The 'off' Command

[dogon]

My 9 weeker Rodney has learnt the 'off' command (when presented with a treat in a closed fist) and I was wondering how people utilize it in everyday situations. I imagine that I can use it whenever I want him to desist an action or resist a temptation. Rodney has also learnt 'down' from a 'sit' but I don't know if I can use 'down' for example when he is jumping up on a chair or on me. I've started using 'off' instead. I also intend to use 'off' when I want to stop him nipping which is, atm, all the bloody time Am I on the right track?

I feel fairly confident in most things so far but am just a bit confused about commands. I know that any word would do but I guess it's a matter of being clear in my head what a command is being used for and so I thought 'down' is used to control movement and 'off' is for terminating an unwanted behaviour. I'm interested in what people do and how they wrap their heads around training with commands. When, for example, should I begin to use a hand signal along with a verbal command?

Thanks for your thoughts

[Gayle.]

I use the word "drop" for the dog to go from a sit to lying down. Off is for getting off the bed, couch etc, and down is for getting down off me, when they have their paws up on me.

If you're going to use hand signals, use them from day one. It won't take the dog long to be able to cue from just a hand signal then. If you have plans to trial in obedience, use the correct signals from the start.

[TangerineDream]

I use

'gentle' for taking food,

'off' meaning 'stop bouncing on people' or 'get off the couch' or 'take your feet of the kitchen bench',

'out' for 'get out of the pantry' or 'get out of the car',

'down' for drop from a sit,

'ok' for 'go silly and do whatever your want'

I used to use a high pitched squeak 'owww' when Tango was mouthing as a youngster - that stopped that pretty quickly.

Lots of luck - getting your commands set is the hardest thing........

[Lab lady]

i agree with what GayleK said, but for the nipping i would use a very firm NO because it is a behaviour you want to stop forever. my dogs usually learn the hand signals before they really understand the words and you are right the word you use is of little importance as long as you use the same word and signal every time.

good luck keep up the training

[dogon]

I use the word "drop" for the dog to go from a sit to lying down. Off is for getting off the bed, couch etc, and down is for getting down off me, when they have their paws up on me.

If you're going to use hand signals, use them from day one. It won't take the dog long to be able to cue from just a hand signal then. If you have plans to trial in obedience, use the correct signals from the start.

Oh, ok thanks GayleK. Um...so is it too late to change verbal commands. I like the idea of using 'drop' instead of 'down' mainly because 'down' is an instinctual word when a dog is jumping up.

Ok...now I'm a little can I change things or will this just pup ?

Not interested in trialing obedience but am interested in having a well mannered doggy. Who isnt I just want to keep it simple

ETA: I posted this before others posted so thanks to LL and TG for your thoughts It seems that the rule is 'whatever works'. But yes, I will def. persist with a firm NO for nipping. We call him the Rodinator now coz he's a Rodney alligator

Edited January 1, 2009 by dogon

[dogon]

Another question, sorry. I'm sort of clueless about hand signals. If I use a closed fist with the word OFF then would that be the OFF hand signal? What should I use for DOWN - a flat palm making a down motion? What is a good hand signal for DROP?

Hmmm...maybe I need to go read up on this a little further. I hope I don't confuse the dog!

[Luke W]

OK - you've learnt OFF from Dunbar right? Me too.

Most people here use the command "LEAVE" for what you've taught "OFF".

You'd use your "OFF" command to tell him to not eat that, to stop sniffing that, to get away from that dog. Basically, it's a command that says "LEAVE IT ALONE".

You'd need a different command to tell him to get off the couch. For me, that's "ON YA MAT". A command to tells him to do something is better than a command that tells him not to do something.

As for when to introduce hand signals.

I introduce them, first - before the verbal. The verbal should not be introduced until the dog has the behavior.

for example, when teaching the down/drop a la Dunbar.

You lure into the down. Then you remove the treat form the hand and 'lure' with an empoty hand. Then you stylize the lure motion into a hand signal. Then when he's got that you introduce the verbal, 1 second before the hand signal.

I use DOWN too. Not DROP.

As already said - you have to get it clear in your mind exactly what each command means. It should be very specific.

Re hand signals...

I don't really have a hand signal for OFF...the dog aint gunna be looking at me when I need to use it!

Hand signal for down..I have two now...hand sweeping down, palm facing down. Also, a new one for longer distance work: two hands palm facing backwards, moving from center of body to outside of body.

[Kelpie_Pup]

We use "Off" to get Halle to get off whatever she is on that she shouldn't be.. a person, a chair, the couch etc. We don't have a hand signal for this.

Sit is a pointed finger towards her. Down, as in lay down on the ground, is a kind of sweeping motion with our pointed finger.. pretend you're drawing, in the air, the letter "C" backwards. Stay is a flat hand, palm facing down.

We use "Drop" to drop whatever is in her mouth..actually, "drop it"

We used hand singals right from the very beginning. We now very rarely need to use verbal signals with her.. she is now 12 months old, but this has been the case for at least 4 months.

I wouldn't advise using off for both "get off " and also "stop biting". You might say off when he is jumping and he might think "But i'm not nipping this time!" We used a strong firm "UGH NO". We tried the little wimpering ouch, imitating a littermate, but it wasn't enough for Halle.. she had no pity on us. She was pretty headstrong so needed somethign a bit firmer.

With resisting a temptation, "leave it" is what I would recommend.

Hope that helps

[dogon]

OK - you've learnt OFF from Dunbar right? Me too.

Thanks Luke. Actually no, I'm using Gwen Bailey's book 'The Perfect Puppy' but I read it ages ago and remembered the lure part but not the hand signal part. She teaches a voice cue first and then adds in the hand signal for DOWN. so I guess it is flexible. (suppose I could have checked that before posting here, duh!) What book of Dunbar's teaches commands. I don't remember it in 'Before you get an alligator...oops...I mean Puppy'

Anyway, Good news! I just tried using a pointed finger with the dog as I was commanding sit and he sat then I gradually left out the vouce cue and just added a pointed finger - he got it straight away. Clever Pup! Now I'm luring the down with a treat in a face down palm which I sweep down in front of him. I'll do the same and gradually leave out the voice cue. Wish me luck!

Kelpie pup I will def use a flat palm for stay - that is easiest I think. We aren't up to stay yet since recall needs massive working on as he decides when he wants to come atm naughty pup

I'm also trying to get him to focus on me at all times using a lure - as in eyeball to eyeball- but I think he's a little too wee to be able to look up at me. Should I get down to his level or just persist from a low crouch?

Thanks again guys - your advice is awesome

Edited January 2, 2009 by dogon

[Kelpie_Pup]

Kelpie pup I will def use a flat palm for stay - that is easiest I think. We aren't up to stay yet since recall needs massive working on as he decides when he wants to come atm naughty pup

I'm also trying to get him to focus on me at all times using a lure - as in eyeball to eyeball- but I think he's a little too wee to be able to look up at me. Should I get down to his level or just persist from a low crouch?

Thanks again guys - your advice is awesome

Good work!! It's so rewarding to see them learning and fiduring out hwo to please you isn't it

Don't worry about the recall yet.. Halle didn't recall every time until she was 11 months old.. she has always been a very head strong puppy though-tricky for us since we're first timers!! A handy hint though.. don't ask them to come if you think there is a chance they might not . If you say "come", or whatever your command may be, and they don't come just ONCE, they might/can think it is an optional command. We learnt that the hard way and it took a while to correct. We then only used it when we had a treat to reward her with, or if she was on a lead so therefore didn't have a choice but to come

When you say trying to get him to look at you at all times, is this only during training sessions to assist with other training ?? or are you trying to train him to keep eye contact with you specifically? I used a really good method to train Halle to maintain eye contact with me.. let me know if thats what you mean.

Yes getting down a little bit is ok, but not right down on his level-you must always be above him in the rank-literally and metaphorically

Edited January 2, 2009 by Kelpie_Pup

[Luke W]

OK - you've learnt OFF from Dunbar right? Me too.

Thanks Luke. Actually no, I'm using Gwen Bailey's book 'The Perfect Puppy' but I read it ages ago and remembered the lure part but not the hand signal part. She teaches a voice cue first and then adds in the hand signal for DOWN. so I guess it is flexible. (suppose I could have checked that before posting here, duh!) What book of Dunbar's teaches commands. I don't remember it in 'Before you get an alligator...oops...I mean Puppy'

Anyway, Good news! I just tried using a pointed finger with the dog as I was commanding sit and he sat then I gradually left out the vouce cue and just added a pointed finger - he got it straight away. Clever Pup! Now I'm luring the down with a treat in a face down palm which I sweep down in front of him. I'll do the same and gradually leave out the voice cue. Wish me luck!

Kelpie pup I will def use a flat palm for stay - that is easiest I think. We aren't up to stay yet since recall needs massive working on as he decides when he wants to come atm naughty pup

I'm also trying to get him to focus on me at all times using a lure - as in eyeball to eyeball- but I think he's a little too wee to be able to look up at me. Should I get down to his level or just persist from a low crouch?

Thanks again guys - your advice is awesome

Gwen Bailey is very Dunbar

Dunbar teaches commands in his videos.

Quite often the lure becomes a hand signal.

In the case of down/drop, you move the lure from dogs eye level to the ground. Then you do the same thing without the lure. Then you gradually keep the same motion but start higher and finish higher. Until eventually you are starting at shoulder level and finishing at hip level.

[dogon]

Good work!! It's so rewarding to see them learning and fiduring out hwo to please you isn't it

Don't worry about the recall yet.. Halle didn't recall every time until she was 11 months old.. she has always been a very head strong puppy though-tricky for us since we're first timers!! A handy hint though.. don't ask them to come if you think there is a chance they might not . If you say "come", or whatever your command may be, and they don't come just ONCE, they might/can think it is an optional command. We learnt that the hard way and it took a while to correct. We then only used it when we had a treat to reward her with, or if she was on a lead so therefore didn't have a choice but to come

When you say trying to get him to look at you at all times, is this only during training sessions to assist with other training ?? or are you trying to train him to keep eye contact with you specifically? I used a really good method to train Halle to maintain eye contact with me.. let me know if thats what you mean.

Yes getting down a little bit is ok, but not right down on his level-you must always be above him in the rank-literally and metaphorically

Thanks Kelpie pup. Well, I guess I would like Roddy to be looking at me during training but also in general because I think it is a good idea to have a dog focused/tuned to his handler - especially if danger is approaching ie. car etc. Any advice is good I have read about the TT method but I'm not so sure that I want Roddy to be exclusively focussed on me as he will have OH and my son to obey as well. Does this make sense?

Regarding recall, I have made the mistake of calling him once when he was asleep under a chair - fat chance of getting him out from there in puppy slumber mode I hope this one incident didn't cause his little habit of assuming recall to be an option

[dogon]

Gwen Bailey is very Dunbar

Dunbar teaches commands in his videos.

Quite often the lure becomes a hand signal.

In the case of down/drop, you move the lure from dogs eye level to the ground. Then you do the same thing without the lure. Then you gradually keep the same motion but start higher and finish higher. Until eventually you are starting at shoulder level and finishing at hip level.

cool! That's exactly what I'm doing....I must be thinking right then. Cheers for that Luke. Its always great to get your take on a matter. Our little cocker fellas are such gorgeous doggies, aren't they!!!

[Luke W]

cool! That's exactly what I'm doing....I must be thinking right then. Cheers for that Luke. Its always great to get your take on a matter. Our little cocker fellas are such gorgeous doggies, aren't they!!!

The best!!

[Guest Willow]

My 9 weeker Rodney has learnt the 'off' command (when presented with a treat in a closed fist) and I was wondering how people utilize it in everyday situations. I imagine that I can use it whenever I want him to desist an action or resist a temptation.

I use the word "leave" (you could say "bananas" for all it matters....it's just a noise associated with an action to the dog), and practical applications I use it for would be:

Leave the bluetongue alone

Put the snake down

My dinner might be on the coffee table, but don't touch it.

I don't know what could be in that carrier bag, but don't investigate it (on the beach)

Don't eat the blowfish

Don't hassle the guy who is fishing or eat his bait

That other dog looks unhappy, walk away from it.

"leave" in our family means "whatever you're doing RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT stop it & come back to me, because I have somehting better". Everyday compliance would get praise, if it's taken a monumental effort for the dog (ie I have asked him to leave the half eaten maccas and he has) then he would get a treat for that!

"leave it" saved my dogs life when he grabbed a large brown snake in the bush, and I asked him to leave it and he dropped it and trotted back to me......boy did he get a jackpot for that one!!!! I couldn't believe my eyes!!!!

[dogon]

Great story about the snake, Willow- a life saver indeed! My kitchen cupboard handles are happy now coz I told him 'off' and he left them alone. Cupboard handles very happy now.

[bozthepup]

HI - feels like I am everywhere on this forum as I'm new - but figured this is best place to post this particular question.

What is the best way to teach 'off' command - 10 week old lab, very dominant.

We want him primarily 'off' couches and 'off' people that come to visit - but I'm sure we find other uses very very quickly.

thanks !

[Kelpie_Pup]

HI - feels like I am everywhere on this forum as I'm new - but figured this is best place to post this particular question.

What is the best way to teach 'off' command - 10 week old lab, very dominant.

We want him primarily 'off' couches and 'off' people that come to visit - but I'm sure we find other uses very very quickly.

thanks !

I guess there would be many ways to teach it... for us, if she jumped up on us, we just brushed her off firmly with our hand/arm. If she jumped on the couch, we removed her physically, or pushed her back off if it was just her front feet, and also a firm "OFF". If she was on a leash at the time, we would pull her of with the leash and use the command. Be very firm in your command.. don't ask, demand ;)

Re jumping on people, it can also be useful to teach them to lay down and stay until they are told they may get up and greet the new person .. obviously a little/long way off since he is only so little, but useful!

Oh I miss having a little puppy.. gosh I forget sometimes how much training you really have to do!

[dogon]

Hi bozthepup, I'm teaching 'off' by holding a treat in my closed fist. When he touches his nose to my fist to investigate I say 'off' . I was confused initially about what 'off' would actually mean to the pup and I've discovered that it's useful for getting him to leave things alone. But I have to catch him literally thinking about it. If he's in the middle of mauling the table leg then 'off' doesnt work -yet ;) BUT, he does look as if he's thinking about it so I guess I'm getting somehwere.

I think the best way to teach off couch/jumping is to ignore (for jumping) or say nothing and remove him from the couch. I've discovered that ranting and raving doesn't work and gives him more attention so, for example, when my pup jumps on me I ignore him, wait for all four paws to hit the ground and then praise him (or treat if I have one) I'm starting to see hesitations now, as if he's thinking twice about jumping. If I see this little brain blip happening I praise him for NOT jumping.

Moral is: catch them being good. Bloody exhausting :D

Hope this helps as I'm learning too.

Edited January 6, 2009 by dogon

[Luke W]

Barkly thinks I'm stupid.

If he's in the lounge room and I'm in my office, when I get up off my office chair, somtimes I hear him jump off the couch. By the time I get to the lounge he's sitting on his cushion on the floor looking at me, wagging his tail all innocent like.