Dr Jean Dodds Thinks I Should Get A Complete Thyroid Antibody Profile

[Rappie]

I can't really give specific advice about what you should do. It's really up to you do choose which tests you can afford and what will give you peace of mind.

[peigirl]

FTPO thyriod testing aside can I ask why you are considering Atopica? Have you tried antihistamines yet or a low dose of steriods? Atopica is a very strong drug, normally people only use it as a last resort.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

No worry Rappie - thank you for your input!

Pei - that is our last resort med - see we have trialled 4 different antihistamines thus far - none have worked, possibly doing a second food trial, Possibly more thyroid testing, and a suggestion by Jean Dodds is Temaril - P. So we have quite away to go until/if Benson is trialled on Atopica but the cost freaked me out so I wanted to be sure if that is the path we finally end up taking then the insurance will cover it as I can not afford that kind of money mthly.

[stormie]

FTPO - Have you seen a dermatologist? We thought about running the same bloods on Orbit after my vet and I went to see Jean. But when we really looked at his symptoms, history etc, we are sure it is atopy and are going to so skin tests instead. It's not cheap, but I'd much rather do that with the hope that we can lessen his symptoms and reduce the need for meds.

Atopy sucks majorly, I know. Orbit has it pretty bad so I totally get your frustrations. Just keep going through the antihistamines, but again, I've learnt its probably best to do this under guidance of a dermatologist as they'll have more knowledge on doses etc.

Remember goldens are also prone to have atopy too

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Thanks Stormie - well i am going to hopefully have a long chat with my vet friend in the next few days and see what she thinks. Whether to see a dermatologist and do the intradermal sking testing, do the thyroid testing or try the food trial one more time before proceeding with anything else.

Man why do it have to be sooooo hard!

Also going to add here Benson's History so you can all see what we have done thus far.

C4 6 wks - 03/04/07

C5 10 wks - 14/05/07

C5 14 wks - 26/05/07

Desexed 10/08/07

Around 8 mths of age the scratching started. First hot spots to develop were in Oct-Nov 07.

Dexafort Injection 24/11/07

10 Cephalexin 600mg Tabs 24/11/07

Bought on line around this time EQyss Shampoo and Spray

http://www.eqyss.com/pet_microtek_shampoo.asp

http://www.eqyss.com/pet_microtek_spray.asp

Around this time tried Permoxin Spray

Started on Fish Oil Tabs and Evening Primrose Tabs (Nov 08)

20 Cephalexin 600mg Tabs 15/12/07

30 Macralone Tabs 15/12/07

Bought on line late Dec Evening Primrose Oil Shampoo

http://www.groomersproducts.com.au/groomersproducts.htm

KO tablets - Sprayed entire yard 30/01/08

Homeopath Vet - Homeopathic drug 09/02/08

Started on Mega Oil around Feb 08 (15 mls daily)

Changed from EP Holistic Duck & Oatmeal to Orijen Mar 08

Homeopath Vet - Homeopathic drug and said to increase Mega Oil to 50mls a day 08/03/08

Homeopath Vet - sent Malaseb, Graphites Oitment & New Homeopathic Drug as this happened

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/spi...en/IMG_1017.jpg

Homeopath Vet - Homeopathic Drug, Clivers Complex, Vets All Natural Health Booster 05/04/08

C5 22/06/08

Homeopath Vet - Homeopathic drug and ear cleaner 30/08/08

Since mid Aug 08 itching increased again - has wore Elizabethan Collar from early Sept until Nov 14th almost 24/7

Changed from Mega Oil to Mega Derm on the 28/09/08

Pyohex Shampoo - washed every wk for 4 weeks since 28/09/08. Not washed since 05/11/08 and smelly, oily feeling, scrappy looking like crumpling oily human hair.

Elimination food trial started 30/09/08 - Roo & Sweet potato - finished on 07/11/08 - no change. Returned to Orijen.

Claratyne trialled for 1 wk - absolutely no change.

Vet visit 14/11/08 – thyroid test deemed normal score 29 and put on to Prednisole to spot scratching and Panalog to treat ear infection. Possbly Atopy but will conduct 2nd food trial to eliminate food allergies as previously Interceptor Spectrum and Megaderm where used during the initial food trial and could have contaminated results due to both containing other proteins

Further he seems lethargic and sad most of the time, unless out at the dog park he doesn't really wag his tail too much and seems sullen, depressed. Has had several eye infections with greeny discharge since 8 mths of age, waxy left ear since Jul 08 and previously a greeny discharge from his penis. He seems to have lost weight - not sure how much. He is always hungry but that could be the Golden in him. His coat is coarser from mid back to hind. He does not like to lie in the same spot for longer than an hour - personally I feel this is cause he is always hot.

Overall he is not a happy dog. Easily startled. Weary of having his hot spots treated. Flighty when I open door to deck in anticipation of having a treatment. Gets up from sleep every time I walk from one room to another. Constantly scratching and flick head back to try to chew at back, legs, groin or tail - prevented by Elizabethan Collar. I slap the area that he is trying to get to and it seems to soothe the itching some.

Here is a photo of his groin http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u75/spi...en/IMG_1798.jpg

And when you wash him you can see through the coat, darkening of the skin where previous hotspots have been or where he has scratched/chewed at.

Edited November 17, 2008 by First Time Puppy Owner

[stormie]

Interesting he got worse about August... that's when we started to flare up again too this year. Does correspond with the pollen season.

With the food trial, our Dermatologist said we needed to do ours for atleast 12 weeks?

Zayder_Asher gave me some great advice. We are now avoiding all the new generation non-drowsy antihistamines and are having some success with Phenergan, giving him about 1mg/kg twice a day. We have also upped the amount of fish oil (salmon oil) to 1000mg/5kg. Sucks having to open up about 13 capsules every day but it does seem to help and means we can reduce the amount of cortisone he needs.

I also use a dog pine-tar shampoo every couple of days and also rinse him off daily (easier for me with a short coated dog) and that helps too.

IMO, Dermatologists are invaluable. They are the skin experts and have a lot more info to give than your general practice vet. My vets are awesome, but they have learnt a fair bit by watching the process we have gone through with Orbit.

There are also a couple of new blood tests that are now available in Australia that claim to give results that are as reliable as the skin testing. One is the Heska Allercept Serum test, and the other one I can't quite remember the name, but I believe my clinic is going to the launch of it tonight so will have more info on that one tomorrow. As with all tests though there is a drug with holding period you need to follow before you test, so if you do go down that path, make sure you follow it strictly so your money isn't wasted on false results!!

ETA: Our golden used to get hotspots all the time. Hers were from flea allergy and just one bite was enough to make several large areas. They suck

Edited November 18, 2008 by stormie

[Loraine]

I can't remember what number Zedley's T4 was but the path lab asked the vet to check his heart rate and that was a dead give away. It was 30 beats too low. His skin also turned dark in areas, and my vet said that is because he is itchy.

I had done the holistic route, elimination diets, drugs etc. Right now he is great, no smelly skin, better fur cover, no greasy fur and very happy.

I have read a lot about Jean Dodds, and she is a specialist in dog hypothyroidism.. I think you need to go with your gut. As Rappie said, you can have many of the test that Jean does done here more cheaply (I would think). It is the interpretation of the numbers that is important.

Zedley's blood tests a year ago showed low thyroid, BUT the vet on duty at that time mentioned the low thyroid, but did not feel it was pertinent. Second vet, looking at the same tests a year later decided to call the path lab and th rest is history I have had another set of bloods done a couple of weeks ago and the Thyroxine has made a great difference to the test results :rolleyes:

[merikaez]

During that consult Kylie did a T4 test - result 29 and as it was with range (14-52) she has completely has ruled out the possibility of a thyroid problem

A T4 'within range' does not rule out the possibility of low thryoid. This test measures the amount of the hormone in the blood, not the amount that is actually being used.

One of my IGs in a pet home was [to me] obviously low thryoid, but his T4 was always within normal range. Further testing did determine the problem and, on correct dosage of thyroxine, his symptoms have gone

See his story at

http://merikaez.4t.com/Nutmeg.html

From what you say, low thyroid does seem very likely in your dog's case. Have the thyroid tests done. I see no reason why your vet friend should object... its quite normal and acceptable practice to get a second opinion. If she can't cope with that, its her problem, not yours.

[~Anne~]

First time puppy owner, sorry I can't add anything of real value to the thread, but I'd like to say - what a fabulous and caring owner you seem to be. You have really gone the extra mile to help him. You are obviously a wonderful person.

I'll be watching the thread with interest. I attended the seminar of Jean Dodds and am curious about the condition now, although I have no direct relevant experience with it.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

After doing more reading and speaking with my vet friend last night, I have decided not to test for now. I have read that on average the Golden Retriever's range is lower that the norm, thus his level could be considered quite good - is my understanding. Yet it still could be a thyroid issue but is at an early stage so I will ask my vet after we do a second food trial to take full bloods if there is no improvement and by that stage I am hoping to have a little more money saved up to possibly do the intradermal skin test and thyroid testing in the states.

Will keep you all posted as to how we get on, sorry if you don't agree with my decisions but I really have considered so many factors to reach this decision.

PS thank you PRS - I really do love my boy and am trying my best within my means to get to the bottom of the problem with him.

Edited November 18, 2008 by First Time Puppy Owner

[GoldD]

FTPO - you have made a decision and whether others think its right or wrong, no one will disagree with the fact that you are one fantastic dog owner who is trying to do the best for your dog.

As you say, you can always go down the other test road in the future.

I wish both you and Benson all the best for a quick solution to his itchies and a summer hopefully without any more horriffic hot spots and a slowing to his skin problems.

You know how I feel and where I am if you need to chat or need help with anything.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Thank you GoldD that means so much!

[Golden Rules]

FTPO - you have made a decision and whether others think its right or wrong, no one will disagree with the fact that you are one fantastic dog owner who is trying to do the best for your dog.

As you say, you can always go down the other test road in the future.

I wish both you and Benson all the best for a quick solution to his itchies and a summer hopefully without any more horriffic hot spots and a slowing to his skin problems.

You know how I feel and where I am if you need to chat or need help with anything.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

[harper]

Hi FTPO, My dog had hypothyroid symptoms. I think the T4 test is not very conclusive so my vet begrudginly did the TSH (which only cost an extra $48) both came back within the normal range. I got a second opinion from a Greyhound Vet and he decided to try my dog on Thyroxine because of his symptoms.

It didn't make a difference to my dog so he went off it but I was glad to have found a vet that was willing to try something.

Best of luck with your dog.

[First Time Puppy Owner]

Thank you AF and Penski!

[InspectorRex]

Would be interesting to see what a Vet Dermatologist makes of Benson's condition.We had a pup with severe Atopy.

You are like my Dad and I- we took out PetPlan a few months ago and so glad we did.We are only on Pensions but would rather know the furkids can get the care they need if and when they need it and like you would live on mince and 2 minute noodles so they could

Let us all know how Benson goes please

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

FTPO, if you decide not to test now, but to try a food elmination diet, that's your business and no-body has the 'right" to criticise what you are doing. Its is quite obvious that you have Benson's best interests at heart.