Heart Murmur In 6 Week Old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

[Meeka17]

Hi Everyone,

I have put a deposit down to purchase a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel from a registered breeder. I put a lot of research into selecting a breeder as I wanted a reputable breeder that is concerned with genetic problems i.e. Mitral Valve Disease. The breeder I am purchasing my Blenheim female from has 2 female Cavalier's which are sisters and she did a thorough history check of these Cavalier's and they come from champion bloodlines and appear to have no bad cases of MVD through the mother's side. The father also was properly selected and appeared to be clear to the owner of any genetic problems as there was also a history check done on the father. My breeder has never had any problems with any puppies in all previous litters she has bred and there has been no problems with other litters the father has bred. My puppy went for her 6 week health check yesterday and a Level 1 heart murmur was found in my puppy. Myself and the breeder are absolutely devastated! The vet seemed quite positive that this is an innocent murmur and she should grow out of it by 12 weeks of age. The breeder has a second litter to the same father and is getting them vet checked on Tuesday and is also taking my puppy back for a second opinion. If any of the puppies from the other litter have a murmur she wants to get her dam's desexed as she doesn't want to breed problematic puppies. Does anybody have any advice on puppy murmur's? What are the chances of this being a puppy murmur or the early onset of MVD? I'm finding it really difficult to make a decision whether the still purchase this puppy as I don't want to get her and then she dies at 2 years old but then I really have my heart set on her as I have become attached to her because I have been getting weekly photo updates from the breeder from 2 weeks of age! HELP! Any advice would be greatly appreciated! She is absolutely adorable! Attached is a photo at 6 weeks old.

Regards,

Tameka

[BittyMooPeeb]

Hi Meeka,

sorry to hear about your pup. I'm sure other will come on tomorrow with more knowledge - you could also ask in the Cavalier thread (http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=96578) Just dont start reading it, it goes for over 1700 pages

I have heard of puppies having murmurs very young that grow out of them. What age are you due to get her? If the murmur should have gone by 12 weeks, you could delay getting her until she is 12 weeks old, or take her at 8 weeks (if that is what was planned) with an agreement from the breeder for a refund if the murmer hasnt disappeared by a particular age.

I dont know the answer to your specific question though sorry

ETA. Meant to say that she looks *gorgeous*

ETA2: A grade 1 murmur is quite low. Diagnosis of these things by listening to the heart is a bit subjective, and (in rescue) we had had one vet say they can hear a murmur but other vets couldnt hear one. So stay positive. It sounds like you have done all your homework and the chances are that it will all turn out well.

Edited December 6, 2008 by BittyMooPeeb

[Meeka17]

Thanks for your reply BittyMooPeep. I am due to collect her at 8 weeks old. The breeder has told me if I still want to get her at 8 weeks old I can get her at a reduced price otherwise she is happy to hold onto her until her 12 week check up to see if the murmur has cleared up or not and then it will be my call. If she is clear at 12 weeks I'm assuming I would need to pay full price for her. I don't know whether to gamble and take her at 8 weeks or not because if I left it until 12 weeks and she still had the murmur I would find it incredibly hard not to adopt her as I have really become attached to her as I've been getting weekly photos. I've shown all my friends and it's in my mind that this is my puppy. I've picked a name and bought her toys, bed, collar etc. She will definately be a spoilt little princess. I've done a lot of reading about MVD and it does say that the dog will become lethargic and restless and the breeder insures me that my puppy is the pick of the litter (appearance and temperment wise) and that is very energetic and is the ring leader of the litter. The odds do seem in favour that this is an innocent murmur but I would like to put this topic out there and get other people's opinions.

[Scarlet]

Is it possible for the dog to be seen by a cardiologist who may offer additional advice?

Otherwise I really don't know what to suggeest.

Has the breeder offered you another pup from the litter or are they all sold?

I would probably take the pup at 8 weeks but that would be purely an emotional decision.

[fiona mills]

Hi Meeka17, I wouldn't panic too much just yet it is early days. I have a blenheim bitch here who was diagnosed with a severe mumur when she was young, She will be 15years in April and although she is now stone deaf and her eyesight isn't great she has had a healthy, problem free life. Good luck with your puppy.

[Gretel]

At six weeks old it is most likely an innocent murmur. If it were me I wouldn't take the pup until it had been checked over okay. I really don't think your breeder need go into panic mode just yet. Tell them to talk to some knowledgeable Cavalier breeders.

[Meeka17]

Is it possible for the dog to be seen by a cardiologist who may offer additional advice?

Otherwise I really don't know what to suggeest.

Has the breeder offered you another pup from the litter or are they all sold?

I would probably take the pup at 8 weeks but that would be purely an emotional decision.

Hi Scarlet,

Thanks for your response. It would cost me a fortune to see a cardiologist as the closest cardiologist is over 800km away so I would need to try and find a way to transport myself and the puppy. The breeder has offered to give the puppy to me at a reduced price. I can't have a replacement puppy as they have all been sold and out of my litter mine was the only Blenheim bitch. (I want a Blenheim bitch.) I would prefer to take her at 8 weeks because if I leave her until 12 weeks that is 4 weeks of puppy I have missed out on! I just hope it isn't any major heart disease problem as it would break my heart to see her die at such a young age! It's hard not to take her because she is such a gorgeous puppy.

Thanks,

Tameka

[Meeka17]

Hi Meeka17, I wouldn't panic too much just yet it is early days. I have a blenheim bitch here who was diagnosed with a severe mumur when she was young, She will be 15years in April and although she is now stone deaf and her eyesight isn't great she has had a healthy, problem free life. Good luck with your puppy.

Hi Fiona,

Thanks for your reply. That is reassuring to hear that a Cavvy has lived for that long! That is quite an achievement! Did your Cavvy have to go on heart medication at all? If she did do you mind if I ask how expensive this was?

Regards,

Tameka

[Meeka17]

At six weeks old it is most likely an innocent murmur. If it were me I wouldn't take the pup until it had been checked over okay. I really don't think your breeder need go into panic mode just yet. Tell them to talk to some knowledgeable Cavalier breeders.

Hi Gretel,

Thanks for your reply. I am hoping it is an innocent murmur. She is going for another vet check this Tuesday and it will be with a different vet so I think a second opinion is a good idea. The breeder I am getting her from sounds more confident since she has found out that the murmur is only a Level 1 and she says my puppy is one of the most energetic pups out of the litter which is a good sign. (I have read that if a dog does have MVD they can get lethargic and restless.)

Regards,

Tameka

[fiona mills]

My old girl went in to have a cyst removed and to be desexed when she was about 5yrs, they removed the cyst but didn't get to the desexing, they had to wake her because she wasn't handling the anaethetic, they told me then they could probably never anaethetise her again because it was too risky. She has never had any heart medication and has been a happy healthy girl, she is going quite senile now, and her face is nearly white, but still loves dinner time and still wags her tail.

[Jazzy88]

If its any reassurance... my dog had a slight heart murmur all of her life and she lived to the ripe old age of 15. It didn't slow her down at all.

[Diana]

I wouldn't be to worried with a murmur. It is the heart growing a bit uneven, that was what I was told by a cardio specialist 15 years ago. My daughter has it and we were told it will get better with age, she is 17! Today she can get a slight murmur when she has a cold or the flu but otherwise nothing wrong with her. I am just comparing humans with dogs here but I suppose it is a bit similar???

[fifi]

A grade one murmour may in all possibilty resolve by 12 weeks. And if it doesn't worsen and the pup is in otherwise healthy condition, it's unlikely to affect her life, but something you would need to keep in mind if she is taken to a vet for anaesthesia.

Get the breeder's vet to do a written report / letter for you before you pick her up, maybe the breeder could keep her for longer to ensure you pick up a healthy pup.

How devastating for the breeder and disappointing for you.

fifi

[Meeka17]

A grade one murmour may in all possibilty resolve by 12 weeks. And if it doesn't worsen and the pup is in otherwise healthy condition, it's unlikely to affect her life, but something you would need to keep in mind if she is taken to a vet for anaesthesia.

Get the breeder's vet to do a written report / letter for you before you pick her up, maybe the breeder could keep her for longer to ensure you pick up a healthy pup.

How devastating for the breeder and disappointing for you.

fifi

Hi Fifi,

Yes it has been devastating for both of us. The breeder has 2 female Cavvy's that are sister's and they had litters 5 days apart. She is taking her other litter (and my puppy) for their health check on Tuesday. She said if any of those puppies have a murmur she will know that it is her girls that are the problem and will get them desexed. It's really disappointing for me because I did soo much research into these dogs before deciding where to get one from and then only my puppy has a problem. All of the other puppies in the litter are fine! The breeder is upset to because she said my Blenheim girl is the pick of the litter; her coat is devine and she is a gorgeous looking dog. She said she is the first puppy to come racing out to her of the morning and certainly isn't shy. She is full of energy and very friendly and playful.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Tameka

[Clyde]

I would still take the pup.

Even though things didn't go to plan it still sounds as though you have chosen your breeder well. She sounds very ethical and supportive

[Pixie's mum]

We have a 4.5 month old pup with a heart murmur - he has been to see the specialist (at 8 weeks) and diagnosed with mild PDA (which is what vets term an innocent puppy murmur). According to the specialist they do not heal themselves however they can improve or worsen as they grow. They often need surgery before the pup is 12 months of age at a cost of $4000 which is not covered by insurance for our pup as it was found within the waiting period. We are going back to see the specialist in January to find out what needs to happen. We're happy as this can be fixed.

Before this we lost an eight month old pup with sub aortic stenosis which is unfortunately inoperable. We couldn't believe we were unlucky enough to get two pups with heart murmurs however they seem to be more common than I thought. As the specialist told us; PDA is the murmur you want in your pup because something can be done about it. It was heartbreaking losing our last pup and I wouldn't wish it on anyone; although at the same time we were glad he came and lived happily with us for the short time that we had him.

This murmur was picked up in our pup 2 days after we got him (and 7 days after we got our last pup) and we could have returned either of them to the breeder for our money back - which we didn't do because we became so attached. Be aware though that it becomes extremely expensive. January will be our fourth visit to the specialist (in 12months - with 2 pups) at an average cost of $400 and we will need to pay for the operation if he needs it.

Good luck with your pup - I hope everything is okay with him.

[Leema]

My dog has had a murmur, diagnosed at ~12weeks. The vet recently called it a grade "4 to 3.5" murmur, but Mac has not been affected by the murmur, as far as we can tell.

I am unsure if murmurs can get 'worse' as time goes by... I would not be worried with this pet puppy having a grade 1 murmur if it stayed at this level.

[Meeka17]

Hi Everyone,

Just thought I thank the people that have given me advice about the heart murmur detected in my puppy. She went for another check at the vets yesterday and was examined by 2 different vets and both of the vets could barely hear her murmur. It is barely even a Level 1 murmur. The vets tell me it is very unlikey that the murmur is related to Mitral Valve Disease as this condition is usually diagnosed when the dog is nearly an adult. The murmur is not continuous either which is a good sign that the murmur is not Patent Ductus Arteriosis as the murmur should be continuous if the puppy has this condition. The vet told me if she was in my shoes she would still go ahead with the purchase so that is what I am doing. I feel very reassured considering the vets are so positive. There are no guarantees that she will develop Mitral Valve Disease later on in life but that is the risk that needs to be taken when purchasing a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel as that condition is prevalent in the breed. The vet also did say that it is common for 10% of puppies to have innocent murmurs that clear up. Hopefully everything works out okay and I'm very excited to be picking up my Blenheim girl this Sunday.

Thanks,

Tameka

[julesluvscavs]

That's great to hear Tameka, sounds a lot more reassuring now !

All the best with your new puppy ! :D

I said a hi to you in your intro post

Edited December 10, 2008 by JulesLuvsCavs

[Meeka17]

That's great to hear Tameka, sounds a lot more reassuring now !

All the best with your new puppy ! :D

I said a hi to you in your intro post

Hi Jules,

Thanks for that! I can't remember seeing your hi in the intro post? Was that in the CKCS forum? I'm still learning how to use this forum so I apologise for not replying to your welcome! The CKCS forum moves soo quickly it is hard to keep up!

Thanks,

Tameka