What Do I Want

[rugerfly]

I havnt been able to sleep for three nights trying to decide to wipe the versitile 18-200m 3.5 VR DX (970.00) and get a AF 80-200mm f2.8D ED non VR (1,343)

and a smaller zoomy for portraits??????????????? I want the AF 70-200 2.8 VR too

I want to be able to take fast movement shots that are mega sharp. I realise I'd need another lens to do the closer stuff but they can be a tad cheaper and thinking I should spend the money up front instead of the general range 18-200 which is 970 bucks. Dont really need VR do I?????

:rolleyes: Im tearing my hair out reading about it all, but there is no real dog photography sites out there, just sit still point shoot stuff

Any other suggestions?

[Kirislin]

I wish I could help you but I am way out of my depth even understanding what you're talking about. Is there a Nikon users forum like Canon has? I reckon somewhere like that would be the place to ask

good luck

Just re reading, I think you should hang on to the lens you already know and love. How often do you hear about someone selling their old beloved lens and then regretting it. can you borrow the other one to try it out?

Edited December 4, 2008 by Kirislin

[chezzyr]

Good equipment will help but alot of it comes down to practice/technique.

I don't know how much experience you have with that equipment or with

the subject matter

I see people running out and spending big dollars on stuff and still

struggling.

[rocco]

Argh the choices Rugers. :rolleyes:

What I'm doing is buying good versatile lenses and then I wont have to have any more for awhile as they will suit for all occasions. I have the Nikkor 24-70 f2.8 ED ($2300-500) and it is such a beautiful lens. I can action my macro with my portraits. It has done me well and I LOVE it.

24-70 f2.8 read

Then I hope to purchase the Nikkor 70-200 f2.8 VR soon for any action long distance stuff.

If I was you I would get the 70-200 VR first if it's what you want.

[rugerfly]

Good equipment will help but alot of it comes down to practice/technique.

I don't know how much experience you have with that equipment or with

the subject matter

I see people running out and spending big dollars on stuff and still

struggling.

Hi Chez. The subject matter Im used to is Classified :rolleyes: um, yea its people stuff Now that was D3 stuff and gear as good to match it (long zoomies) , but it twernt mine I'd like to get my own stuff and I dont have anything yet.

I totally agree with you about big dollars. Im happy to start with the D300 and get the all rounder lens. Your totally right I just need to be told.

Now dogs, I have only been doing for around a year, Im doing gundogs mainly but gaiting, not just standing there. The other thing I was enjoying till I got stuck at home with Ruger was Agility stuff and action shots of my own pair and anyone elses pair

Rocco, Im savin my head off for the 70-200mm by that time, i'll be hopefully good enough for it.

[chezzyr]

Sorry, I wasn't having a go at you specifically RF. Its just that so many people

want to rush out and buy u-beaut SLR camera and u-beaut lenses and expect

miracles straight out of the box

[rugerfly]

Hey no offence taken at all!!

Your right about the top end stuff though. Not necessary unless you just have money to throw away.

I wouldnt be hesitating admittedly though but Rugers bill is topping $4000 now Imagine the gear chez :rolleyes:

[Kirislin]

Sorry, I wasn't having a go at you specifically RF. Its just that so many people

want to rush out and buy u-beaut SLR camera and u-beaut lenses and expect

miracles straight out of the box

Oooh I hope you dont mean me. :rolleyes: I am practicing and learning. Honest!!

[chezzyr]

I have no doubt you are getting in the practice Kirislin although I have been preoccupied

so havent been keeping up with the forums. I loved your King Parrot shots - and to have

them visiting your place must be awesome (well I can brag I have had Gang Gangs lol)

RF - what equipment do you own at the moment? Have you thought about getting a

second hand body but then putting the money into lenses? Sorry to hear about the Vet bills

[rugerfly]

I dont own any of the stuff I have. I use a D3 with a AF 80-400mm 4.5 VR and a AF 50mm 1.8 and a nothing to something push pull

Nikon on Broadway have the D300 at a great price, so I think i'll just start with the one lens which was packaged with it. After having such a distance lens as above I was wondering if I needed the length for Agility?

[chezzyr]

The 16-85 or the 18-200? I know nothing about the quality of those lenses

but the 18-200 would be more versatile/better for agility I imagine?

[rugerfly]

Im hoping the 18-200 3.5 will be fast enough for agility. I'll certianly have a bash.

[Luke W]

No, you don't need VR for fast moving shots. with a 200mm focal length and fast moving dogs, you'll want to be shooting at 1/500 minimum, preferably faster. VR won't help in this situation.

Note: I reiterate chezzyr's comment about technique. Also, don't expect a high hit-rate, fire off a lot of shots. Finally, (while I'm not a Nikon user), the mega hi end cameras often have better autofocus systems.

f/3.5 would mostly be fast enough (except late in the afternoon, or particularly dark days)...

The biggest issue is - what's the lens like wide open?

With the expensive Canon lenses, the are still very sharp even wide open at f/2.8 - cheaper lenses may not be very sharp at all wide open.

Finally...judging an image at 100% magnification on the screen is a poor way to judge sharpness. What do the prints look like? What does a resized JPG look like?

[ruthless]

No, you don't need VR for fast moving shots. with a 200mm focal length and fast moving dogs, you'll want to be shooting at 1/500 minimum, preferably faster. VR won't help in this situation.

I take it VR is the same as IS? What situations would you be shooting to require it?

[rugerfly]

most of the stuff i want to shoot is moving rufe, I really dont understand how it gives you more Fstops with VR yes thats like your image stabilisation..

Thanks Luke.

[ruthless]

Sorry, RF, my question was aimed at Luke. I'm like you, I want to shoot moving subjects. It never occurred to me that I might not need a lens with IS! That's why I'm wondering what situations require it

[Luke W]

I'll have a go at explaining IS and the Nikon equivalent, VR...

When you are holding the camera, your hands make tiny movements. No-one can hold a camera perfectly steady. That's camera shake.

When we make these movements (small as they might be), it moves the lens relative to the scene. That causes the picture to be slightly blurred. Think of it as motion blur but rather than the subject moving, it's the lens.

How much blur depends on two factors

1. How far the lens moves while the shutter is open.

If the shutter is open for a long time, it become harder to hold steady and it moves further due to camera shake. For example, set the shutter speed to 5 seconds and see how blurry the shot turns out. That because during that 5 seconds, the lens moved a lot.

With me so far?

OK, the faster the shutter speed, the easier it is to hold it steady and the less the lens moves while the shutter is open.

If you set the shutter speed to 1/10,000s, then the lens will move hardly at all during the time. You won't notice any motion blur at all.

2. The focal length.

The bigger the zoom, the more the movement of the lens is magnified.

You can see this for yourself, take your widest lens and look through the viewfinder. The image doens't seem to jump around much does it?

Now take your longest lens and do the same thing. Notice how much the image jumps around.

Camera shake gets progressively worse the longer the lens.

OK.

So when we combine these 2 factors (shutter speed and focal length) we get a certain amount of camera shake.

OOPS - the third factor is how steady you are, but lets assume you are the average kinda steady person.

OK.

It just so happens, that the average person can hold the camera steady enough that if they use a 50mm lens and a shutter speed of 1/60s - they won't notice much camera shake in the final image.

If they use a 200mm lens, then because the longer focal length magnifies the shake, they need to increase the shutter speed to around 1/200 so they don't notice the shake.

If they were using a 500mm lens, they'd need a 1/500 shutter speed. Notic ethe rough pattern?

Note: This is the average, steady handed person with good technique. I'm not so steady, I'm a bit clumsy and I drink to much coffee. For a 50mm lens, I need to shoot at 1/125 to get no camera shake unless I'm really concentrating. Each person needs to know how steady they are.

So far so good?

OK, where does IS come in?

IS helps keep the lens steadier for longer.

Say you could normally use a 200mm lens at 1/250 and not notice any camera shake. IS will hold the lens steadier so you can use a shutter speeds 2-3 stops slower and the lens will move the same distance while your hands are shaking. That means, while you could normally shoot at 1/250, you can now shoot at 1/60 or even 1/30 at not notice camera shake. That's the extra stops you get.

But. And it's a big but.

This only helps movement at the camera end. IS (or VR) can't stop the dog from moving! So if you need a high shutter speed to minimise movement of the dog in the scene, IS isn't going to help.

If you can hold the camera steady enough for 1/250 using a 200mm lens and you have to shoot at 1/500s to keep the dog from being motion blurred, IS isn't going to help.

hm....

Make sense?

So - when do you need IS?

When you need to shoot at a slower shutter speed than you can normally hold steady. Low light, non-moving subjects.

[ruthless]

Perfect sense, thanks

[rugerfly]

wow luke thats intricate of you. Im with you on all of that but whats with the speak of adding F stops with VR???????? is that just the fact that you can do hand held extra good like on low light :rolleyes:

So if im looking for a lens that is fast focusing, I dont need to go for something with VR/IS if Im doing it for action.

Im pretty steady for hand held still stuff too luckily. Havnt got the DT's yet

PS holding the D3 body with heavy 80-400 for a day with no Tripod gives you good biceps!

[Luke W]

wow luke thats intricate of you. Im with you on all of that but whats with the speak of adding F stops with VR???????? is that just the fact that you can do hand held extra good like on low light

So if im looking for a lens that is fast focusing, I dont need to go for something with VR/IS if Im doing it for action.

Im pretty steady for hand held still stuff too luckily. Havnt got the DT's yet

PS holding the D3 body with heavy 80-400 for a day with no Tripod gives you good biceps!

Yep - exactly!

Extra ruly good !

VR = OFF, Shutter speed = 1/60, Shot = Rooly Blurry

Same conditions

VR = ON, Shutter Speed = 1/15, Shot = Rooly Sharp

Yes, for action you don't need IS/VR.

I turn mine off if I'm shooting fast action.