Clyde Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I've recently take on a Shihtzu I've named Gertrude. She was rescued from a life as a breeding bitch in substandard care and cheap food. When I got her her skin was fine and she had an even coat. Both ears were dense with hair and malasessia present. We are still battling this. I've since learnt she is allergic to fleas. She is definitely covered for fleas but if one bites her she falls apart. Due to my grooming business being at home she may get one a week, but often it is dying when I see it. She hasn't had a flea on her for probably about two weeks, I am Aloveening her every 5 days. She scratches all the time and I am at my wits end. I've never had a dog I couldn't fix the itching with so now I need help and to learn more about allergies. Sometimes she feels hot to touch. I took her to a vet I trust yesterday whose plan of action is to start Gertie on Hills Z/D (I chose tins as she wont eat dry). We're hoping it is a food allergy. In the meantime, as I've been told to build the Hills up over 7 days Gertie is on Fenergan to give her some relief. We started this tonight. The vet has suggested a blood test. She said all up with the other processes and consults I am looking at around $1000 going down the blood test route. She said there was also a skin prick testing method? Even if the Hills works, I don't want her eating that forever so think I should do the blood tests to see what it is setting her off? Was talking to a friend this avo with an itchy dog who had it done and the tests came back that the dog wasn't allergic to anything so is this test a waste? Would this Evening Primrose Shampoo I've seen talked about be better than the Aloveen in terms of relief? While I'm managing to keep sores at bay her coat is thinning in spots. I just feel so awful but cant understand that she came to me fine from such a hell hole and now she has gone to sh*t I would really appreciate any advice or ideas! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Rules Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 For an allergic reaction to just one flea bite, I would be using an antihistamine for when this happens as it should give her relief from itching, and the reaction should be lessened. Phenergan is a strong antihistamine but I doubt she would be on this long term? I know it makes them sleepy as well sometimes. Also, have you thought of a more bland diet of chicken, veges and rice? There are other low allergen foods as well you could consider rather than the Hills cans. The only thing I would say for certainty is that you need to try one thing at a time so you can work out what works and what doesn't so if you have the Hills canned, use that for a few weeks before changing to something else. What about dry food soaked in water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajtek Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Clyde, try megaderm - a concoction of omega 3, omega 6, zinc and trace elements. I cannot praise it enough - Kluska's summer itches have disappeared since we started her megaderm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Thanks guys for the suggestions. Farty I've been assured the Hills is less of an allergen than chicken even though there is chicken in it. Something to do with micro somethings or other that make it an allergy free chicken. I would worry that dry would have too many unknowns, or did you mean the Hills dry? Yes we just started the Phenergan tonight, to be given three times a day until Gertie is eating just the Hills. She needed some relief asap. The vet did mention she would be sleepy, I'm hopeful :D Anna - I asked the vet about Megaderm but the Natures Vet Omega 3 liquid was recommended in lieu of and I have found it at a great price online. However she is already getting one 1000mg tablet of Omega 3 every day (human tablets). From my rough calculations this roughly equates to the Natures Vet Omega 3 dosage?? So should I use Megaderm aswell? Edited December 30, 2008 by Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jemappelle Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Obviously she is allergic to the good life! I second the Megaderm and good luck with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgirl Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Obviously she is allergic to the good life! I second the Megaderm and good luck with her. Where does one get Megaderm from? Sounds worth a try for my itchy one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 What was she feed before you rescued her?? Maybe the drastic change of diet & environment has OD her system.As dumb as it sounds i would be placing her back on the old diet (if i new it ) see what happens. If its a food allergy & she was in good nick & has crasehed in your care than consider what you where feeding?? What where you feeding?? Have you used any flea treatment spot ons?? As for products the best around i have heard is Eqyss,not cheap but apperantly worth every cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 I don't know what she was fed in her first home, but apparently it was bottom of the barrel type stuff. In her secondary place of 'care' she was there for 6 weeks and fed Good O's. She was desexed the day before coming here. I've been using Advantix and/or Permoxin and I've been feeding her ready made BARF mix plus bones and the odd tin of sardines. Will sus out Eqyss, Thanks. We do have foxes in our area so vet has asked me to treat her with revolution to rule out fox mange although she said it's not likely. Jemaps is kindly bringing some Revolution over on Saturday. Ausgirl - vetpetndirect have good price on Megaderm. Does anyone know if there's any difference b/w NatureVet Omegas vs. Megaderm? I've had quite a few people recommend Megaderm now but wondering why the vet suggested Nature Vet instead? Blow it, I'll get Megaderm online now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajtek Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Clyde, I have tried Kluska on other omega supplements, but this is the only one that works for us. If you decide to give it a go, I would just go Megaderm and no other supplements. Check out specials on www.vetproductsdirect.com.au/itemdesc.asp?ic=1707&eq=&Tp=. Good luck Clyde, I just saw your post. Megaderm was recommended to me by a vet who I absolutely trust. He has helped me with lots of things (at no cost) via Kluska's breeder. Pity he is in far Qld and I have never met him. Edited December 30, 2008 by Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 You could be seeing a detox reaction from the improvement in diet Clyde. I'd definitely be avoiding any grains and artificial colours and flavours. I hope this is just a phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniMum Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 She scratches all the time and I am at my wits end. I've never had a dog I couldn't fix the itching with so now I need help and to learn more about allergies.The vet has suggested a blood test. She said all up with the other processes and consults I am looking at around $1000 going down the blood test route. She said there was also a skin prick testing method? Hi, can I say I know how you feel. We have a boy who was to be used as a backyard sire and fed bottom of the barrel stuff. Both his ears were in a terrible state when he came to us too. At first all was okay, but then the scratching began, along with chronic ear problem. After ongoing but unsuccessful treatment for his ear, our vet eventually gave our guy a cortison injection to see what would happen. All his symptoms stopped, which indicated allergies. We have since had the pinpricking (intradermal) tests and found he has atopy. This is all very recent for us and we have yet to begin treatment for the allergies as his ear issue is paramount. In our case, I'm glad we had the tests done as now we have a starting point for helping our little guy. This time of year can be bad for allergies, so it could be a seasonal thing. For some reason this year is bad here (Qld), worse than usual (I know because my son and I have allergies) We never had blood tests done, but the initial cost for consult with the specialtist and the intradermal testing along with meds was about $500. This is what TD looked like following his tests, poor baby. Good luck with it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Clyde, I just saw your post. Megaderm was recommended to me by a vet who I absolutely trust. Sold thanks Anna, I will grab some You could be seeing a detox reaction from the improvement in diet Clyde.I'd definitely be avoiding any grains and artificial colours and flavours. I hadn't thought of that. She doesn't get any nasties, but I've had her now almost two months so would have thought I would have seen an improvement rather than increasingly getting worse? We have since had the pinpricking (intradermal) tests and found he has atopy. Thanks Minimum for your post. He's a lovely boy even if his tummy looks a sight So I wonder what the difference is b/w the blood tests and the pin pricking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 We've had the blood tests, the first time it came back as totally negative, the Vets sent it through to another Lab and it came back with quite a few positives most of which we have now proven to be false positives, we spent just over $500 for the desentising injections which did nothing. If you say she falls apart with the one flea why are you looking for an alternative allergy answer....are you not totaly sure it's a Flea Allergy? I believe there is no such thing as a Food Allergy, it's actually food intolerance and it's the rarest form compared to Atopy etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 So I wonder what the difference is b/w the blood tests and the pin pricking? Reliability of results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 If you say she falls apart with the one flea why are you looking for an alternative allergy answer....are you not totaly sure it's a Flea Allergy? Because she hasn't had a flea in so long and the scratching isn't in the typical 'flea zone'. The past couple of days has escalated to her paws and under her chin - definitely no fleas. QUOTE (Clyde @ 30th Dec 2008 - 09:55 PM) So I wonder what the difference is b/w the blood tests and the pin pricking? Reliability of results. Which would you say is more reliable? I believe there is no such thing as a Food Allergy, it's actually food intolerance and it's the rarest form compared to Atopy etc. With the Barf, she will be on lamb for one week, chicken the next and so on. Sometimes the roll is mixed meat. The scratching is the same all the time, not up and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rappie Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I haven't got time right now to do a 'skin' post right now but feel to PM me if you want to and I can reply when I've got time to scratch (*grin*). I believe dermatology gives Charles the heebies, but it doesn't scare me To answer the most pressing question, Megaderm is the schiznit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 I saw you there Rappie and was hoping you'd post Will pm you now so it's in your inbox for when you're free. Much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 , Megaderm is the schiznit... Thank Dog for Google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 For the elimination diet you need to be on it for AT LEAST 7 weeks with NOTHING else... the vet did tell you that right? No supplements or anything... they could all be things she is allergic to... you haven't a clue what she has had in the past and you need her on totally novel foods for elimination so in her case Z/D probably is best option... If you are giving her extras on top of the novel food then it ain't gonna work... Fish are a common allergen and most EFAs have fish oil... Make sure your antihistamines have no additives like lactose or soy fillers. I hadn't thought of that. She doesn't get any nasties, but I've had her now almost two months so would have thought I would have seen an improvement rather than increasingly getting worse? Yep, I would expect improvement too... and if you talk to the top nutritionalists (like Monica Segal) they say "detox" is not a real effect anyway... So I wonder what the difference is b/w the blood tests and the pin pricking? Intradermal (prick test) skin testing is the gold standard for assessing atopy. The HESKA Elisa blood panel should only be used in conjunction with intradermal or in cases where intradermal can't be done for some reason. Blood tests SHOULD NOT be used to assess food allergy... a derm will tell you that they do not work well for such due to the nature of food allergy in the dog. See this info from my Derm: NOT at all possible to diagnose food allergy on blood tests; only method to diagnose is elimination diet. The reason behind this is that blood or intradermal testing only assesses a type I hypersensitivity reaction (IgE mediated) and this is the mechanism behind atopy. In human food allergies (or adverse food reactions as they now more correctly called) this is a type I hypersensitivity. In dogs (and cats) this has not been established and it is believed that individual dogs can have different hypersensitivity reactions (Type I, type IV, non-immunological). If you want to do this all properly I would outlay the money and consult with a good Derm... they have all the skills and tools you need to do it properly the first time and save you money in the long run! If you say she falls apart with the one flea why are you looking for an alternative allergy answer....are you not totaly sure it's a Flea Allergy? It would be very rare for a dog to have one true allergy in isolation, so chances are if there's one there are others. I believe there is no such thing as a Food Allergy, it's actually food intolerance and it's the rarest form compared to Atopy etc. Yes there are true food allergies and also intolerance as well, it can be hard to tell them apart, they are grouped together correctly as "Adverse food reactions". If this were my dog I'd get a ref to a Derm and start with them... Sounds like Atopy to me and maybe some other things. How old approx do you think she is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) The most important thing with allergies is working out what you are treating... there's no point throwing a lot of stuff at the dog if you don't know... get through testing and then you can start looking at options for things as you may be trying things that the dog is potentially allergic to. Also I would be using a medicated shampoo if she has bad yeast infection... And it might also be worth looking at other diseases that produce itching etc. like thyroid... ETA: Also if you haven't looked at this thread: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=149694 you may want to as I put a lot of info here... Edited December 30, 2008 by zayda_asher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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