Regular Red Gums, Lot Of Drooling/horrible Smell

[mita]

Help please with ideas/experiences. I think cocker spaniel owners once talked about something like this, on DOL. They talked about something that needed cleaning out in the gum or inner lip area.

Request from an owner of 2 tibbies. Boy (Ben), girl (Molly) both adopted from a shelter, so no history. Not even if they're related like brother sister.

Owner says:

"Ben ges a drooling mouth & red gums. This happens often & the smell is terrible. Molly got it for the first time recently. Both have had full dentals, so it's not that. The vet is puzzled....they're treated with antibiotics which clears it up. But it returns.

I can't find anything in the garden which might cause it. Has anything had tibbies (or other dogs) with the same thing?'

[Toohey]

Lip fold dermatitis, though it sounds more severe than usual if that is what it is. The drooling does not sound typical, nor the redness.

Ask the owner to get some natural apple cider vinegar and use neat on a cotton wool swab to clean all around the mouth and in the lip folds Mita.

[mita]

That was it, what the cocker folk talked about! Lip fold dermatitis. You're right, they didn't mention red gums. Only the horrible smell.

I'll pass on the tip about the apple cider vinegar. Thanks, Toohey.

It really is a puzzle....especially as the girl tibbie is now also getting it.

Has anyone else had dogs with something like this?

Edited November 19, 2008 by mita

[CavsRcute]

?? Not some sort of allergy to the feed or water bowl.

[mita]

?? Not some sort of allergy to the feed or water bowl.

My first thought was allergy. Your idea about food or water bowl would explain why both would have it. Easy to try out, too.....by changing bowls.

I'd also wondered about some deep-seated parasite thingy....like ear mites that's set up an allergic reaction.

[zayda_asher]

Do they show any other (subtle or not) symptoms of allergy?

My boy gets a red, swollen mouth (painful) with drooling as a part of his reaction to atopic allergies. His breath will also change in smell to coppery (like you get with blood, but there is none).

Edited November 19, 2008 by zayda_asher

[mita]

No, zayda. No other symptoms, even subtle. Just the red gums, horrible smell & much drooling.

But I agree the best bet is some kind of allergy-type thingy.

Friends today reminded me that their tibbie boy had an auto-immune condition which was treated with steroids.

It involved some reaction in the blood & would be accompanied by a horrible smell.

So I'm thinking vet should check the allergy/auto-immune track.

[Staff'n'Toller]

We had an ACD patient like that who ended up having her salivary glands removed - they were abnormal.

Same symptoms!

ETA: Needed to be removed by a specialist.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Staff'n'Toller

[chuckie500]

If there r red gums, they r inflamed. I'd get a second opinion from a vet with post-grad quals in vet dentistry. When we go to the dentist not all gum/teeth problems are solved in one visit. I think we refer to having a "dental" for our dogs its a scale and clean. If antibiotics clear it up, to me it sounds like an infection of sorts.

??Just thoughts.

[mita]

Thanks, S & T and chuckie. I'll pass your thoughts on to the owner. Both are well worth investigating.

[puggy_puggy]

Yeast infection? Tonsil infection?

Does sounds like an infection seeing that antibiotics treat it and now both of them have it.

Were any teeth removed when they had the dentals? Did the holes heal properly?

Might be a hard thing to do but maybe the owners could try flushing the gums with syringes of warm salty water for a few days and see if that makes an improvement.

[curlygirl]

A client I know with a cavalier with lip fold dermatitis tried aquadent in the water as the last step before surgery. She is thrilled with the results and isnt going to have surgery for now.

[Jed]

Mita, it sounds like an infected tooth, or a couple of infected teeth, to me. The infection may be below and gum line, I also would see a specialist in dental matters.

The other option COULD be - cancer, but I'd explore the infected tooth theory first. It's not very likely. Lip fold dermatitis would not produce red gums.

Curly girl, what is aquadent, please?

[curlygirl]

Hi Jed, Aquadent is a product containing chlorhexidine (I think, going from memory here). Its formulated for use in animals, you add a certain amount to their drinking water daily and it helps with tooth problems ( tat tar build up), bad breath and coincidentally lip fold dermatitis according to some people.

[sugclasco]

this might be way off but one of my cats had these symptoms from when she was a kitten ,not sure if there is something similar in dogs , here is a link to what my cat had ('juvenile onset' stomatitis) its a hypersensitivity or allergic reaction to bacterial plaque

it may help :rolleyes:

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2121&aid=368

[ellz]

My first thought upon reading this was tonsils. Especially as antibiotics cleared it up and then it returned when the antibiotics where finished. Followed closely by another vote for lip fold dermatitis although I've never had it treated with antibiotics before, just anti-fungals.

[mita]

Thanks for that info, ellz. I'll pass it on to the person enquiring.

Jed, the odd thing is that the female tibbie girl is now starting to show the same symptoms. No way of knowing if the dogs have a genetic link....but it could point to something 'catchable'.

Puggy-puggy, no teeth removed during the dentals.

Curlygirl, good thought about the Aquadent. I actually bought some in the past to put in my dogs' water.

Sugclasco, it makes sense that a dog....as well as a cat....could be allergic to bacterial plaque.

I'll pass all suggestions on.

DOL at its best!