Barf Diet

[my2boys]

I have decided to put my Goldie on a Barf diet after months of skin issues. I have been doing a bit of research but boy there is so much conflicting information out there i.e yes to vegetables, no to vegetables, do supplement, dont supplement on and on. I guess what I need to know what is the ratio for meat and vegetables and do I have to supplement. How much to feed him e.g with the raw meat? I have him on 8 chicken necks in the morning and 2 cups of raw beef(home grown) or chicken at night with some Vets All Natural Complete Mix. Then he will get some marrow bones once or twice a week. When I run out of the VAN I would like to do it all myself. I really dont wont to muck this up as I have heard some very scary stories about stuffing up with Barf.

Any help at this stage would be really appreciated.

my2boys

[koolietas]

Hi my2boys,

I too know how confusing raw feeding can be. I started my sheltie with BARF in the true sense of the word...(ie. Billinghurst) raw meat, bones, offal, fruit & veg with supplements (ACV, kelp, flaxseed meal etc). After a few months of my boy suffering from ear problems and varying degrees of dermatitis, I did much more research and decided on a prey model diet.

Prey model is based on 80% meat, 10% offal & 10% bone - no supplements other than fish oil. I do add eggs a couple of times a week. All raw. Adult dogs - feed between 2-3% of ideal body weight. So for my boy - 18 kgs - so he gets between 360-540gms food per day (usually around 400gm)

Since my boy has been on this (almost 12 months now) - I've had no need to clean his ears and he's shown no signs of dermatitis.

Just to err on the side of caution - unless you are chopping up the chicken necks - I would not be feeding a goldie whole chicken necks due to the risk of choking. He should be eating size appropriate bones.

Just an example of what my boy gets fed...roo/wallaby tails/meat, whole chickens (not frames), whole fish (usually trout), salmon pieces, chicken hearts/giblets, quail, rabbit, lamb necks, pig hearts, wallaby hearts, lamb hearts, lamb liver/kidneys etc. I do not feed recreational bones (ie. marrow bones) as they can cause tooth damage.

Hope this helps,

Koolietas

[A-B-C]

Just an example of what my boy gets fed...roo/wallaby tails/meat, whole chickens (not frames), whole fish (usually trout), salmon pieces, chicken hearts/giblets, quail, rabbit, lamb necks, pig hearts, wallaby hearts, lamb hearts, lamb liver/kidneys etc. I do not feed recreational bones (ie. marrow bones) as they can cause tooth damage.

Koolietas where do you get all of the variety of above? I find it a challenge to find lamb necks and marrow bones half the time.

[poodlefan]

I have him on 8 chicken necks in the morning and 2 cups of raw beef(home grown) or chicken at night with some Vets All Natural Complete Mix. Then he will get some marrow bones once or twice a week. When I run out of the VAN I would like to do it all myself. I really dont wont to muck this up as I have heard some very scary stories about stuffing up with Barf.

Any help at this stage would be really appreciated.

my2boys

I'd suggest you go and buy a copy of The BARF Diet as a starting point. There are other good books on the subject but that's probably a good beginning.

If you are going the whole way with raw feeding, I'd be removing the Vets All Natural from your dog's diet ASAP. Grains are a common source of skin allergies and VAN is full of them.

For an adult dog I feed two meals of raw meaty bones and one meal of my homemade BARF mix. If you search for "Poodlefan BARF Recipe" here you'll find it but I would recommend you do some reading also.

[koolietas]

Just an example of what my boy gets fed...roo/wallaby tails/meat, whole chickens (not frames), whole fish (usually trout), salmon pieces, chicken hearts/giblets, quail, rabbit, lamb necks, pig hearts, wallaby hearts, lamb hearts, lamb liver/kidneys etc. I do not feed recreational bones (ie. marrow bones) as they can cause tooth damage.

Koolietas where do you get all of the variety of above? I find it a challenge to find lamb necks and marrow bones half the time.

Lots of places! All pretty close by - except for one place (chicken/meat wholesaler that sells direct to the public where I get the offal and whole chickens plus the salmon pieces from). Roo tails/meat & rabbits from the butcher. I can get most of what I need at the local shops so really convenient.

[Cavandra]

I started out following Billinghurst, but soon realised that they dont need fruit & veg, they are carnivores.......who get all their nutients from flesh,organs & bones ie..they do not eat the stomach contents of their kill as stated in some literature......all the rest is unneccessary, but harmless in small amounts, such as fruit & veg, table scraps......dogs are scavengers & will eat mostly anything, but just because they can eat it, doesnt mean they need it......

Additives for me are occassionally raw fruit, veg, herbs,garlic ,raw eggs, yoghurt, cottage cheese, left over brown rice, or pasta dinners Ive had, cooked pumpkin, apple cider vinegar, kelp etc.....sardines or mackeral........Grains & cereals are kept to an absolute minimum here, as skin & ears will have yeast infections/hot spots in no time otherwise !!!

[koolietas]

I started my research with the Billinghurst books - but then it was recommended to me to read Tom Lonsdale's book which I did.

I'd recommend reading a couple of different types of books about raw feeding...I was a huge Barf fan to begin with, but now wouldn't go back to feeding veg/fruit/supplements - my boy is doing much better on prey model, and it is much easier for me too.

You really need to do your own research and decide for yourself the best option for you and your dog.

[jamie]

Hi my2boys,

I too know how confusing raw feeding can be. I started my sheltie with BARF in the true sense of the word...(ie. Billinghurst) raw meat, bones, offal, fruit & veg with supplements (ACV, kelp, flaxseed meal etc). After a few months of my boy suffering from ear problems and varying degrees of dermatitis, I did much more research and decided on a prey model diet.

Prey model is based on 80% meat, 10% offal & 10% bone - no supplements other than fish oil. I do add eggs a couple of times a week. All raw. Adult dogs - feed between 2-3% of ideal body weight. So for my boy - 18 kgs - so he gets between 360-540gms food per day (usually around 400gm)

Since my boy has been on this (almost 12 months now) - I've had no need to clean his ears and he's shown no signs of dermatitis.

Just to err on the side of caution - unless you are chopping up the chicken necks - I would not be feeding a goldie whole chicken necks due to the risk of choking. He should be eating size appropriate bones.

Just an example of what my boy gets fed...roo/wallaby tails/meat, whole chickens (not frames), whole fish (usually trout), salmon pieces, chicken hearts/giblets, quail, rabbit, lamb necks, pig hearts, wallaby hearts, lamb hearts, lamb liver/kidneys etc. I do not feed recreational bones (ie. marrow bones) as they can cause tooth damage.

Hope this helps,

Koolietas

Excellent post!

My experience basically mirrors that of Koolietas,although my boy does much better with more than 10% bone.

[megan_]

I have him on 8 chicken necks in the morning and 2 cups of raw beef(home grown) or chicken at night with some Vets All Natural Complete Mix. Then he will get some marrow bones once or twice a week. When I run out of the VAN I would like to do it all myself. I really dont wont to muck this up as I have heard some very scary stories about stuffing up with Barf.

Any help at this stage would be really appreciated.

my2boys

I'd suggest you go and buy a copy of The BARF Diet as a starting point. There are other good books on the subject but that's probably a good beginning.

If you are going the whole way with raw feeding, I'd be removing the Vets All Natural from your dog's diet ASAP. Grains are a common source of skin allergies and VAN is full of them.

For an adult dog I feed two meals of raw meaty bones and one meal of my homemade BARF mix. If you search for "Poodlefan BARF Recipe" here you'll find it but I would recommend you do some reading also.

Hi Poddlefan,

I have a cop of Billinghurst's "Give a Dog a Bone" and he says that sprouted grains, which Vets All Natural is, are good for dogs as they contain a wide range of vitamins, and he actually recommends sprouted grains if you can take the time to prepare them.

[Tiggy]

I've changed from a BARF diet to a Prey-Model diet and the dogs are looking great and farting less . I also only feed fish oil and eggs as extras that's it.

[poodlefan]

Megan:

Hi Poddlefan,

I have a cop of Billinghurst's "Give a Dog a Bone" and he says that sprouted grains, which Vets All Natural is, are good for dogs as they contain a wide range of vitamins, and he actually recommends sprouted grains if you can take the time to prepare them.

Poddlefan

He's revised his views since GYDAB Megan. He now favours no grains whatsover. Sprouted grains would be a whole lot better than ordinary grain though. They are basically grasses.

[megan_]

Megan:

Hi Poddlefan,

I have a cop of Billinghurst's "Give a Dog a Bone" and he says that sprouted grains, which Vets All Natural is, are good for dogs as they contain a wide range of vitamins, and he actually recommends sprouted grains if you can take the time to prepare them.

Poddlefan

He's revised his views since GYDAB Megan. He now favours no grains whatsover. Sprouted grains would be a whole lot better than ordinary grain though. They are basically grasses.

Thanks poodlefan

[Guest june.andnovas]

I've changed from a BARF diet to a Prey-Model diet and the dogs are looking great and farting less . I also only feed fish oil and eggs as extras that's it.

I've just spent last night learning about how wolves are connected to domestic dogs and what the wolf actually eats. From what a lot of people have been saying that they eat the stomach contents, wolves don't eat the stomach contents, they will eat the stomach but leave the digested food near the kill, that is for large prey. They eat the whole kill say for a rabbit, stomach and all and it's too small to remove. Which that would normally just include grasses.

I'm starting a model prey diet for Ivy. She's my black wolf, even looks like one!

[Jed]

Anyone who is contemplating BARF ought to buy Ian Billinghurst's books - or one of them, at least. Give A Dog A Bone is a good place to begin.

[MonElite]

I use VAN about twice a week. Soaked for at least 24 hours before feeding.

I probably wouldnt use it that often with a younger dog, but I find that my old boy gets too constipated with the amont of bones and meat he was able to eat when he was younger.

I need to add some roughage in his diet, and it can be vegies or VAN.

BARF isnt difficult, just takes a bit of practice at first and watching our dogs poo to see if its too loose or to hard.

It definitelly will be harder than on dried food.

[rose of tralee]

A prey model supporter here. A large Yahoo group is a another resource for questions.

my2boys, some pointers as to where you live as regards difficulty in sourcing variety?

cheers

Rose

[vk2mpj]

I have just made up a few batches mixed of hearts, liver and chicken necks. This will be my 2's breakky each morning, is there anything I could add? Kidney etc..

[laffi]

I have just made up a few batches mixed of hearts, liver and chicken necks. This will be my 2's breakky each morning, is there anything I could add? Kidney etc..

You want your diet to be based on raw meaty bones, not organs (liver or kidneys).

[vk2mpj]

So if I mix the above with a heap of chicken pet mince (ground up frames) that should be good?

I also feed frames every other day...

[rose of tralee]

Whole frames a whole different animal from the ground variety. You can add a meat to frames to approximate the %age of bone that might be found naturally. Generally, 10-15% of the diet all the organs that are required (liver should be part of this proportion; heart is treated as a meat, albeit a rich one)