My Westie Is Dominating Me!

[CrazyWestie]

I have a lovely 25 week old female westie named Miley. My OH and I recently took her to the vet who tried to clip her nails however she just squirmed all over the place and wouldnt let him do it. She does the same when we try to clip her hair or brush her. The vet told me that Miley doesnt listen to us because she views herself as equal because we let her sleep in our bed (she shares my pillow!) and we spoil her too much.

I have now made her sleep on the floor in our room and wont let her sit on the couch and I am giving her more training and discipline and she is now listening to me.

The problem I now have is, she is very distant and not her usual bubbly crazy self and to add to that, she has been having a few toilet accidents in the house. She is even refusing to walk on the leash.

I am worried that Miley's personality has changed forever.

Do you think this is just a reaction to the discipline and she will get over it?

Your advice would be much appreciated.

[BrunoBella]

Second attempt at posting. My internet keeps cycling out....

The sulking is temporary . It is your dogs attempt to regain control of the pack. Miss Bella did this as well for a while. You just need to be consistent and patient.

Your changes look good . Have you looked at the Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF) leadership program? That contains all the tips for becoming a good pack leader.

You should be able to sort out the leash walking with a bit more training. It doesn't hurt for dogs to miss a few walks if they are really playing up!

The inside toileting I know nothing about as my dogs are big. Have to ask a little dog person.

Keep up the good work :D

[SkySoaringMagpie]

When you say "discipline" and "train" what are you doing aside from removing bed and couch privileges? What behaviours is she demonstrating apart from the grooming that make you think she's trying to be dominant?

Vets are usually not dog trainers. Getting a dog to submit politely to grooming has bugger all to do with where it sits and sleeps. Being a difficult groom is also usually not about dominance. There are some tricks and training methods that people in the grooming forum can help you with, I would try posting your question there.

[Dogsfevr]

All our dogs sleep on the bed/couch & we have no issues.

Respect is earnt by being consistent.

You own a dog & they respect leadership by being treated as a dog & knowing the boundries & the rules which everyone must follow

Spoiling creates monsters .

We love every one of our dogs & yes they are considered spoilt but they now exactly where they stand & what the rules are & if i say jump they ask how high.

It does sound like your westie is setting the rules & waiting for you to respond & generally its the "oh isnt that cute" or it doesnt want o so the dog wins the battle,soon the battles are won more by the dog & less by the humans.

Dont panic,your dog will be confused by the change in your appraoch(this is the confusin part of not being consistent before).As long as your being fair but firm your pup will understand what you want in now time & settle to the new rules.

The key is it isnt a baby or stuffed animal its a living creature which is a dog & to be a dog & feel comfy in that you must treat them as such.

When a dog is giving this respect they make super loyal pets not a confused wilderbeast that is not fun to be around & 14 plus years of a little monster soons becomes very unpleasant & a chore

Westies are turds to groom because often the owners allow them to get away with it so you need to look at how you brush,where you brush & what your using.

*Always brush on a raised area(washing machine,table etc etc & always place a non slip matt for dog to stand on)Never brush on your knee,ground.

*Look at your tools & ask yourself do they hurt the dog,some brushes are very hard & cause dogs to react to the unpleasant experience,brush your arm with your chosen tool & it shouldnt hurt.

*What technique do you use when you brush.For example do you make a big deal out of it or are you too the point,consistent,firm but fair.

* what voice tone do you use when the dog reacts??

*As a professional groomer i will say many of the dogs that are hard to groom have been because owners have attempted to do things themselves & the dog has not learnt right from wrong.Bad handling can create a lasting memory for a young dog

I would suggest asking your breeder for advice & see if they can show you what to do or refer you to someone who can help you with your current issues.A good grooming salon will also show you who to do the basics(brushing etc et) correctly.

As for the vet & nails to be honest i dont now many vets who can cut nails,many still use those horrid guillotine clippers & have no clue how to hold the dog & trim.Maybe your vet is a star .

[westiemum]

All our dogs sleep on the bed/couch & we have no issues.

Respect is earnt by being consistent.

You own a dog & they respect leadership by being treated as a dog & knowing the boundries & the rules which everyone must follow

Spoiling creates monsters .

We love every one of our dogs & yes they are considered spoilt but they now exactly where they stand & what the rules are & if i say jump they ask how high.

Well said settrlvr - that's exactly how it is in my house - and I have two older westies - my 9 year old pf rescue farm boy and my 7 year old ex breeding bitch girl. I got them at ages 6 and 5 respectively. And yes they sleep on my bed and the lounge!!! In fact I'm going to get a bigger bed to accommodate them next time! (And me!) :D and I love it and wouldn't have it any other way. And I have no problem with obedience and discipline at all.

Although I got them as older dogs the issues were still the same - he had to learn who was boss and she is an 'alpha-wanna-be' who absolutely had to quickly learn that I was the alpha bitch of this pack and not her. :D And as settrlvr said absolute consistency and respect , and I would add firm kindness to the boundaries were all key. Nothing without a polite sit first, disciplined walking on the lead, immediate recall - and with her a small group (8 dogs) beginners obedience class using nothing but positive reinforcement worked a treat.

I have not had one place (public or private) where my dogs have not been asked back. I also expect them to behave and 99 times out of hundred they do. They went to a new groomer today for the first time (goldiesrgr8 - thanks tons - great clip ) - who was amazed at how easy they were to groom. And considering their backgrounds they are very good. So yes I do understand some westies are difficult to clip and groom - but not all - and after all if they didn't have some westie spunk they wouldn't be westies.

So I suggest you persevere with respect consistency and kindness to set the boundaries clearly - and consider a small group obedience class - worked wonders for us!

Hope that helps

Cheers,

Westiemum

Edited December 10, 2008 by westiemum

[RoxyNHemi]

Everyones suggestions here are brilliant.

I started my Westie boy off at 8 weeks with brushing, and getting used to handling, I started in very short sessions, and gave him treats when he behaved, and then gradually made it longer. I had to completely strip his coat out at 12 weeks, which took me about 4 hours over 4-5 days to do.

He is a show dog, so MUST be groomed, plus he is a dog, and must do what I expect of him.

I hate doing nails, so his havent been done for some weeks ( I took him to his breeders to be done last time) I have a gillotine style, plus a file. I got them done (i cut first, then filed off the sharp bits), without much stess. I was firm with what i wanted, he bit me while I was filing, and I told him BAHH dont do that, put him back in my lap, and continued and he behaved for the rest of the time.

Come join us in the westie forum in breed sub forums... We would love a picture or two

[westielover]

I posted this in the westie thread also ...

With regard to preparing your girl for a grooming session - I would start by handling her feet, tail, ears and mouth outside of a grooming session and rewarding her with treats everytime she lets you handle those parts without biting or pulling away. Start off with her feet and playing a game of 'catch her foot' - make sure she is aware of the treat as you are doing this and when you have her foot in your hand reward immediately. That way she starts to associate 'good things happen when my feet are touched'. By the time she lets you handle her feet she should understand the concept and allow you to gradually handle her tail & ears and then you should be able to look at her teeth by pulling apart her lips. Don't forget - reward, reward, reward for good behaviour. Just do it as a play session every day for a few minutes.

Once you can handle the different body parts - start placing her on the 'nominated' grooming table. Drop a small handful of treats on the grooming table, then place her on the table, let her devour the treats and then take her off the table. Once again do, this 2-3 times a day over a couple of weeks until she gets used being placed on the grooming table. Grooming should then become a breeze.

I did all of the above with my boys and to this day I still drop a handful of treats onto the grooming table prior to starting a grooming session - they are now 8 & 7 years old - they are so easy to groom that when i cut their toe nails, I can also file away the sharp edges with a nail file (so they don't bleed when they scratch themselves). Most of the time I groom them but twice a year they get groomed by a groomer and he always comments on how easy they are to groom.

Remember that she is a puppy and she has lots and lots to learn - so you want to make EVERYTHING a positive experience. Puppies don't forget - once they experience something bad or scary they never forget and then you have to deal it for their whole life (or do a hell of a lot of desensitisation training)!

Key to success is boundaries, consistancy & keep it all as positive as posible. Milley is a living creature who deserves respect & kindness - she's young and learning the ways of the world and your job is to do it nicely as possible.

It sounds like perhaps something in your new method has scared her and she is starting to retreat. You don;t want her to retreat and become scared of you. A puppy/dog is a joy to have in your life and it's really not that hard to train them as long as you are kind & consistent so that she doesn't get confused.

What type of things are you doing to 'discipline' Milley? Learn how to be a benevolent leader and not a leader who rules by force of any kind.

Be careful of what your vet tells you when it becomes to behaviour - they are not experts on behaviour but they are experts on veterinary medicine.

Get yourself some dog training books such as:

The power of positive dog training by Pat Miller

Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor

There are heaps more but they are 2 good ones.

[persephone]

Be careful of what your vet tells you when it becomes to behaviour - they are not experts on behaviour but they are experts on veterinary medicine.

]

(my bold)

yep!

[kahell]

I have a lovely 25 week old female westie named Miley. My OH and I recently took her to the vet who tried to clip her nails however she just squirmed all over the place and wouldnt let him do it. She does the same when we try to clip her hair or brush her. The vet told me that Miley doesnt listen to us because she views herself as equal because we let her sleep in our bed (she shares my pillow!) and we spoil her too much.

I have now made her sleep on the floor in our room and wont let her sit on the couch and I am giving her more training and discipline and she is now listening to me.

The problem I now have is, she is very distant and not her usual bubbly crazy self and to add to that, she has been having a few toilet accidents in the house. She is even refusing to walk on the leash.

I am worried that Miley's personality has changed forever.

Do you think this is just a reaction to the discipline and she will get over it?

Your advice would be much appreciated.

Is that my naughty niece your talking about? Just stick with it Lisa. I'm sure Miley will get used to the new rules. I'm sure she will still be crazy once her cousin comes into the picture!

Katy

[CrazyWestie]

You guys are great. Thanks so much for the advice.

The 'discipline' I was talking about just involved making her wait for her food, going though the simple commands again every night and generally perserving on commands and not letting her get away with stuff. We didnt let her on the bed or couch for 2 days. I couldnt handle it any more after that, I missed the morning cuddles too much.

We started trying to groom her more this week and we rewarded her when she was good.

Today we bought some clippers and managed to actually give her a clip ourselves! We just kept giving her treats and she didnt even notice what we were doing. Hopefully she will be right for the groomer and the vet next time!

The accidents have slowed down, I think it may just have been a reaction to our new attitude.

Miley went to my mother in law's the other day and they couldnt believe how much she had changed. She listened to them and only stole a shoe once!

Thanks heaps!