How To Spray Insecticide In Garden, If Pets Eat Grass?

[midnightmint]

Hiya

My garden (and whole surrounding area) in suburban Sydney is ridiculously infested with fleas (almost every home has dogs or cats, and it's a very sandy area, so I guess it is no surprise).

This is my current flea treatment routine, which I have been doing for years, and seems to do virtually nothing in reducing fleas during summer:

Advantage + Sentinel on my dog

Advantage spot-on, on male cat (this seems to get better results than other spot treatments)

Frontline Plus spot-on, on female cat (she has reactions to every other spot-on- goes a little bit crazy and drools a lot; but she is okay with Frontline Plus spot-on).

I am just about to also give Program oral suspension to the male cat, so he is covered for flea eggs/larvae.

I sprayed the house and pet bedding with Exelpet FleaBan about two weeks ago, and put the usual Advantage spot treatment on my dog. Within about an hour, he had what seemed to be his first seizure, or it could have been a heart attack. I bathed him again immediately, to get the Advantage off him. Since then, he has been quite unwell generally (breathing problems, maybe some sort of pain, a bit of reflux? The vet could not diagnose anything besides a "harmless" heart murmur). This dog is 16 yrs old. Both products have been used before around him, but I'm concerned that due to his age and fragility, maybe one of these chemicals does not agree with him anymore. Exelpet FleaBan is a permethrin substance, so I am avoiding permethrin and pyrethoids now (except flea shampoo, which I guess would only contain a small amount and have brief contact with the dog). I'm a little concerned about all chemical products with him now, so I'm even reconsidering giving him the Sentinel tablets from now on. I haven't re-tried the Advantage on him yet, but I will once the 30 days has passed.

In the past, the ONLY way I was able to eradicate fleas, was to do the above spot-on treatments and oral flea larvae preventatives; and Capstar tablets, in combination with the FleaBan house/carpet spray (indoors) and Baygon "D.I.Y. Outdoor Expert" insecticide (Bifenthrin) spraying the outdoor garden areas. The fleas are definitely outside, in abundance.

However nowadays, my dog eats the grass outside (he didnt, last time I had the flea problem). So I dont know if I can spray the insecticide. It says not to use it on food plants, and to keep pets away, etc.

Are there any insecticides which definitely kill fleas, that CAN be used on food products?

If not, can I use the Baygon Outdoor spray, but a) try to avoid the soil/grass areas, and only spray it on the walkways/cement (which means the insecticide will still wash into the garden when it rains, or the garden is watered). and then the insecticide will be drawn up into the blades of grass, via it's water from the soil..

or B) Do I just spray the whole garden... and assume that if the dog eats a couple of blades of grass that was sprayed, it won't have much effect? (though of course I really have no idea).

I can't stop him from eating the grass, but I can't ignore the flea problem in the garden either. Every time doggie goes outside, he returns with 12-20 new fleas on him (I know, because I thoroughly search his hair and pick them off by hand.. it can take an hour each time!).

For INDOORS, I am going to try spraying with PeaBeu low-irritant insect spray (in a normal can) - it does not contain permethrin (other chemicals instead).

I am going to try the nematodes, but if they don't work, I might try diatomous earth (I don't want to use them both at the same time, because the D.E. might kill my expensive nematodes). Also, I don't know if the D.E. is really as safe as people say - it HAS been found to be carcinogenic to humans (causes lung cancer).

Can anyone offer any advice? I'm at my wit's end.. I've actually thought that (considering my dog is very old and "on his last legs"), I'm considering having him P.T.S. this summer - he really is SUFFERING from the fleas (he has severe flea bite dermatitis too). Help!

Edited December 25, 2008 by midnightmint

[Golden Rules]

Have you tried Neem Oil Spray? Good for the dog. And Neem Kennel Wash? You can spray that on everything outside - and it's quite safe for all animals. If I had your problem, I'd treat the dogs and inside as you are currently doing, and spray the whole outside area 2 or 3 times a week with Neem Oil Kennel Wash. It's not expensive to buy a bottle, and you dilute it into a wash to spray so is very economical.

It would be worth a go seeing as you have tried so much else.

www.neemaus.com.au

[midnightmint]

Have you tried Neem Oil Spray? Good for the dog. And Neem Kennel Wash? You can spray that on everything outside - and it's quite safe for all animals. If I had your problem, I'd treat the dogs and inside as you are currently doing, and spray the whole outside area 2 or 3 times a week with Neem Oil Kennel Wash. It's not expensive to buy a bottle, and you dilute it into a wash to spray so is very economical.

It would be worth a go seeing as you have tried so much else.

www.neemaus.com.au

I hadn't considered Neem.. thanks for that idea.. but I am a little bit concerned and confused about it's toxicity if licked (or if grass sprayed with Neem wash is consumed).. particularly in relation to cats (I have 2). The info re: Neem Oil and Neem Spray on the internet all seems to contradict..

[Golden Rules]

Have you tried Neem Oil Spray? Good for the dog. And Neem Kennel Wash? You can spray that on everything outside - and it's quite safe for all animals. If I had your problem, I'd treat the dogs and inside as you are currently doing, and spray the whole outside area 2 or 3 times a week with Neem Oil Kennel Wash. It's not expensive to buy a bottle, and you dilute it into a wash to spray so is very economical.

It would be worth a go seeing as you have tried so much else.

www.neemaus.com.au

I hadn't considered Neem.. thanks for that idea.. but I am a little bit concerned and confused about it's toxicity if licked (or if grass sprayed with Neem wash is consumed).. particularly in relation to cats (I have 2). The info re: Neem Oil and Neem Spray on the internet all seems to contradict..

The whole point of Neem Oil spray is it's non toxic - spray it on the cat or dog, it licks it off - doesn't matter, it purifies their blood. Speak to the people on the Neem website if you have any concerns. It may not be what you are looking for but it's a natural option as opposed to all the poisons.

[sandgrubber]

If you have no success with neem, you may want to try Pyrethrum . . . also plant derived and relatively non-toxic . . . tests have shown that you have to make dogs drink huge amounts before they show any damage. It commonly comes in combination with piperonyl butoxide -- which is non toxic but increases the effect of pyrethrum on insects. You should find these in a good garden store. Go for concentrates rather than premixed solution.

[New Age Outlaw]

Be careful with Pyrethrum - it is very toxic to cats I think.

[sandgrubber]

Be careful with Pyrethrum - it is very toxic to cats I think.

No. Fido's flea rinse -- said to be for cats and dogs and other animals -- is a Pyrethrum products and a quick Google search on Pyrethrum, cats turns up no warnings. I seem to remember one fo the flea treatments (Permoxin?) has a big warning "DO NOT USE ON CATS". But I'm pretty sure phrethrum is ok for all mammals.

Edited December 27, 2008 by sandgrubber

[midnightmint]

I think that Pyrethrum is the "natural" product derived from chrysanthemums. Pyrethroids, Pyrethrin and Permethrine are the man-made synthetic form, I think. I know at least 2 of these products are toxic to cats. I'm still unsure about Pyrethrum, I know it is at least RELATED to products that are toxic to cats.. so I will prob check with my vet first.

I rang my vet regarding the FleaBan house & carpet spray which contains permethrine, and my vets said that it IS toxic to cats (even though the Exelpet FleaBan packaging said it was okay to use in cats' bedding). They said it appeared to be a low dosage, so would probably be okay, but they recommended that cats be kept out of the area whilst spraying and not be allowed to walk over the floor until the spray had dried. I'd rather not use the product... my cats are 15yrs old and my dog is 16½... theyre all too old to be exposed to questionable substances.. I wouldnt expose them to any of these things now.. unfortunately I do have to pick the lesser evils, because the fleas are in such plague proportions right now..

There are also websites on the internet that warn of Neem Oil being toxic to cats.. I don't know if that applies just to the "oil" or if some pre-mixed "Neem Sprays" are alright..

Lots of products are claimed to be non-toxic, and people are led to believe that, because they are "natural".. but there are soooo many natural things that are toxic to animals (particularly cats) - essential oils, tea tree, garlic, etc etc..

Has anyone tried a homemade lemon spray/rinse on their cat? Does it actually work?

I surveyed my two cats yesterday.. the male cat whom had Advantage applied, appears to have NO fleas. The female cat, who had Frontline Plus (spot treatment) applied, is still completely infested (over 24 hours after application), and the fleas do not even seem slow or sick. Frontline Plus clearly doesn't work, at least, not in my area, or on my cat.. now I'm really annoyed because I guess I can't apply any other top-spot product to her for a month.

Edited December 28, 2008 by midnightmint