing happily and has been for 30 mins or so. Seems like it could be tough to reverse the training procedure; assume we should wait for a day or so to try the different method? Do pups remember things like this quickly ? He's a very cluey little fella.

[Kelpie_Pup]

OMG he such a beautiful choc Lab!!!

However you decide to tackle the issue, start now and make it permanent Just be consistent so puppy doesn't get confused by too many different rules or he won't know when to do what.

[Dogsfevr]

"OH currently has a method where he stands at the door, and every time he barks (pup, not OH !) OH will open the door and scold him for barking"

This is a form of teasing & confusion for the pup.

He is 9 weeks old & looking for confidence & reinforcement for what is right & wrong.

OH standing there & expecting pup not to react is pointless & he himself has taught the pup to behave in a manner that long term isn't wanted.He may get frustrated but its his own fault.All the pup nows at present is the door is shut,human is on the other side & it cant get in,some pups panic slightly & whine for a reaction.

How humans react can make or break the ease of long term training .

All our pups have a whinge when things change,its normal & after a few days of consistent training & pattern pup soon understands that you have trust in puppy & it can happily go off & wonder.

Also consider how the dog is being placed outside for independentance,is it low fuss,quiet ,calm No big deal,turfed out or the door shut when pup goes off to wonder on it own.

I dare say the pup has only been home a week.It has lost its litter mates ,its mum & all things its new as "home".

Pup is now learning what his new "home" is & what everyone expects.

Pup will going through total overload of different things & a week is a very short space BUT you OH also needs to understand pups learn from what we do.If we do this that are confusing pup will react to that .

[gmc]

Hey Boz

Our golden retriever is 9 weeks old today and we have been putting her outside alone for the same reason - we want her to be happy and comfortable outside without us and to ultimately be an "outside dog" except for chillout times at night etc.

We have found when we put her out she makes some TERRIFIC noise (who knew something so small could make so much noise!) but after absolutely ignoring her (no noise, no eye contact, nothing) it only takes 5 - 10 mins for her to go and entertain herself, and she will generally do so for at least an hour or more.

When we have discouraged her to bark; everyone here is totally right - it only gives her the attention she wants. I would say drop the discipline with the barking and just ignore. If you have blinds, draw them, we have found it helps. He will learn so quick!

Cheers and good luck.

[bozthepup]

Hey Boz

Our golden retriever is 9 weeks old today and we have been putting her outside alone for the same reason - we want her to be happy and comfortable outside without us and to ultimately be an "outside dog" except for chillout times at night etc.

We have found when we put her out she makes some TERRIFIC noise (who knew something so small could make so much noise!) but after absolutely ignoring her (no noise, no eye contact, nothing) it only takes 5 - 10 mins for her to go and entertain herself, and she will generally do so for at least an hour or more.

When we have discouraged her to bark; everyone here is totally right - it only gives her the attention she wants. I would say drop the discipline with the barking and just ignore. If you have blinds, draw them, we have found it helps. He will learn so quick!

Cheers and good luck.

Thanks again all.

Wow - I don't want to jump the gun on this but today when we put him outside (and drew the curtains) he had a bit of a whinge but not for long and then played outside happily for around an hour, just pottering around with his toys (and a tiny bit of digging!). Major progress - we hope this lasts !!

AND ... he's sat quietly in his crate for a couple of short stints today. (He is of course the smartest little lab in town)

:rolleyes:

.

[bozthepup]

Essentially don't think that by leaving him outside that he will be out of mischief or toilet in the right spot. It takes time but I think all pups get there in the end.

Yes, it takes some work not to just assume the toileting will look after itself and suddenly he'll 'know'. How is your 9wkold going with toilet training ? Boz still has a small few accidents inside but pretty much always poops outside (unless he's in the laundry on his own for extended period).