AngelSoul Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Last friday morning my brothers family found one of their dogs dead in her bed. She just looked like she was asleep. Their other dog appeared healthy, but within the hour he started vomitting, diarrohea and trying to drink heaps of water. The deceased dog was rushed to the vet for an autopsy, along with the sick one for treatment. The vet just observed the sick one, sent him home that afternoon saying he had a tummy bug. The vet said, ( and never bothered to send any tests to a lab) that the other dog died of snake bite. There were no bite marks anywhere on the dog, gums were white with red blotches, tongue was pale, blue towards the throat. Vet said that death was caused by haemorraghing in the throat. There was no blood on the outside of the dog or it's environment. He also said it was co-incidence that the other dog was sick. This all just sounds too weird to me! One dog dies mysteriously....the other is ill (and still ill over a week later).....and it is snakebite? Has anyone experienced any symptoms like this or had a dog die this way. There was no noise during the night, nothing to indicate a painful death. The dog was healthy and alert at 10pm, gone by 6pm. I am very worried that it may have been a baiting of some sort, since the other dog is sick..... Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raycha08 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Hi So sorry to hear about your brothers dogs. I do believe that strychnine works sort of like that, but i think it is illegal, it used to be used on large property's to bait dingoes and foxes. It only takes about an hour for them to die, i have heard that they get really thirsty. It is possible for an animal to haemorrage internally without you seeing any sign of blood on the outside. the red blotchy gums would indicate that there has been haemorrage within the mucosa (eyes, gums, vulva, etc are all mucosa). Hope it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 The vet said, ( and never bothered to send any tests to a lab) An autopsy could have been done but it would be at their expense. Sorry to hear about the dog - hope the other one makes a full recovery from whatever he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Did the Vet do an autopsy on the poor deceased dog? Did the Vet do blood tests on the ill dog? If the ill dog is no better I would be seeking a 2nd opinion asap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelSoul Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 No the vet did not do a full autopsy, that we know of anyway. His comments were just that she still had food in her stomach and she had hemorrhaged in her throat (but we could see that just by looking in her mouth). He did not send any blood work away or do any tests........even on the other sick dog. The deceased dog was as stiff as a board when found at 6am, and as cold as ice - we are in the tropics though and it's stinking hot up here. If she was fine at 10pm, and died after that....would that be enough time for rigor to set in? Or would that add to the question of if it was Strychnine poisoning somehow? The other dog is okay, but he still cannot stomach anything but cooked fatless chicken and a little rice. He even had a bit of blood in his poo yesterday from straining still (we are treating him with Ensal, I think it is, to settle his belly again). But the vet couldn't find any bites or anything from the snake, nothing. And just ..almost dismissed the other boy's sickness as a tummy bug...... Does anyone know if vets have to report dog baitings to local councils....it seems really strange and well...I hope I am wrong, but I thought it might have just been easier for the vet to say it was snake bite, to avoid all the paperwork and publicity this might bring. My brother and his family are just devastated. The girl that died was rescue and was only 4, the healthiest she had been in her life and to have this happen. They are so worried about their boy now, that he is supervised 24x7 by someone in the family and never left alone. Which is good - but if this is a baiting......I fear that whoever the 'such n such' was they will come back to finish the job. The house is right opposite a primary school....so if it was a baiting, the school would be very concerned with all the kids that walk the area. I wish we could just know what it was....but probably never will. Only try and take precautions. And pray that this is a once off...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raycha08 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 No the vet did not do a full autopsy, that we know of anyway. His comments were just that she still had food in her stomach and she had hemorrhaged in her throat (but we could see that just by looking in her mouth). He did not send any blood work away or do any tests........even on the other sick dog.The deceased dog was as stiff as a board when found at 6am, and as cold as ice - we are in the tropics though and it's stinking hot up here. If she was fine at 10pm, and died after that....would that be enough time for rigor to set in? Or would that add to the question of if it was Strychnine poisoning somehow? The other dog is okay, but he still cannot stomach anything but cooked fatless chicken and a little rice. He even had a bit of blood in his poo yesterday from straining still (we are treating him with Ensal, I think it is, to settle his belly again). But the vet couldn't find any bites or anything from the snake, nothing. And just ..almost dismissed the other boy's sickness as a tummy bug...... Does anyone know if vets have to report dog baitings to local councils....it seems really strange and well...I hope I am wrong, but I thought it might have just been easier for the vet to say it was snake bite, to avoid all the paperwork and publicity this might bring. My brother and his family are just devastated. The girl that died was rescue and was only 4, the healthiest she had been in her life and to have this happen. They are so worried about their boy now, that he is supervised 24x7 by someone in the family and never left alone. Which is good - but if this is a baiting......I fear that whoever the 'such n such' was they will come back to finish the job. The house is right opposite a primary school....so if it was a baiting, the school would be very concerned with all the kids that walk the area. I wish we could just know what it was....but probably never will. Only try and take precautions. And pray that this is a once off...... Such a terrible thing to happen to a family, you are right about the 'such and such' if it was a baiting! As far as i know vets dont have any obligation to report a baiting to council. to many if's for them to make a decision, trust me i worked with them. If the boy is still ill, i would be marching back there and demanding bloods or pathology on his stools, or something to try and narrow it down a little. maybe a second opinion. although maybe it is just a bit of gastro?! rather unfortunate that our beloved's cannot speak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 It doesn't sound from what is written, that the first dog had any gastric symptoms, and what was described, yes does sound like snakebite, so it could well just be an unfortunate coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Rigormortis sets in very quickly after death. Within a couple of hours, so that wouldn't hold any clue to how she died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I would be getting the ill dog back to the Vet( or another preferablt as it sounds like the first Vet mucked up IMHO)) and demanding full blood tests etc and asking for the dog to be placed on a drip and monitored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I would be getting the ill dog back to the Vet( or another preferablt as it sounds like the first Vet mucked up IMHO)) and demanding full blood tests etc and asking for the dog to be placed on a drip and monitored In what way IYHO did the first Vet muck up?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 (edited) by not carrying out an autopsy on the deceased dog seeing it was a mysterious death and not doing blood tests on the other ill dog. Most Vets I use would suggest an autopsy if a dog died suddenly as this one did and also check the curviving dogs vitals etc via bloods etc Edited November 23, 2008 by InspectorRex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Do we know that the Vet didn't autopsy? The OP states the Vet said the dog still had food in its stomach. Lots of assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 What a terrible thing to have happened. Sorry for your loss I don't think that the first vet has mucked up. It's up to the owners to request and authorize an autopsy. Seeing the first dog didn't show any symptoms, I don't think you can assume that their health problems are related. Is it possible that the second dog is stressed with the loss of its friend? Have you spoken to your vet to inform them that there has been no improvement? If their first course of treatment hasn't worked, you need to tell them and take the dog back so that it can be investigated further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Quote : The deceased dog was rushed to the vet for an autopsy, along with the sick one for treatment. The vet just observed the sick one, sent him home that afternoon saying he had a tummy bug.He did not send any blood work away or do any tests........even on the other sick dog. To me, that is remiss on the part of the Vet. If a dog dies suddenly for no apparent reason I would be wanting answers and if I have another dog ill I would be wanting blood tests etc. Eg: In April this year our Gracie brought in a dead mouse. Worried that it might have been baited I rang my Vet who sad "bring her in and any other animals you have" Vet did activated clotting tests on Gracie and her mum Phoebe. Phoebe was okay but Gracie was nearly twice the anormal range and put straight on Vit K. That is what I call a Vet- one that thinks outside the immediate danger. Vet could have easily just tested Gracie but Vet cared anough about all our dogs to test them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Quote :The deceased dog was rushed to the vet for an autopsy, along with the sick one for treatment. The vet just observed the sick one, sent him home that afternoon saying he had a tummy bug.He did not send any blood work away or do any tests........even on the other sick dog. To me, that is remiss on the part of the Vet. If a dog dies suddenly for no apparent reason I would be wanting answers and if I have another dog ill I would be wanting blood tests etc. Eg: In April this year our Gracie brought in a dead mouse. Worried that it might have been baited I rang my Vet who sad "bring her in and any other animals you have" Vet did activated clotting tests on Gracie and her mum Phoebe. Phoebe was okay but Gracie was nearly twice the anormal range and put straight on Vit K. That is what I call a Vet- one that thinks outside the immediate danger. Vet could have easily just tested Gracie but Vet cared anough about all our dogs to test them all. It can also be called over-servicing. I don't read that the dog died 'suddenly' - just that it died overnight. It could have gone peacefully in its sleep - sometimes that just happens for no rhyme or reason and not sure why they rushed to the vet for an autopsy. If there is nothing obviously wrong with my dog other than gastro symptoms then I would prefer to observe and leave invasive tests and then if no improvement then look at further steps/ testing. OT - did Gracie eat the mouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I don't call it over -servicing.I call it caring for the welfare of said animal BTW Gracie had the mouse in her mouth and when I got it out it was all covered in dog saliva. Normal ACT for a dog os 95 and Gracie's ACT was 175. She would have died had my Vet not conducted tests. The first Vet I rang had an attitude of "she should be okay " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Wow - that was pretty unfortunate IR - I was not aware that a dog could get baited through having a baited mouse in its mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Did the vet deny an autopsy? IR - the remaining dog would only require IV fluids if it wasn't drinking or keeping down water. From what the OP says it is tolerating some food so it's obviously not getting sicker. Had the first dog died of gasto related illness there would surely be evidence of vomiting or diarrhoea. The haemorraging in the throat is a pretty good indication that there was clotting problems. The second dog however, is showing no signs of having clotting problems (blood in poo is normal with gut irritation) but is showing signs of having some sort of gastro problem which it seems to be recovering from. There is no reason to think that the two problems are linked - the dogs have nothing similar in their symptoms. Surely the owners could seek a second opinion from another vet if they were still concerned? Can they think for themselves? Why does everyone jump to conclusions about vet management? As a PP said - the autopsy is done at request of the owners. If they wanted one done and the vet refused then I am sure another vet would have obliged. They aren't cheap and it may have been the case that the vet thought it was a waste of their money considering the obvious evidence of haemorrhage within the dogs throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelSoul Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 Thanks to everyone for your relies. I saw the deceased dog, she did look like she was just asleep, but it was obvious there was something wrong by her throat and gums. Yes....we thought that maybe she had a heart problem or something we didn't know about and died in her sleep. But then the other dog started violently vomiting all over the place, then he started squirting poo everywhere and we had to hold him back from the water bowl. So with one dog dead, the family a blubbering mess.....and in complete shock.....we weren't going to sit around and observe the one live dog...to see if he got better! The deceased dog had not vomited or poo'ed abnormally during the night. I didn't go to the vet, but my brother said he asked for an autopsy to find out what killed and her, and of course to find out what was wrong with the male dog. My brother said the vet was short staffed that day, and wouldn't get to do the autopsy till after lunch so we called the vet throughout the morning to see if the male had changed. The male dog was treated with anti-biotics for a few days and something to settle his stomach, and fasted. The vet wanted to keep him in overnight for observation...(but observation in a small vet like that, just means kept quite in a crate, unattended and unmanned, until the vet comes in the next morning)....so my brother's family took him home to observe him themselves, and call the vet AH if they had too. At least he had someone watching him all night. His bowels have slowed again this afternoon but he will be going back to the vet tomorrow if he is still not well. I really just wanted people's opinions or experiences on symptoms of poisoning or snakebites? Yes, I am not happy with not getting any blood work done on the deceased dog.....another life lesson...even in grief and shock you have to remember to push to get things done! My apologies if it appears that I don't have a great deal of faith in this vet - but not more than 4 months ago, the same vet told me my dog had cancer and to put him down. I traveled to a specialist some 12 hours away to see if I could save him, he's 2. Only to be told that my dog did not have cancer at all.....that there had been a mix up in the lab tests somehow. So lucky, I didn't put my dog down when told to......and followed my instincts in that case. So yes, I am a little wary if enough was done to establish the cause of death. I guess we will really never know, she has been cremated now. We just cross our hearts, that this does not happen again to the other dog! Thank you all for your thoughts and kind words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 My apologies if it appears that I don't have a great deal of faith in this vet - but not more than 4 months ago, the same vet told me my dog had cancer and to put him down. I traveled to a specialist some 12 hours away to see if I could save him, he's 2. Only to be told that my dog did not have cancer at all.....that there had been a mix up in the lab tests somehow. So lucky, I didn't put my dog down when told to......and followed my instincts in that case. I'm utterly speechless... lucky that you got a second opinion. Sorry to hear of the loss of your brothers girl, and hoping his boy gets better soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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