Forced To Move Out

[momosan]

Yes we've been served. Yes the body corporate has imposed their By-Law 16 to forbid us from having a pet in our unit and to fine us if we don't comply. Their reasons for not wanting dogs in the building? Here goes:

-Dogs are dirty and carry disease, germs and fleas through the common areas

-Dog treading through the carpets and tiles will contribute to the wear and tear

-Dogs may jump up on the elderly senior citizens and potentially hurt or injure them

-Dog may attack and may attract a lawsuit and extra hassle of going through litigation to prove the strata has not been negligent

We'll carry and restrain our dog when we go out for a walk. No, that's not good enough. All dogs out!

Is it just me or are they a bunch of ignorant no-brainers?

This issue has affected my family greatly as our 7 year old Lhasa Apso is well behaved/trained and doesn't even bark and very much a part of the family. It'll probably destroy us if we have to return him to the pound where we got him. It is most upsetting to be forced to leave a home we rightfully own and purchased. Selling our unit is not wise at such a time, we certainly can't afford to purchase another property and trying to rent a place that will allow pets is harder than drawing blood from stone.

Can I sue for pain and suffering? Maybe not.

Yes I am going to Fair Trading for mediation but my chances of staying is slim.

My advice to animal lovers out there buying a unit, strata scheme can change their By-Laws to forbid animals in future even if they've allowed pets before.

Here's a link to get you started:

http://www.lawsociety.com.au/uploads/filel...55815147537.pdf

Edited November 30, 2008 by momosan

[Rysup]

I would fight this if you were there before they changed the rules? If the by-law existed before you moved in you would not have much luck. There was a similar story on Today Tonight a while back, about a highrise apartment changing their laws and making all the dogs leave - they were fighting it and refused to leave or remove their dogs.

Best of luck momosan. And please dont send your Lhasa back to the pound - contact your closest breed club. There are only two of them, but we will both try our hardest to help you rehome your Lhasa if it comes to that. We dont like to see them dumped in the pound.

[GeckoTree]

I just read yesterday someone in melbourne spent 50 grand trying to fight body corporates to keep their dog, what a waste of money, no way she'd have been able to keep the dog anyway, they did'nt even allow budgies, or even a single solitary goldfish in a bowel to live in the apartments!

More $ than sence.

[Ci]

Sorry I don't quite understand?? Did you check with your BC before buying the property and they allowed dogs when you brought the unit and have just recently changed the rules to not allow dogs?

Can BC do this? My BC can't and we as owners can fire and change BC is we want to.

Then surely this would be affecting more than just one lot of owners? Are there others there that have dogs?

Edited December 1, 2008 by Ci

[mita]

I'm so sorry you've been put in this situation.

I've always thought any place with a body corporate that makes decisions which affect everyone else, is to be avoided. Easier said than done, tho'...because it's increasingly the only choice to live in a unit or townhouse.

I could be very wrong, but I thought that even if a Body Corporate originally said OK to pets....when there's a change in residents & a change in the BC membership, they can come out with a No to pets. If this is so, it's appalling.

I wish you the best with the mediation.

If the worst comes to the worst.....& I sincerely hope not.....don't return your lovely Lhasa to the pound. There are other alternatives for finding a good home.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I just read yesterday someone in melbourne spent 50 grand trying to fight body corporates to keep their dog, what a waste of money, no way she'd have been able to keep the dog anyway, they did'nt even allow budgies, or even a single solitary goldfish in a bowel to live in the apartments!

More $ than sence.

The dog did not even live there it just visited a couple of times a week.

[Nekhbet]

-Dogs are dirty and carry disease, germs and fleas through the common areas

-Dog treading through the carpets and tiles will contribute to the wear and tear

-Dogs may jump up on the elderly senior citizens and potentially hurt or injure them

-Dog may attack and may attract a lawsuit and extra hassle of going through litigation to prove the strata has not been negligent

number 1 is rediculous if you prove you regularly maintain your dog with products. Humans carry more diseases that can cause outbreaks in other people then bloody dogs do. And unless you are picking dog poo with your hands and eating it then how are you going to transfer worms? As for fleas - guess what. The roaming cats do more to spread fleas then most dogs ever will so argument is null and void.

number 2 is extra rediculous if you OWN your unit. WHo's business is it anyway with wear and tear? You own it you replace it! So what, no guests either because they contribute to wear and tear? please

number 3 - well I hope they have installed ramps, handrails and foam padding on everything because there are a hundred more ways for a senior citizen to hurt themselves then having an imaginary dog jump on them

number 4 is crap also. A drunk neighbour may attack before a dog. I hope they dont allow cars because those things cause a shiteload of damage, especially when half blind elderly citizens cannot drive them properly

They are rediculous, if you have been allowed all this time to keep your dog then fight it. Also why the heck would you consider giving it back to the pound?

[momosan]

I will NEVER return my Lhasa nor abandon him that's why we're trying to look for a place that will allow pets to rent before the Body Corp serves us the notice to remove the dogs. Or they will apply to fine us. First fine = $550 and the second will jump to $5500. I'm not about to let them have my $ but I'll definitely continue with the mediation.

This building used to have cats and dogs but all of the owners sold out and moved away except one other unit and myself. Hence we are outnumbered. I acquired my Lhasa before they passed the By law and that's why we are going to mediation and hopefully we have a chance This is no longer a matter whether we still want to live here, but a matter of letting them know they can't impose their unreasonable views on us.

The reasons they gave are ridiculous and completely brainless and here is another one I just remembered - human beings and animals should not live together.

There is no way in the world I will buy another unit to live in again. Units are good for investment if you don't care what happens in the building as long as the rents keep coming in.

I get so mad just thinking about this.

[Dory the Doted One]

How sad it is, that there are so many people so opposed to pets!

What bitter people they must be. Lonely bitter people. To even deny the pleasure to someone else.

I wish you the best in looking for somewhere else.

I always wondered about these places, and why anyone would choose to live in one.

But then...I don't like to be told how I can live in my own home.

[MissAloof]

Going decades back when strata units were new in NSW, not allowing pets was one common by-law. I heard there was some change a couple of years back that did allow them, but the BC could change that or stick to the original. I've also heard that some modern apartment blocks are allowing pets nowadays.

Reading that link to the NSW Law Society I notice there's at least one ambiguous bit of info in the rental section, which makes me wonder what else they've not made clear.

I'm confused by your post - if the BC is invoking a by-law or clause that already existed, does that mean you got the dog when it wasn't allowed? If so, I don't understand why you'd do that. Or is this a new by-law they've made? One reason I think to be on the Committee, at least you get a say in what goes on.

[momosan]

Going decades back when strata units were new in NSW, not allowing pets was one common by-law. I heard there was some change a couple of years back that did allow them, but the BC could change that or stick to the original. I've also heard that some modern apartment blocks are allowing pets nowadays.

Reading that link to the NSW Law Society I notice there's at least one ambiguous bit of info in the rental section, which makes me wonder what else they've not made clear.

I'm confused by your post - if the BC is invoking a by-law or clause that already existed, does that mean you got the dog when it wasn't allowed? If so, I don't understand why you'd do that. Or is this a new by-law they've made? One reason I think to be on the Committee, at least you get a say in what goes on.

The By Law 16 was only passed after we've had our pets and my husband is on the committee but he wasn't even notified about the action they were taking until we received a letter from our Strata Mgr.

[MissAloof]

Going decades back when strata units were new in NSW, not allowing pets was one common by-law. I heard there was some change a couple of years back that did allow them, but the BC could change that or stick to the original. I've also heard that some modern apartment blocks are allowing pets nowadays.

Reading that link to the NSW Law Society I notice there's at least one ambiguous bit of info in the rental section, which makes me wonder what else they've not made clear.

I'm confused by your post - if the BC is invoking a by-law or clause that already existed, does that mean you got the dog when it wasn't allowed? If so, I don't understand why you'd do that. Or is this a new by-law they've made? One reason I think to be on the Committee, at least you get a say in what goes on.

The By Law 16 was only passed after we've had our pets and my husband is on the committee but he wasn't even notified about the action they were taking until we received a letter from our Strata Mgr.

It's common to first know of a matter when notified by Strata management, unless an owner is more involved with the goings-on of the building (and that brings its own hassles).

Even though the decades I lived in different strata blocks it was always the older "no pets allowed" if your place only introduced a by-law about it recently that's a different thing.

In hindsight, it probably would've been the time to contact DFT back then. I'd give them a call ASAP. I've found them really good. My dealings with CTTT have not been though, they're useless and told me they only answer to themselves.

Also, have a talk to your Strata Managers. Most of them too have a sloppy reputation but they may be able to give you some advice. You mention another owner - do they have a pet too? If so, try and get them on side.

Good luck. Fighting BC can be awful.

[Nekhbet]

human beings and animals should not live together

sounds to me like you are being descriminated against for owning a dog and being pushed out of your own home ...

A Current Affair or Today Tonight would be a good place to go to as well I think wont that make all the BC people look like heartless bastards for forcing you to either give up your dog or leave a home that YOU own.

[Trisven13]

If you're in NSW I know quite a bit about Strata laws - get a lawyer but you may still lose depending on the wording of the by-law.

If the by-law was put in place after you moved in did you attend the AGM at which the resolution was passed? If not that probably wasn't a great idea. Strata laws are very strict, and for a reason, it is not easy to win if you have done the wrong thing under the laws.

Can you post the wording of the by-law? Best bet is to not be antognistic at this point as it will just makes other dig in their heels. Are there any owners in the block who are happy with you having a dog? If so you need to get their details. If not I would say you're screwed sadly.

ETA Seriously - reading what you've written if your OH is on the Executive Committee and the by-law was passed without him you may have a case but NOW is the time to get legal advice - ring the Law Society and get a referral to a strata law specialist (you may well get my boss :rolleyes: - whoever you get will only be able to act if they don't already act for the Strata Manager). In my experience Strata Managers are very good but they're guided by their Owners Corporation. If yours don't like dogs you're going to have an uphill battle. Doing nothing will mean you lose - you have to fight PROPERLY from the beginning. Good luck.

Trish

Edited December 1, 2008 by Trisven13

[momosan]

If you're in NSW I know quite a bit about Strata laws - get a lawyer but you may still lose depending on the wording of the by-law.

If the by-law was put in place after you moved in did you attend the AGM at which the resolution was passed? If not that probably wasn't a great idea. Strata laws are very strict, and for a reason, it is not easy to win if you have done the wrong thing under the laws.

Can you post the wording of the by-law? Best bet is to not be antognistic at this point as it will just makes other dig in their heels. Are there any owners in the block who are happy with you having a dog? If so you need to get their details. If not I would say you're screwed sadly.

ETA Seriously - reading what you've written if your OH is on the Executive Committee and the by-law was passed without him you may have a case but NOW is the time to get legal advice - ring the Law Society and get a referral to a strata law specialist (you may well get my boss - whoever you get will only be able to act if they don't already act for the Strata Manager). In my experience Strata Managers are very good but they're guided by their Owners Corporation. If yours don't like dogs you're going to have an uphill battle. Doing nothing will mean you lose - you have to fight PROPERLY from the beginning. Good luck.

Trish

So, even if we've had written permission before the by law was passed, we still don't stand a chance? Unfortunately out of the 18 units in our block only 3 -4 units don't mind dogs. I will post the wording tonight however I am not convinced our Strata Mgr is telling us the truth when he said "animals" (exact wording in By-law) does not include caged animals such as birds or rabbits which are animals the other 2 units have. Is this right? I attended the meeting that they passed the By Law and was outnumbered.

How much do Strata Lawyers charge per minute/hour? We know we won't win but thought we'd go through the mediation anyway and in the meantime searching for place to move to. I am in NSW.

By posting the wording of the By Law, am I at any risks?

[MissAloof]

If you're in NSW I know quite a bit about Strata laws - get a lawyer but you may still lose depending on the wording of the by-law.

If the by-law was put in place after you moved in did you attend the AGM at which the resolution was passed? If not that probably wasn't a great idea. Strata laws are very strict, and for a reason, it is not easy to win if you have done the wrong thing under the laws.

Can you post the wording of the by-law? Best bet is to not be antognistic at this point as it will just makes other dig in their heels. Are there any owners in the block who are happy with you having a dog? If so you need to get their details. If not I would say you're screwed sadly.

ETA Seriously - reading what you've written if your OH is on the Executive Committee and the by-law was passed without him you may have a case but NOW is the time to get legal advice - ring the Law Society and get a referral to a strata law specialist (you may well get my boss - whoever you get will only be able to act if they don't already act for the Strata Manager). In my experience Strata Managers are very good but they're guided by their Owners Corporation. If yours don't like dogs you're going to have an uphill battle. Doing nothing will mean you lose - you have to fight PROPERLY from the beginning. Good luck.

Trish

So, even if we've had written permission before the by law was passed, we still don't stand a chance? Unfortunately out of the 18 units in our block only 3 -4 units don't mind dogs. I will post the wording tonight however I am not convinced our Strata Mgr is telling us the truth when he said "animals" (exact wording in By-law) does not include caged animals such as birds or rabbits which are animals the other 2 units have. Is this right? I attended the meeting that they passed the By Law and was outnumbered.

How much do Strata Lawyers charge per minute/hour? We know we won't win but thought we'd go through the mediation anyway and in the meantime searching for place to move to. I am in NSW.

By posting the wording of the By Law, am I at any risks?

My experience has been that a new by-law overides any older stuff - in my place up north I had a new by-law done regarding some of the common property. That wiped out anything that previously existed.

Though in that case it was easy, only 2 strata lots so we had 50-50 for agreement and arguments. From previous places, to make a decision a quorum was needed, I think that means a majority or something similar - I don't have that info at hand - best bet is as Trish suggested, get someone who does know the finer details.

Some places I've lived in, the residents have had birds in cages. They were allowed, cats were not (becase they really do usually stink up the common areas and owners won't clean up after them). Never heard about rabbits though, last I heard about them was they were only allowed if the local council allowed them - which some still don't. I think you can go online and get a copy of strata laws and animals, if you want to make a point of that. DFT used to have all sorts of info to download.

That's just my 2cents worth, I'm not a solicitor but lived in NSW strata blocks for decades. And had a lot of dealings with strata managers, BCs, and the DFT regarding it all.

[momosan]

If you're in NSW I know quite a bit about Strata laws - get a lawyer but you may still lose depending on the wording of the by-law.

If the by-law was put in place after you moved in did you attend the AGM at which the resolution was passed? If not that probably wasn't a great idea. Strata laws are very strict, and for a reason, it is not easy to win if you have done the wrong thing under the laws.

Can you post the wording of the by-law? Best bet is to not be antognistic at this point as it will just makes other dig in their heels. Are there any owners in the block who are happy with you having a dog? If so you need to get their details. If not I would say you're screwed sadly.

ETA Seriously - reading what you've written if your OH is on the Executive Committee and the by-law was passed without him you may have a case but NOW is the time to get legal advice - ring the Law Society and get a referral to a strata law specialist (you may well get my boss - whoever you get will only be able to act if they don't already act for the Strata Manager). In my experience Strata Managers are very good but they're guided by their Owners Corporation. If yours don't like dogs you're going to have an uphill battle. Doing nothing will mean you lose - you have to fight PROPERLY from the beginning. Good luck.

Trish

Well they passed the ByLaw 16 which excluded/deleted the 2nd point which states "The owners corporation must not unreasonably withhold its approval of the keeping of animal on a lot or the common property". That means they can unreasonably withhold or allow.

The more I go into this the more I think I won't stand a chance but I'll have to try.

Thanks to all for your encouragement and thoughts.

[Trisven13]

Sorry - didn't see this. Not sure what a strata lawyer will charge but it won't be super cheap. If you're only renting my recommendation is move out. If you own it and can't afford to sell easily (and lets face it, who can) then IMO it would be worth getting some decent legal advice quickly.

[momosan]

Sorry - didn't see this. Not sure what a strata lawyer will charge but it won't be super cheap. If you're only renting my recommendation is move out. If you own it and can't afford to sell easily (and lets face it, who can) then IMO it would be worth getting some decent legal advice quickly.

IMO?

We've just lodged the Mediation application. Just taking a step at a time. I've gathered the chances are slim and not sure if I can afford a lawyer. We're looking for rental accom that will allow pets - another hurdle but we're trying. There is no way we're giving up our pet.

Fingers crossed.

[Trisven13]

IMO - in my opinion