Pup Eating Everything

[alaskybarney]

My brother has a labrador pup thats now around 8 months old. She has a habit of eating anything and everything she can get hold of, from socks to tv remotes to garden mulch.

The vets are running tests to find out if its an imbalance of some sort but currently they have to have a metal muzzle on her at all times (she ate the material one they bought) to stop her from eating anything in the house. She has already been operated on once to remove an obstruction in her bowels and over the 2 weeks following this was down at the vets to have her stomach pumped on 4 occassions due to her eating random items. They can no longer take her for walks as she eats anything she can find on the street (hence why the muzzle has now been purchased).

Has anyone heard of anything similar as she is a sweet girl except for this one behaviour.

[Nekhbet]

where was she from and what were the living conditions like? It could be something stemming from puppyhood

Also what is she currently on food wise? What is her diet and how many times a day does she get fed

[Teebs]

My dog is bad, but wont eat things ALL the time, I cant leave him alone in the house, and it has never gotten to the stage where he needed a muzzle to stop him

good luck!

[poodlefan]

What IS she allowed to chew?

How much training and exercise outside the backyard does she get?

Labs are notorious chewers but perhaps some allowable outlets for the habit may help while other possibilities are explored.

Edited December 15, 2008 by poodlefan

[alaskybarney]

She is currently fed Eukanuba as her primary diet.

She used to have a range of toys to play with but these have now had to be replaced by Kongs as she manages to eat a part of any other toy they give her.

She is generally walked once a day in the morning and is inside with them when they are home. She is outside during the day as they work, which has now been restricted to being fenced onto the patio area so that she doesn't eat mulch, plants and anything else she can find. The information they were given by the breeder (who I would prefer not to name) states that if the pup gets to around the 8 month age and is uncontrollable then don't bother contacting them as obviously they haven't bothered training the dog properly, so they are not keen on contacting the breeder as they feel the breeder will say they have failed the dog.

I have spoken to them about training and she knows how to sit, drop, etc (and I have seen her do these) so they have given her basic training but not anything advanced.

Again any help is appreciated.

[poodlefan]

I'll try to say this without causing offence.

I think this dog is massively under stimulated. Muzzling and forced confinement in a mentally barren place every day would be exacerbating it. I would be suggesting:

* Go out and buy it a nice big bone to chew on. Preferably several. This is a gundog, they like to work their jaws. Kibble and kongs reallly ain't going to cut it.

* She needs to be supervised inside and discouraged from chewing and/or crated with something she can chew. A muzzle isn't teaching her anything. Close doors, restrict access, put bad tasting stuff on furniture and pick things up.

* The dog was bred to do a job. They need to get into a training club and discpline themselves to train it every day. Mental stimulation really helps.

* It needs to be given a chance to run offlead regularly. Games such as fetch would help. My guess is that those daily walks may not happen every day too.

* Where did they get the dog from? Some Labs are really far too much dog for your average family.. especially some from working lines. Customs or the police would probably kill to get their hands on a dog like this.. sounds like it could be a real worker.

I think a visit from an experienced professional dog trainer (not just the local Barkbusters) might really help them to understand what they're dealing with. Adolescent gundogs can often be a handful and some professional advice could help them survive this period of her life.

Edited December 16, 2008 by poodlefan

[megan_]

I'll try to say this without causing offence.

I think this dog is massively under stimulated. Muzzling and forced confinement in a mentally barren place every day would be exacerbating it. I would be suggesting:

* Go out and buy it a nice big bone to chew on. Preferably several. This is a gundog, they like to work their jaws. Kibble and kongs reallly ain't going to cut it.

* She needs to be supervised inside and discouraged from chewing and/or crated with something she can chew. A muzzle isn't teaching her anything. Close doors, restrict access, put bad tasting stuff on furniture and pick things up.

* The dog was bred to do a job. They need to get into a training club and discpline themselves to train it every day. Mental stimulation really helps.

* It needs to be given a chance to run offlead regularly. Games such as fetch would help. My guess is that those daily walks may not happen every day too.

* Where did they get the dog from? Some Labs are really far too much dog for your average family.. especially some from working lines. Customs or the police would probably kill to get their hands on a dog like this.. sounds like it could be a real worker.

I think a visit from an experienced professional dog trainer (not just the local Barkbusters) might really help them to understand what they're dealing with. Adolescent gundogs can often be a handful and some professional advice could help them survive this period of her life.

Agree 100% - this dog needs a job to do. More restrictions = more frustrations.

I think the family needs to decide if they are going to commit to give the dog the stimilation it needs (training, off leash running, playing with a ball, walks a few times a day) or whether they need to give her up to someone who can commit to this.

I always find it strange that labs are often recommended as family dogs for young families (who often don't have much time on their hands). They are excellent family dogs when older but require a lot of work when they're young.

To put it into perspective, I own a mini-schnauzer who is a similar age, he gets 2 walks a day (totalling 1.5 hours min, at least 1 hr of this is offleash with a group of other dogs, playing, fetching a ball), he has a treat ball that takes him hours to get to his food and he still wants to play fetch with me at night! And this is a dog that isn't helf as active as a lab...

EDIT: And remove everything, and I mean everything from her reach. No remote, socks, shoes, pillows etc.

Edited December 16, 2008 by megan_

[WreckitWhippet]

Find a dam or lake that allows dogs and take her swimming, if she fetches send her in to retrieve a toy and give her something constructive to do.

I just saw the post above mine and agree, the pup is bred to do a job, give her one to do.

[gsdog2]

I would agree with everyone and say this dog needs more stimulation EXCEPT I remember when working as a vet nurse a daschund came in with a similar problem. This dog was owned by an elderly spinster lady who adored it (as well as the other two she owned) and lavished it with attention. However, it had surgery on a regular basis to remove all sorts of objects found (and eaten) around the home. The item that stands out the most in my memory was the poor lady's underwear - you know, the ones that went up to her armpits - not once, but twice (different pairs of course!).

There is a condition similar to this in humans (where they are continually eating) and I wonder if this is the same.

Having said that, I have shepherds and a golden retriever and they've never been destructive. It may have something to do with the sandpit they get to dig in, the paddle pool they can play in, the large number of toys always available and regular obedience training.

Then again, I'm about to get a new pup next month so I'm not pointing the finger at anyone :rolleyes:

Edited December 16, 2008 by gsdog2

[Nekhbet]

I think this dog is massively under stimulated. Muzzling and forced confinement in a mentally barren place every day would be exacerbating it.

agreed. Look at what happens to prisoners in solitary confinement - the dog will go mad and become super destructive or end up hurting itself.

what about building a concrete run for daytime hours, decent size, and putting in a sand pit, bones, kong, Aussie Dog Toys make some pretty indestructible stuff as well. Then they need to join up a club and train at least once, twice a week and even start trick training to keep her stimulated during the week ... I invested in a treadmill for my Malinois so she can burn off the extra energy she has (working line) and it does work as the dog has to concentrate on keeping 4 legs moving together at the same time.

GSD2 that condition is called Pica :rolleyes:

[gsdog2]

GSD2 that condition is called Pica

That's the one (is that what they call the condition in humans). I was wondering if it could be medical Pica and not behavioural Pica?

[Nekhbet]

I would up the raw food as well as it can stem from vitamin and mineral deficiencies (not normally sought in blood tests) most commonly iron. I would be adding some huge meaty bones every day!

Pica comes from either a deficiency of some sort or a behavioral problem. Nothing wrong with buying something like a crib-stop spray for horses and slathering common items in that until the dog gets the hint.

sounds silly but leave the TV or radio on for the dog as well to give it a source of stimulation.

[persephone]

I would also suggest

reading up on pica

getting in a professional trainer/behaviouralist - to assess the dog/environment/owners, and suggest strategies.

providing more stimulation for the dog- not LESS, as is being done by confining/muzzling.

Have a look HERE

The sandpit idea sounds a good one too

IF it is all seeming too hard, by all means contact customs etc- she could be just what they are seeking!!

Shame about the breeder's attitude

[The Spotted Devil]

I think there has been some good advice given.

If it helps at all, I have a Dalmatian who was an extremely difficult puppy and teenager - full of energy, super intelligent and very, very determined to get his own way - I think if he had gone to an "average" household he would have been sent back to the breeder......several times However, I trained him every single day, played lots of controlled games (i.e. tug and release, retrieve in response to commands - not just endless fetching) and, whilst being careful of growing joints, provided sufficient exercise and stimulation with controlled walks and off leash runs on the beach (early in the mornings to avoid too many dogs). When I was home, he was with me. Always. This allowed me to closely supervise, praise, correct and distract as appropriate. When I was out he was confined to an open crate in the laundry. Fortunately I was home a lot as I was studying.

Zig has just turned 2 and is the most delightful dog I could imagine living with. Every weekday we either go to the park for some serious obedience training (I plan to start trialling him next year) before he is given a free run or we go to the beach for an hour where I practice recalls, stays and focus amongst all his madness. On the weekend we either go to a club for agility training or a show or he just has a lovely on lead walk. At night he is fed either 3-4 cups of dry food or a chicken frame - all of this must be earned via training. During the day he happily curls up in his bed whilst I study and at night he is desperate to go to his crate in the laundry to get some more sleep. Don't get me wrong - he's still nuts and has his moments but channelling all that madness and energy into something constructive has done wonders for him.

All the best!

[Nekhbet]

just to add ... my rottweiler was a wandering baby, picked up off the streets at about 8 weeks. When I got him a month later he had been kept with a FA rottweiler for a spell and hence gobbled ANYTHING he could find and quickly!

What this dog ate, not just chewed, ATE and swallowed ...

- garbage

- rocks

- plastic bags that had or still did contain food

- grass (he still mows like a cow)

- anything made of leather especially shoes

- clothing

- dry yucca fronds (yup I found a foot long poo a few weeks ago)

- a dozen eggs, the shells and the CARTON

- plastic toys (although now he just chews them and spits out the bits but all chewable cheap toys are banned here)

- fruit, vegetables and anything edible growing in the garden - although somehow grapefruits are not to his liking this year

- sheep poo, wallaby poo, roo poo, possum poo ...

so basically anything that Diesel decides is a good idea he will go for. Critical period problem because he has this part of his brain that drives him to scavenge like he will starve (tell you what no chance of a fussy eater which is nice) but for a while nothing was sacred and had to be hidden away from him or he would at least chew it to complete obliteration. So Diesel came with me pretty much everywhere. He was happy to go for car trips and sit at work watching people work, crunching on a pigs ear, meeting other dogs etc. I got him stuff that was OK and unchewable for him, my dogs get bones every day to crunch on and the radio left on. He is slowly weaning off the problem, you occasionally find the odd poo with some interesting additions but keeping him well fed and happy seems to be the key in supressing his desire to eat whatever is lying around.

[alaskybarney]

Thanks for all the replies. I will be forwarding them all onto my brother to try and help him.

I do know that most of the labs current treatment (Ie muzzle etc) has been recommended by the vets (and they have taken her to several) as her stomach was pumped so many times in such a short period that they needed to get it to stop to allow her body to recover.

Anyway hopefully they will take it on board and try some of the suggestions.

Thanks again!!

[poodlefan]

Thanks for all the replies. I will be forwarding them all onto my brother to try and help him.

I do know that most of the labs current treatment (Ie muzzle etc) has been recommended by the vets (and they have taken her to several) as her stomach was pumped so many times in such a short period that they needed to get it to stop to allow her body to recover.

Anyway hopefully they will take it on board and try some of the suggestions.

Thanks again!!

Vets are behaviorists/trainers anymore than GPs are psychologists AB.. I think a behavioural consult would really help.

Edited December 16, 2008 by poodlefan

[persephone]

I can understand muzzling the dog for a brief time... After Hamlet had surgery to remove sticks/leaves, he wore a muzzle during walks(free running) for months .. but not at other times .

However- it is just a 'bandaid', and theCAUSE of this compulsive eating of junk needs to be found and sorted

[alanglen]

Lots of great advice to increase stimulation has been given and lots of this will help this little girl but I have met two Labradors of about the same age with compulsive Pica and it can be devastating. The first labbie I met with it was amazing, she had 3 surgeries by 12 months of age, lost half her bowel and yet would still try and eat your watch and stethoscope whilst checking her post surgery. Absolutely compulsive. That being said, I personally would never feed these dogs bones as they will often gulp them and then foreign body again. The extra stimulation and handling helps, as does teaching the leave command for a treat. Consider doggy daycare to relieve some bordem as well. Will be thinking of you!

[gsdog2]

There is a condition similar to this in humans (where they are continually eating) and I wonder if this is the same.

:rolleyes: Finally remembered the name of the disorder. It's called "Prader-Willi syndrome" which is a persistent hunger, feelings of starvation, all while the person may eat 20,000 calories a day.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5...c_disorder.html

Nekhbet, this was the disorder I was thinking of when I said "medical" Pica