The 'off' Command

[bozthepup]

Hi bozthepup, I'm teaching 'off' by holding a treat in my closed fist. When he touches his nose to my fist to investigate I say 'off' . I was confused initially about what 'off' would actually mean to the pup and I've discovered that it's useful for getting him to leave things alone. But I have to catch him literally thinking about it. If he's in the middle of mauling the table leg then 'off' doesnt work -yet ;) BUT, he does look as if he's thinking about it so I guess I'm getting somehwere.

I think the best way to teach off couch/jumping is to ignore (for jumping) or say nothing and remove him from the couch. I've discovered that ranting and raving doesn't work and gives him more attention so, for example, when my pup jumps on me I ignore him, wait for all four paws to hit the ground and then praise him (or treat if I have one) I'm starting to see hesitations now, as if he's thinking twice about jumping. If I see this little brain blip happening I praise him for NOT jumping.

Moral is: catch them being good. Bloody exhausting :D

Hope this helps as I'm learning too.

Agh. thanks, yes it does help. My problem is he's got a nice combo of biting and jumping going - it's hard to ignore ! But I just started tonite with the treat in closed fist and he's getting better. We tried ignoring, we tried removing him quietly but he got bitey and more excited. Yes - exhausting !!

[Leema]

I use off in a similar manner to what you have said.

"Off" to leave something (e.g. food).

"Off" to get off people.

"Off" to get off the couch or the bed, etc.

I use drop for lay down.

I don't use "down" for anything (as yet).

For not biting me I use "uh-uh" - because "uh-uh" is used in my house like many people use "no". But I more used removal of attention/myself to curb this, and allowing the dog other items to bite, to dissolve this habit.

When my dogs learnt a cue for calm ("cuddly") I used that instead.

Dogs a pretty clever. As long as you are consistent, you can use one cue to mean several things, if they are quite contextual.

EDIT: I taught "off" furniture etc but clicking and treating the dog for jumping off the couch. I've found this to be great, as Clover flies off the couch with enthusiasm because she has formed such a positive association with getting off the couch.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Leema

[bozthepup]

Barkly thinks I'm stupid.

If he's in the lounge room and I'm in my office, when I get up off my office chair, somtimes I hear him jump off the couch. By the time I get to the lounge he's sitting on his cushion on the floor looking at me, wagging his tail all innocent like.

That's so funny - and cute ! I wish Boz was at that stage.

[bozthepup]

HI - feels like I am everywhere on this forum as I'm new - but figured this is best place to post this particular question.

What is the best way to teach 'off' command - 10 week old lab, very dominant.

We want him primarily 'off' couches and 'off' people that come to visit - but I'm sure we find other uses very very quickly.

thanks !

I guess there would be many ways to teach it... for us, if she jumped up on us, we just brushed her off firmly with our hand/arm. If she jumped on the couch, we removed her physically, or pushed her back off if it was just her front feet, and also a firm "OFF". If she was on a leash at the time, we would pull her of with the leash and use the command. Be very firm in your command.. don't ask, demand

Re jumping on people, it can also be useful to teach them to lay down and stay until they are told they may get up and greet the new person .. obviously a little/long way off since he is only so little, but useful!

Oh I miss having a little puppy.. gosh I forget sometimes how much training you really have to do!

So we've had a couple of 'off' couch training sessions, which are combined with biting sessions. This is very very difficult because if I push him calmly and say 'off', he just gets more and more excited and keeps it going (and bites) If I ignore him, he does pretty much the same, although seems a little better ... but he barks, won't get down and keeps biting me - and at this stage of his teeth development I cannot leave myself exposed because he'll hurt me and / or draw blood. This is getting very exasperating, albeit I need to keep at it. He just doesn't show one sign of abating. Or should I say abiting.

[Kelpie_Pup]

You're crating Boz aren't you? If he is getting tooo wound up, and you're getting frustrated(and likely to get cranky at him ) it is totally ok, IMO, to put pup in the crate to calm down.. and to allow you to chill out.

When we tried teaching Halle a formal down-stay, I would get extremely upset, as she was sooooooo persistent, and she just used to nip and nip and nip. I ended up putting on rubber gloves lol

You must outwit your puppy!!! Thats all it is a matter of

Edited January 7, 2009 by Kelpie_Pup

[dogon]

So we've had a couple of 'off' couch training sessions, which are combined with biting sessions. This is very very difficult because if I push him calmly and say 'off', he just gets more and more excited and keeps it going (and bites) If I ignore him, he does pretty much the same, although seems a little better ... but he barks, won't get down and keeps biting me - and at this stage of his teeth development I cannot leave myself exposed because he'll hurt me and / or draw blood. This is getting very exasperating, albeit I need to keep at it. He just doesn't show one sign of abating. Or should I say abiting.

Perhaps Boz should not be near the couch. Is this possible? Can you put him in the pen while you're in the room with the couch? If he hasn't got a couch to jump on then that's a problem solved. Once he's grown a bit and less naughty then you could let him back near the couch with strict orders not to get on it.

Edited January 7, 2009 by dogon

[bozthepup]

You're crating Boz aren't you? If he is getting tooo wound up, and you're getting frustrated(and likely to get cranky at him ) it is totally ok, IMO, to put pup in the crate to calm down.. and to allow you to chill out.

When we tried teaching Halle a formal down-stay, I would get extremely upset, as she was sooooooo persistent, and she just used to nip and nip and nip. I ended up putting on rubber gloves lol

You must outwit your puppy!!! Thats all it is a matter of

Yes, and his crating has really improved (I need to give the poor fella some credit !!! He is a beautiful and very smart boy which makes him all the harder to outwit !).

I have popped him in the crate a couple of times when he goes silly - and he's calmed right down, I probably need to do that more often (and earlier in the training session). I just hope he remembers what we go through until he gets too carried away (ie that we're making headway).

thanks again

[Kelpie_Pup]

Yes, and his crating has really improved (I need to give the poor fella some credit !!! He is a beautiful and very smart boy which makes him all the harder to outwit !).

I have popped him in the crate a couple of times when he goes silly - and he's calmed right down, I probably need to do that more often (and earlier in the training session). I just hope he remembers what we go through until he gets too carried away (ie that we're making headway).

thanks again

Sounds good Don't let the few little annoying things override all the great work you're both doing!! He sounds like a very clever little pup

[bozthepup]

its just me but i wouldnt be taking him away from the situation all together. I guess I believe in correcting the situation then and there instead of "removing them" all together. Your pup seems to be doing the biting for attention/frustration of not getting his own way. My girl also has a bit of a whimper etc (very sooky now though) when she wants to be up on the lounge but quickly learnt she is better off not trying.

maybe you need to keep him off the lounge all together at the moment push him down FIRMLY and give him the "mother in law look" if his bitting/jumping up (seems his doing this for attention/play) you may be better to stand up very "assertively" ignoring him completly for the attention seeking, but if then he trys to get behind you to jump up, push him off make a loud noise (almost the same thing you would do for his bitting) both you need to be very firm about it.

Of course if your getting annoyed/frustrated take yourself away from him. It seems that his not taking you "seriously" enough and maybe you need to be a little more "assertive".

The barking etc he should be ignored completly till he stops (no eye contact etc) the getting back on the lounge to "defy you" he should be pushed off firmly, but if you stand up and claim your space he technicly shouldnt try but if he does should be put back down.

Just my view.

Yes, it's perhaps a balance of the two - a bit of training that will get some message through, but watching for him being over excited. He certainly doesn't improve when I sit or lie on the lounge and either ignore or push him away; and it's just to hard not to react because he bites and hurts me. His reaction is almost human like - first he barks like saying 'no !! I'm coming up whether you like it or not', then it's ' I'm getting up !', then it turns to a whimper like 'Awwww, I want to come up, not fair".

The standing up works okay, but again, I feel like he's getting the attention he's seeking.

Either way, the biting and rising agression seems to come when he's not allowed to go where he wants (eg on the lounge or a chair) - so perhaps we just keep him out of the loungeroom altogether until he gets a bit calmer. It's just hard coz we want his company ! (and I'm pretty sure he wants ours)

[Kelpie_Pup]

Yes, it's perhaps a balance of the two - a bit of training that will get some message through, but watching for him being over excited. He certainly doesn't improve when I sit or lie on the lounge and either ignore or push him away; and it's just to hard not to react because he bites and hurts me. His reaction is almost human like - first he barks like saying 'no !! I'm coming up whether you like it or not', then it's ' I'm getting up !', then it turns to a whimper like 'Awwww, I want to come up, not fair".

The standing up works okay, but again, I feel like he's getting the attention he's seeking.

Either way, the biting and rising agression seems to come when he's not allowed to go where he wants (eg on the lounge or a chair) - so perhaps we just keep him out of the loungeroom altogether until he gets a bit calmer. It's just hard coz we want his company ! (and I'm pretty sure he wants ours)

OMG that is exactly what Halle used to do.. can I recommend some reading for you? Its an e-book that you download online-it costs about $14, and its written by an american lady who is a dog behaviourist, trainer, shower, breeder etc.. I don't have a Lab, but reading it reeeeally helped me with the issues I had with Halle about 3 months ago.

http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/ebookedit.../order_TYD.html

That is the link-well worth the money. It has totally transformed my relationship with Halle, who was a very cheeky, bossy little dog. Please please please have a look!

ETA: oops, its $19 for the 4 e-books-you pay online by CC and they get sent to you instantly.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Kelpie_Pup