Itchy N Scratchy!

[Guest RosieFT]

Ok, so on 19th nov. I found a flea on Rosie, actually on the outer edge of her coat on her hock of all places!

So immediatly went off to vet to buy flea control program and chose Advantage. She is already on sentinal monthly which should stop the breeding cycle - however we have a cat so she could be the carrier. Both dog and cat were advantaged, although I have never, ever seen or had any reason to suspect fleas on Mishka (cat) in the 2yrs we have had her.

Bedding was all washed in a hot cycle etc etc.

Rosie continued to scritch and bite and gnaw at her feet, body etc.

Several times a day I have been doing in depth searches of her coat trying to find any sign of fleas or flea dirt to no avail.

Two weeks after the first dose of advantage I re-applied it. Her coat is actually very thick and I had washed her 48hours previously and was concerned it had not been effective.

Nope still very scratchy and still no sign of any fleas or flea dirt.

If I had not seen that first flea, I would swear there were no fleas.

What is the next step? Capstar to see if there is immediate relief?!?

I understand you can often not see fleas, but i am seriously searching regularly and thoroughly and would assume you would at least find the dirt?!?!

If she has allergies like my parents' bichon I am going to run screaming for the hills!!!!!!!!!

Would Sentinal, plus an Advantage program not be enough to stop the fleas???? If it is fleas.

thanks.

[puggy_puggy]

Could be not fleas at all.

Maybe try her on some antihistamines for a week and see if this improves things.

Dry food and grains can also cause skin irritations in dogs.

[persephone]

Tis the season... for pollen, and grass...

could also be food colouring, grains, or any one of a million things! Does she have any sort of different smell?... have you been washing her more frequently?

I am going to run screaming for the hills!

here.. here's your backpack

Edited December 3, 2008 by persephone

[tanya]

I have the same problem with my 2 staffords. They have alergies towards the grass of all things..

Anyway the most cost effective way that i found was to wash them once a week in Epi-Soothe S. its a oatmea shampoo with spherulites and chitosanide. It stopped them scratching immediately and no more trips to the vet...

Hope this helps

[Tilly]

Also could be the fleas have jumped on, bitten and then left/died ... this can cause itching.

[Guest RosieFT]

Thanks again everyone :-)

I have written it all down, including the "vetalogica omegaderm" from the other thread - which seems essentially to be a vitamin supplement for dogs! Why it is stocked in a human chemist I have not yet figured out.....

Tanya - Where do you get the episoothe shampoo from? I will look at cityfarmers etc.

Puggy - Antihistamines - what dosage? I assume you mean human ones?

Tilly - that was one of my thoughts too...

Persephone - very funny She is not a really 'smelly' dog.

The strange thing is, she occasionally has a bright pink tummy, the first time I noticed the pink tummy (when i think about it) was soon after i washed her in wool wash (which is what my family had always washed their dogs with, i know, not a sheep...) and I thought yikes!

So then , maybe 10days later when she started scratching etc.(before i found the flea), I went out and bought a hypoallergenic special dog shampoo because I assumed something was aggravating her skin, and decided wool wash was perhaps not that good (ok, ok) , and washed her with that. Then I found a flea....

But I have noticed her having a pink tummy unrelated to washing. It is not that often, perhaps noticed it 4 times since we have had her, and that is all within the past few weeks.

Also, after she eats she will often come inside and rub her mouth on the carpet, bed etc. Not manically, but as if to be wiping her lips. She will only do it for about 10 seconds and that is it. She has chicken wings/necks and royal canin kibble for dinner. Although tonight I gave her fish, tinned mackeral.

Obviously I won't try all suggestions at once :-) .

thanks again.

[Guest RosieFT]

ps.

i found this informative site, http://www.2ndchance.info/allergicskin.htm

here is a snippet..

There are two types of allergies that cause dogs and cats to itch. Because susceptibility to allergies is inherited, it is quite common for pets to have both types.

Canine Inhalant Atopy

This is the type of allergy for which we used pollen as an example. It is the most common form of allergy in dogs and cats, making up over ninety percent of the cases I see. About nine percent of the canine population has this disease. Certain breeds are more susceptible to than others. Among the most susceptible are Shar-peis, Fox Terriers, Golden Retrievers, West Highland White Terriers, Scottish Terriers, Shih Tzus, Dalmatians, Lhasa Apsos, Boston Terriers and Labrador Retrievers. "

Persephone, where is that backpack?!?!?!

[Got Spots]

Hi

I can sympathise, I have a 14 mo whippet girl whose chest got all weepy and red raw, I think it was the grass she is allergic to. Because I am a doctor I didn't want to drug her or use prednisolone creams, which are suprisingly absorbed from the skin and cause heaps of probs.

I was recommended Evening Primrose Shampoo from another wonderful DOL'er. I have the vet grade at the moment and she is itch free after just 2 washes, plus it smells wonderful. Also if you have eczema or other nasty skin conditions it really really helps.

You can get it from:

Groomers products "EPO" shampoo - in Melb (www.groomersproducts.com.au) - These people who own the store are wonderful and freely give info out over the phone to help

Also recommend the EPO supplement to diet

or

https://www.classicshowsupplies.com.au - Brisbane (haven't tried them yet)

This stuff you have to wash the dog roughly every 4 days and are ment to blow dry them - but I cheat slightly and just do her chest

Hope this helps cause it has really helped our poor Lucy

[Got Spots]

Also forgot - Lucy seems to be allergic to Advantix - causes intense itching on the site I put it.

So Sentinel + Capstar - and if feeling paranoid about ticks then half a frontline plus with her sister every 2 weeks

[Guest RosieFT]

Thankyou Neats for taking the time to type out all that information. :-)

I will write down your suggestions, but for now have just washed her (this afternoon) with the Epi-soothe S- shampoo so will see how that goes as a first step :-)

Your primrose smelling nice is good, this one is a bit whiffy, but it has got better :-) . At least she was a good girl to stand all lathered up for 10mins (as per recommendations), was unsure how that would go. She just started to shiver towards the end, would be tricky to do in Winter.

I have seen the problems prednisolone creams and steroid injections have caused on another dog, so would want to try avoid that too. For now, she is just itching/scratching/nibbling but apart from the rare pink tummy, has not progressed into anything more sinister (fingers crossed it won't!). It has only just started the past 3 weeks or so.

Thankyou again and I am pleased you have found something that helps your dog, it is horrible to see them so uncomfortable.

[persephone]

It does sound like allergies..

and can be from a thousand and one things

Do you have a holistic/alternative vet anywhere close?

Years ago with my Mitchell.. he had allergies to grass and food colourings.. and often would get some relief from I/M injections of vitamin C.. I know, I know.....

BUT it seemed to work.

He was on prednil tablets for about 10 years....

[Got Spots]

Mine are a bit spoilt

Washed in the bath with warm water - same temp as a baby. Lucy loves it esp the towel off and the treaty later. She hangs out for the treat

[puggy_puggy]

How much does she weigh? Either 1/2 to 1 Claratyne (human stuff) tablet a day.

Does she eat out of a plastic bowl? Funny that she rubs her face after eating. If it's not the bowl then it's very likely to be the grains in the royal canine kibble.

As well as the antihistamine I would get her off all grains and feed a totally RAW/BARF diet.

[Guest RosieFT]

persephone - i have not looked into hollistic vets or anything at this point. Still hoping I will find something to ease the itching as it is not *yet* causing her harm and to be honest, we had noticed a significant reduction in scritching for the 2 days after I washed her with episoothe. However, this morning she seems to be just as itchy. It says on teh bottle to do it once a week.

Neats - i was her in warm water too :-) But standing around for 10mins she started to shiver a bit. She tends to feel the cold really easily.

puggypuggy - she weighs 5kg (same as my cat ) She does eat out of a plastic bowl ??!? I have noticed the face rubbing has not happened the past few nights?!?! I also feed her on the grass so she can munch up her chicken wings without making a mess. In fact, if i try feed her elsewhere now, she still takes them onto the grass.

Would the next step be the antihistamines to establish it is an allergy? or I am going to get those omegaderm tablets - i actually went to a chemist that was listed as having them, but they no longer stock them as noone was buying them. I pointed out the fact that i found it super unusual to go to a human chemist to ask for a canine product... strange isn't it? Anyway, am hoping to get some today.

thanks for the input :-)

[persephone]

It really does sound like an allergy...

and detective work is required to isolate the trigger!

[BrunoBella]

RosieFT

Where are you located? My GSPs are allergic to grass, a weekly trip to the beach fixes it all. I don't like steroids antihistamines, I tried them but they were expensive and don't work as well as salt water bath (in the sea).

Are you near a beach?

Otherwise you will have to make your own salt water bath

Have fun and don't pack your back pack. It's not that bad.

edited for stupidity...

Edited December 6, 2008 by BellasPerson

[BrunoBella]

persephone - i have not looked into hollistic vets or anything at this point. Still hoping I will find something to ease the itching as it is not *yet* causing her harm and to be honest, we had noticed a significant reduction in scritching for the 2 days after I washed her with episoothe. However, this morning she seems to be just as itchy. It says on teh bottle to do it once a week.

Neats - i was her in warm water too :-) But standing around for 10mins she started to shiver a bit. She tends to feel the cold really easily.

puggypuggy - she weighs 5kg (same as my cat ) She does eat out of a plastic bowl ??!? I have noticed the face rubbing has not happened the past few nights?!?! I also feed her on the grass so she can munch up her chicken wings without making a mess. In fact, if i try feed her elsewhere now, she still takes them onto the grass.

Would the next step be the antihistamines to establish it is an allergy? or I am going to get those omegaderm tablets - i actually went to a chemist that was listed as having them, but they no longer stock them as noone was buying them. I pointed out the fact that i found it super unusual to go to a human chemist to ask for a canine product... strange isn't it? Anyway, am hoping to get some today.

thanks for the input :-)

Another thing, RosieFT

Human drugs do not work the same on dogs as they do on people. I would not give my dogs antihistamines no matter how bad their rash is. There is no way you can work out a corrrect dose or even if it works on them.

My vet said No Way to my discussion on antihistamines.

[BrunoBella]

I forgot another thing. Its too early in the morning

The allergy on my two was a red rash on their tummy, armpits (doggy equivalent), inside ears and on the face. I don't know that it is related to her eating. Bella just developed her spring rash two weeks ago.

The Epi Soothe wash sounds good as well.

I chose the swimming cause it fixes the face and ear redness as well.

Off to the beach to fix their allergies

[stormie]

persephone - i have not looked into hollistic vets or anything at this point. Still hoping I will find something to ease the itching as it is not *yet* causing her harm and to be honest, we had noticed a significant reduction in scritching for the 2 days after I washed her with episoothe. However, this morning she seems to be just as itchy. It says on teh bottle to do it once a week.

Neats - i was her in warm water too :-) But standing around for 10mins she started to shiver a bit. She tends to feel the cold really easily.

puggypuggy - she weighs 5kg (same as my cat ) She does eat out of a plastic bowl ??!? I have noticed the face rubbing has not happened the past few nights?!?! I also feed her on the grass so she can munch up her chicken wings without making a mess. In fact, if i try feed her elsewhere now, she still takes them onto the grass.

Would the next step be the antihistamines to establish it is an allergy? or I am going to get those omegaderm tablets - i actually went to a chemist that was listed as having them, but they no longer stock them as noone was buying them. I pointed out the fact that i found it super unusual to go to a human chemist to ask for a canine product... strange isn't it? Anyway, am hoping to get some today.

thanks for the input :-)

Another thing, RosieFT

Human drugs do not work the same on dogs as they do on people. I would not give my dogs antihistamines no matter how bad their rash is. There is no way you can work out a corrrect dose or even if it works on them.

My vet said No Way to my discussion on antihistamines.

You're vet needs to update his knowledge! Antihistamines are very widely used and doses are well documented. They are commonly prescribed by Veterinary Dermatologists and many people have found them very successful in relieving allergies. They are quite safe to use.

[stormie]

RosieFT - maybe you could speak to your vet about getting a referral to a Dermatologist? The sooner you can start eliminating the causes the better and once you know what the causes are, you will know what products and foods etc that your dog should avoid.

I have started on the testing process for my young boy who has had allergies since a pup, and have recently found out that oatmeal and fish are amongst several things he is allergic to, so fish oils are out as are oatmeal based lotions and shampoos.

There are simple blood tests available now that can give you similar results to intradermal skin tests. They are a little pricey, but well worth it IMO if it means you can work towards relieving the itchies. Food elimination diets can help rule out food allergies, but you need to be careful what you use, as many commercial elimination diets still have things like corn, soy etc that might actually be the cause of the problems.

Hope this helps!