Old Fella - Falling Over And Can't Get Up!

[raphsta]

Hi again all,

Thought I'd start a topic re my 15 year old Pug, "Milo" .. He'll be 16 in a few days actually - on the 19th ..

In general, he's had pretty good health. We had a couple of scares, caused by gum infections in the last couple of years - but nothing serious really..

So... he has been slowing down over the past couple of years, but no more so than the last couple of months. We've stopped taking him for his daily walks, as we think it's too much strain on his legs.

He has arthritis, and while he can usually get up without too much drama, he is really lacking strength in his legs - usually when he gets out of bed, he walks around a bit like he's drunk.. I'm not too concerned about this, as he is nearly 16.. BUT.. There is one thing that is a big concern for me.

Occasionally, he rolls onto his side, and simply can't get up! I usually have to pick him up, and he's fine after that.. But when he's on his side, he struggles a LOT trying to push himself up - a few times when I've got to him, he's been breathing very heavily, with his tongue out. He could have been struggling for 10 mins, 20 mins, 1 hour - no idea..

This only started happening every now and then (usually at night), maybe in the last 2 months..

Took him to the vet, and they recommended a low dose of a pain killer called Tramal. We've only given it to him a couple of times - I prefer to give it to him on days when I can see he can't get comfortable sitting, standing, etc.. Although not sure whether Tramal will help with his falling over issue - it may let him get his energy back from a good sleep, to give him enough strength to get out of those situations.

We've swapped his bed for something a lot lower, so there's less chance of him tripping up when going in and out.. He weighs under 7kgs, which is expected for a Pug this age.. He eats well (still goes crazy at 5pm in anticipation for his dinner), drinks a good amount of water, etc.. Only other odd thing I've noticed is that his hair on his rear half seems to be falling out a lot more than usual..

Just wondering if anyone else has had experience with a dog that falls over, and can't get up..

It's having quite an effect on me too, as I now sleep with my door open, so I can wake up if I hear him struggling - but I seem to get up quite often, whenever I hear the slightest noise (I must be sleeping pretty light lately). Everyone tells me not to worry and just close my door - as he'll be OK.. But who knows, he might work himself up so much that he could have a heart attack - who knows???

Thanks again for listening!

Edited November 16, 2008 by raphsta

[Tilly]

Have the vets given him a NSAID or just the pain relief?

You might need to look at getting a NSAID which usually help a little bit in freeing up the joints.

[raphsta]

Have the vets given him a NSAID or just the pain relief?

Just the pain relief.. The vet did mention another option, but I think it was just a different pain killer, instead of Tramal.

Tramal was supposed to be easier on the kidneys than the other option, so was less risky with a dog this age (as the other one stresses the kidneys a bit).

I might give the vet a call again, as NSAIDs sounds like a better fit for his issue. I guess lowering the inflammation would also lower the pain, so maybe Tramal isn't even required..

Do you think it'd be worth giving him supplements such as omega 3/6 ? or Glucosamine Chondroitin? We started give him GC a little a while ago, but my guess is that it won't have much of an effect at his age (and stage of arthritis).

[Rappie]

Tramal is a potent pain reliever but it does not have any effect on inflammation (as an NSAID would). I would strongly recommend a blood test to check liver and kidney function - even a preanaesthetic panel would be useful (to check BUN, CREA, ALP and ALT). If the results are normal, then an NSAID may be appropriate for your Pug, and if so, I'd recommend repeating the testing periodically (say, every 6 months) whilever he is taking the medication.

I (generally) think its always worth trying joint supplements - omega oils, glucosamine / chondroitin as well as cartrophen injections. They may not help every dog, but are worth trying. They can't "undo" what is already occuring within joints, but can help to slow further degeneration and make them more comfortable.

[raphsta]

Thanks Rappie..

We steered away from the full blood test, as he would have to go under anaesthetic - although if there is a prean option, that may be a good idea.

The dosage of Tramal is supposedly on the low range for his weight, but I can't really tell from his behaviour if there is any benefit of giving it to him.

We'll def keep up the glucosamine chondrotin formula, and might add in "The Missing Link" - which appears to be a good Omega supplement, as well as having fibre, etc. I'll search around here on DOL for other products worth considering besides Missing Link.

Appreciate all your input!

[raphsta]

Quick update..

Took him to a new vet, who I'm extremely impressed with.

We started him on Metacam on Friday (first dose was via injection), and some anti-biotics..

Although she mentioned that if this doesn't help, it's time to start thinking about putting him to sleep.. While he can walk around, the gait of his back legs is all over the place. The vet believes there is some neuorolgical damage which is stopping him from controlling his back legs properly, which would also be a factor in him unable to get up when he falls (on top of arthritis and lack of strength).

It really is unfair for him to get into a situation where he falls over and struggles endlessly trying to get up, till he exhausts himself, must be stressful.. Poor guy..

Am hopeful Metacam will help a bit. I think it may help his general comfort level, but I don't know if it will help his falling over situation...

[puglvr]

Unfortunately we have been through exactly the same situation with our dear old boy Errol.Errol was a pug too.

Errol was put to rest 2 weeks ago. It is really an issue of old age. Although your boy may benefit from

the pain killers ect. We made the decision for Errol because he had a very bloated abdomen and as it worked out his bladder was not emptying and the vet said it was neuorolgical damage causing this.

Errol had a couple of incidences where he rolled over and could get up and I worried too that this may cause him to die. If possible bring his bed in near yours then you may both sleep better.

Errol's back legs went weak on him too. The left leg was the worst and the muscle really wasted away. He would drag himself until he could get up onto that leg (especially if their was food around) but it did get to a stage where he could only hold himself up for a couple of minutes.

This pic was taken about an hour before we went to the vets

[raphsta]

Appreciate your response puglvr, and sorry to hear about Errol!

We'll see how he goes this week, then will need to start thinking about making a decision..

If it weren't for the falling over, I don't think we'd be upto the stage of having to make a decision though - which makes it quite tough...

[JulesP]

Hi I have a similar problem with my old border collie. She is about to turn 15. Both backlegs are a bit dodgy (one due to a tendon problem) and that combined with arthritis means she has trouble getting around. She seems to have problems standing up on soft beds so doesn't lay on them anymore. She also has trouble going up the steps into the garden. She come for a walk this morning around the paddocks and was very slow. BUT she is still happy and eating. Very hard to watch the decline though and hard to know when the right time is to say goodbye. A few times last week I thought she was gone as I walked right up and she didn't wake up until I spoke to her. Also having trouble grooming her as she seems to find it uncomfortable. Sigh.

[Nekhbet]

why would you need an anauesthetic to do a full blood screen? Its simply a little more blood taken from the dogs vein???

I would go to a chiropractor and make sure the dog is as thin as possible. Maybe he is just a little too heavy and his spine/pelvis needs and adjustment

I would put him on supplements anyway it cant hurt him. FIsh oil, chondroiten and glucosamine is the way to go