Kelpie_Pup Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) Our 11 month old Kelpie has neeeeeeeeeever done this before. She has just spent the last 6 weeks with some relatives-as we have been overseas- and as if all the other issues encountered so far aren't enough (she has spent the last 6 weeks locked in a backyard on her own).. I went to feed her this morning, gave her the ok to eat, went to pat her head, and she literally turned on me! I jumped back and she LURCHED at me, growling and snapping her teeth. This has always been her feeding routine. Since the day we brought her home 9 months ago, we have always done this. We could come and go, patting her as we please.. she always just continued eating. She has never had a problem with it before. But this morning she REALLY frightened me. My partner then came out and did the same thing.. no response from her. She just stopped eating and sat there and enjoyed the head rub. We took her food away and started again 10 mins later. I patted her head again and she did the same thing again to me!! The last 6 weeks, she has not only spent most of the time outside without much human contact, but also with another dog...a 5 year old Kelpie. They get along quite well and I was told they were always fed seperately so as not to cause issues between them and their eating. Firstly, WHY do you think she is doing this?? WHAT could have happened? Is it because she has been left on her own to eat for the last 6 weeks? Secondly, HOW can we remedy it?? We have never seen this kind of aggression in her before and it really upset me this morning to see her like that. She is always-this morning aside- a very friendly, social little dog who loves human contact. Some people may not mind if their dogs do this, and thats fine, but I see this as a big problem. This has me worried ;) Edited November 9, 2008 by Kelpie_Pup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fainty_girl Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I'm a big fan of 'the dog whisperer' Cesar Millan, so here is advice from his website: "Dogs become aggressive out of frustration and dominance. The frustration comes from a lack of exercise, and the dominance comes from a lack of calm-assertive leadership. When dealing with red zone dogs, I start by working with the owners, explaining how to establish themselves as pack leaders and to understand the animal in their dog. This is a crucial part of rehabilitating your dog: changing your behavior. If you revert to your old ways, so will your dog. For many of these dogs, it is a lack of adequate exercise that is the root of the problem. Physical activity burns the dog’s excess energy and helps maintain his healthy state of mind. This is important because, in order to talk to the mind, you need to remove the energy from the body. If you live with an aggressive dog, I urge you to find a professional dog trainer to work with you and your dog. Most cases can be rehabilitated with time and dedication, and we owe it to our dogs to try". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Hard to know why is happened- maybe the dogs were fed together and there was a dispute? Resource guarding can be complex and there are usually a few steps involved in resolving such an issue. What does the pup get fed? Did it change while you were away? Regardless of why, the important thing now IMO is that you get some assistance from a trainer experienced with such issues. Given that it has only just begun, if you get onto it immediately- it will be easier than if you wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBen Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Could you try and feed her meals by hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILK Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 That would be very distressing for you ... Let us know how you go with it.... Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nillasdad Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I bet some Ceasar type leash walking exercise to establish pack leadership again is all that needed here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Sorry, not sure how leash walking is supposed to fix resource guarding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nillasdad Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) Sorry, not sure how leash walking is supposed to fix resource guarding? ...the resource guarding will fall back into place once leadership is re-established, which as you should know is easily done with his type leash walking... Edited November 10, 2008 by seagate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Actually have not heard of resource guarding being fixed by walking on leash . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nillasdad Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Fixing up leadership issues will help with the resource guarding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Since it only just started, something may have happened while they were away to start the problem? Or dog was approached differently this time? Agree with Cosmolo re having an experienced person come and have a look. Not sure Cesar Milan has the answer for everything - certainly not without seeing the dog first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nillasdad Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Not sure Cesar Milan has the answer for everything... Never said he does, but it certainly won't hurt here whilst Kelpie_Pup is waiting for an appointment with a professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie_Pup Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) Thankyou everyone for your advice. I suspect this is a dominance issue. She is walked on a leash daily-by both of us-a one hour return trip to the park-as well as some games/training in the yard, so I don't feel that exercise is an issue. She has growled once at me before -about 5 months ago-when I approached her bed and she was almost asleep, but a loud growl back from me stopped that very quickly. She clearly sees my partner as the boss.. I obviously need to learn how to behave with her so that she understands she isn't up the top of the pack above me. I guess I just don't know how... We live in a rural area and I don't think there are many, if any, professional trainers / obedience experts in the vicinity. Does anyone know of a reputable, qualified professional that would be near the western side of the Blue Mountains in Syd? I was hoping to avoid this but I certainly don't want thisto continue, or get even worse. We love our dog dearly but we also understand that it requires effort to establish and maintain a healthy relationship between us all. Perhaps I am a bit "soft" with her Problem is, I also only see her about 2 days a week atm. I'm really going to have to step up my game ( No, I'm not one of those people who blames their dog's behaviour on their dog! ) Edited November 10, 2008 by Kelpie_Pup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Lead walking alone will not establish leadership, nor resolve resource guarding- Kelpie pup, i don't know of someone near you but hopefully another DOLer will. If there is no one nearby- send me an email and i'll see if i can at least send you some information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Maybe your partner can help in watching the way you approach things in relation to what he does. Whilst leadership is important the way one approaches a dog or there simple body language can create all sorts of mixed messages to a dog that certainly feels it holds more power than you. I say go back to basics & rebuild you order in the household. The thing is 2 days a week doesnt make any difference ,a dog that respects that human will do so if its only seen once a month. For example i handle dogs in the ring,some i may see once in a blue moon but communication & handling & treating the dog with total respect gains so much reward. Dont think you need to compensate for the lack of time it wont make the dog love you more,infact you simply confuse them with whats expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 Sorry, not sure how leash walking is supposed to fix resource guarding? LOL Kavik I actually thought that the loose leash was a joke I am so over Cesar Milan BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 (edited) I might suggest that your dog, having moved home for a period and then returning (and taking into account also his age) has caused an upset in the hierarchy balance (whatever that balance might have comprised of in the first place). Maybe there were signs of this before you left. Or perhaps there weren't. But I'd suggest that his recent change of abode might have affected that enough to either alter it or tip it further - his way. I agree with suggestions of checking your leadership. Training is one aspect of that. But there are other interactions that occur around the home on a day to day basis - it is what you do and how you go about doing it that is what dogs 'read' from. Because aggression has been exhibited I can't help but recommend you get in the help of a professional for this. Sooner rather than later makes things easier to sort through (for the trainer/behaviourist as well as for the dog and ultimately for you). Hierarchy needs to be checked and if necessary, adjusted first and foremost. If resource guarding remains an issue there are additional things that need to be done as well, for that. Edited November 11, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 (edited) Does anyone know of a reputable, qualified professional that would be near the western side of the Blue Mountains in Syd? Wow, how scary for you (not that a pup is scary at all, but the prospect of her exhibiting aggression to you & others when she grows up is terrifying) You definitely need to seek help, if you let it go & she attacks someone when she's full grown someone could be really hurt. There's an amazing dog behaviourist in the Blue Mountains - Steve Courtenay of K9Force Send him an email detailing your problem Here's his website: http://www.k9force.net/ Edited November 11, 2008 by Wobbly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 its amazing to see how dogs react differently to different people. Even here in my home,i can come and go with ease out of my font door. My SIL on the other hand cant manage even that task. She tries talking to the dogs the rambles on about 100000 things at once to them then they get sooo worked up she starts freaking out and gets frustrated. I walk in and out,as I approach the door,yell "BACK" and they will all sit and wait no problem. You have to TELL the dog what to do,not ask it. I can stop Indie from running in the back door even at zoomie time,and she goes CRAZY with Zoomies lol,but all I have to do is raise my finger and she knows that means to stop. I guess what Im trying to say,i that sometimes people are too "nice",and forgiving. I NEVER use physical punishments on my dog. I say you go back to basics wih the triangle of temptation,and at any given oppotunity,assert your dominance! THEN speak to a behavourist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 (edited) The FIRST thing I'd want to know is exactly what were the feeding arrangements at the other place? Was this youngster suddenly subjected to competition for food? Has it learned that food is to be defended or lost? Were meal times stressful for it? You need a professionally developed strategy to deal with this and perhaps a phone consultation might be a way to start - there are some good people in Sydney who might be able to get things going if you have difficulty getting a house call. In the meantime, all I can suggest is that you de-escalate any anxiety at meal times. You could start NILIF/TOT and reward the puppy for focussing on you in that way. As for leash walking resolving resource guarding - to the best of my knowledge, that would be a first. Not every issue a dog has relates to dominance or poor leadership - some genetic predispositions can be developed by environment/experience. ANY form of aggression needs professional intervention IMO. Edited November 11, 2008 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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