Need To Update List Dogs That Kill In Aust

[geo]

Firstly, I have no emotion, not dislike nor affection, for the APBT. It is not a breed that holds any attraction for me.

Having said that, you really need to do more research on the BSL before launching on your quest.

Our species, as a whole(not race) does have a lot to answer for, but the BSL is is not one of them.

The BSL is entirely the fault of pitbull owners.

The BSL weasn't dropped on the breed overnight. It was years in the making.

APBT owners were given more than one chance to get their act into gear. They failed, actually I'm not sure if one can fail without one even trying, but they did fail their breed. Badly.

The restrictions were gradual & applied because of almost weekly reports of attacks upon humans, mostly kids. As a result the APBT, while restricted in public, were still allowed to owned, bred, sold, traded, exchanged, given away, just as any other breed.

The attacks continued virtually unabated, until finally a very scared public said enough is enough & demanded protection, the pollies seized on the opportunity for brownie points & effectively banned the breed. I speak of NSW btw.

Besides stringent requirements for housing, the dogs were required to be sterilised. they were not to be bred from (obviously) & they weren't to be sold, traded, given away.

So were are all the pitties coming form now?

Just as they didn't take the tip at the begining, when there was still a chance for them, the owners of the breed are totally disregarding the BSL laws & relying on deception to maintain the breed in a black market.

Who would want the breed? Use your imagination .

Which is where I came in. (And probably TheCoat. but I only speak for myself)

My breed, a registered, recognised pure breed that has build a reputation as one of the most reliable people dogs on the planet is suffering extraordinarily because of the deception.

My breed has has come from nowhere to top of bite stats since the introduction of the BSL while the pitty has gone from the top to the bottom.

Do you see the connection here? Blind Freddie could.

You claim love & affection for a breed you have no real connection to, don't own, haven't owned & I fear for the future of my breed because of a breed it has no connection with.

Maybe you are right after all..

Our species, some of them anyhow, do have a lot to answer for.

So your breed has no connection withe the APBT? nothing? is that what you're saying?...... To the general public they think they're the same. Same "type" many say...weekly reports were always unsubstantiated.. America was different they were having attacks but the demographic there is completely different, but no weekly attacks here, not the UK either as I grew up there.. Unless you count the numerous claims made by the media that any attack must've been by a pitbull.

Yes they were represented in dog attacks but not highly. it was purely the fact the once fighting breed was now a family pet and the unscroupulous people were again using them for their own sick games..

They mistreated these dogs then didn't contain them.

Your paper clip, only mentions registered staffs, You think that the type of people owning and mistreating dogs were likely to belong to a breed club.. hmmmmm let me think.

You think all of the recorded staffy attacks are being perpetrated by pitbulls? you must be kidding, we all know the SBT's are one of the most BYB dogs in the country.

You should be joining against BSL, not bagging genuine dog lovers who dedicate their time to educate people about responsible ownership, which applies to all dog breeds.

[bulldogz4eva]

"Id rather die on my feet, than live on my knees"

Viva Zapata.

If you stategy isn't to muddy the waters by including other breeds, what is this thread all about then?

Why list other breeds without any question as to the authenticity of the breed when you deny every report of a so called pitbull ''incident'', even when there is definate photographic identification?

Your are on your feet alright ricey, pointing, from the shadows.

You may find the attachment of some interest.

From a 2008 publication.

The purpose of the htread was to document fatal attacks in this country nothing more nothing less although you want it to be something else.I dont deny every pitbull incident what I claim is what is true that no Purebred American Pitbull Terrier has been responsible for a single fatality in this country.Im sorry if the facts hurt you but I cant change them for your 'convenient truth'.

Gary I am not Ricey I have posted under the same handle for the last 7 years but I sense you know that already.I know you miss him and maybe he will come back for a chat.

Edited November 16, 2011 by bulldogz4eva

[bulldogz4eva]

Not recognised by any purebred registry?

Only being recognised by their own membership doesn't count.

Open a registry for ""pure breed" Cavoodles & you will have exactly the same scenario to the establishment of the UKC.

i.e. A club to register dogs that aren't recognised as pure breeds by the countries pure breed registery.

A claytons pure breed registry.

Dogs solely registered by the UKC/ADBA aren't recognised as genuine recognised pure breeds any more than their registery is recognised as a genuine pure breed registry.

Both of those registries are all breed registries not solely APBT registries.There are a lot of other breeds with more checkered pasts that are registered with yours but this ois old ground we have been over it a million times before but you only like to hear the sound of your own voice.

[bulldogz4eva]

Not recognised by any purebred registry?

Only being recognised by their own membership doesn't count.

Open a registry for ""pure breed" Cavoodles & you will have exactly the same scenario to the establishment of the UKC.

i.e. A club to register dogs that aren't recognised as pure breeds by the countries pure breed registery.

A claytons pure breed registry.

Dogs solely registered by the UKC/ADBA aren't recognised as genuine recognised pure breeds any more than their registery is recognised as a genuine pure breed registry.

Maybe to you they are not recognised as genuine purebreds. But 113 years of purebred registry says differently. If someone opened a Cavoodle registry I would be happy to tell them their dogs are now purebred when they had been breeding and registering them for 113 years, oh and if they changed the darn name to something a little more sensible.

Also you may want to go back to the start of the thread and have a look it was started over 3 years ago, why have you and TheCoat dredged up such an old thread?

The thread was originally created by someone who was and still is helping people fight the Council's here in QLD against their draconian laws and fighting council's illegal seizure and euthanasia of many innocent dogs.

I may be wrong, but it appears the thread was reopened by the original poster (Chivers solicitor?) or an associate there of.

To what end?

One can only assume to continue the blame switching charade.

And winning I might add.

Do you think so? Really?

The litigant in Chivers V GCCC introduced her own expert witness' testimony which, much to everyones shock/horror, stated Am Staffs & APBT's were the same breed, effectively destroying her own case.

IMO, & this is purely conjecture on my part, the council heard the combined groan of every Am Staff owner in the world, not just in Australia or Qld, for a legal precedent about to be laid down.

Realising the pandoras box that was opening, they withdrew.

The case was not won, nor is it really finalised.

The Qld government then enacted legislation declaring ANKC registered Am Staffs are not a restricted breed.

Please note ANKC registered.

Nothing else has changed.

The fat lady hasn't sung just yet.

BSL is still law.

Non ANKC registered Am Staffs are still pitties as far as the BSL is concerned.

BTW, pure breeds & registered recognised pure breeds are miles apart.

One being pretty much a local thing of no real consequence except to those involved, the other internationally acknowledged by every genuine pure breed registry.

cavoodles? pure breeds? Start a pure breed registry. They still wont be recognised as pure breeds outside that registry.

Chauncey said Bennetts Ring was a pure breed, 113 years on & still the AKC doesn't agree with him.

That has to tell you something?

Blah Blah Blah same tired old story Gary.Take the record off its worn a groove.they never wanted AKC recognition so never sought it so they dont care what the AKC thinks only you do.You realy need to get outside that bubble that you live in.

[bulldogz4eva]

Not recognised by any purebred registry?

Only being recognised by their own membership doesn't count.

Open a registry for ""pure breed" Cavoodles & you will have exactly the same scenario to the establishment of the UKC.

i.e. A club to register dogs that aren't recognised as pure breeds by the countries pure breed registery.

A claytons pure breed registry.

Dogs solely registered by the UKC/ADBA aren't recognised as genuine recognised pure breeds any more than their registery is recognised as a genuine pure breed registry.

Maybe to you they are not recognised as genuine purebreds. But 113 years of purebred registry says differently. If someone opened a Cavoodle registry I would be happy to tell them their dogs are now purebred when they had been breeding and registering them for 113 years, oh and if they changed the darn name to something a little more sensible.

Also you may want to go back to the start of the thread and have a look it was started over 3 years ago, why have you and TheCoat dredged up such an old thread?

The thread was originally created by someone who was and still is helping people fight the Council's here in QLD against their draconian laws and fighting council's illegal seizure and euthanasia of many innocent dogs.

I may be wrong, but it appears the thread was reopened by the original poster (Chivers solicitor?) or an associate there of.

To what end?

One can only assume to continue the blame switching charade.

And winning I might add.

Do you think so? Really?

The litigant in Chivers V GCCC introduced her own expert witness' testimony which, much to everyones shock/horror, stated Am Staffs & APBT's were the same breed, effectively destroying her own case.

IMO, & this is purely conjecture on my part, the council heard the combined groan of every Am Staff owner in the world, not just in Australia or Qld, for a legal precedent about to be laid down.

Realising the pandoras box that was opening, they withdrew.

The case was not won, nor is it really finalised.

The Qld government then enacted legislation declaring ANKC registered Am Staffs are not a restricted breed.

Please note ANKC registered.

Nothing else has changed.

The fat lady hasn't sung just yet.

BSL is still law.

Non ANKC registered Am Staffs are still pitties as far as the BSL is concerned.

BTW, pure breeds & registered recognised pure breeds are miles apart.

One being pretty much a local thing of no real consequence except to those involved, the other internationally acknowledged by every genuine pure breed registry.

cavoodles? pure breeds? Start a pure breed registry. They still wont be recognised as pure breeds outside that registry.

Chauncey said Bennetts Ring was a pure breed, 113 years on & still the AKC doesn't agree with him.

That has to tell you something?

I suggest you take another look at the Chivers vs GCCC case or stop talking about what you don't know. At this stage Tango is home, that in my books is a win maybe not the war but certainly a battle, second it was not Chivers who bought in the expert who claimed APBT and Amstaff were the same, that was a tactic used by the GCCC to try and win the case, they gave no notice and sprung this tactic on the court the day of the hearing. QLD Legislation was ammended not long after, the legislation now states :-

63A Provisions for deciding what is a breed of dog

(1) Each of the following certificates, for a dog, is evidence the

dog is of the breed stated in the certificate—

(a) a pedigree certificate from the Australian National

Kennel Council;

(b) a pedigree certificate from a member body of the

Australian National Kennel Council;

© a pedigree certificate from a national breed council

registered with the Australian National Kennel Council;

(d) a certificate signed by a veterinary surgeon stating, or to

the effect, that the dog is of a particular breed.

(2) However, if a dog is of the breed American Staffordshire

terrier it is not of the breed American pit bull terrier.

(3) Also, the breed American pit bull terrier does not include a

dog of the breed American Staffordshire terrier.

So no the dog does not have to be ANKC registered.

2ndly

63 What is a restricted dog

(1) A restricted dog is a dog of a breed prohibited from

importation into Australia under the Customs Act 1901

(Cwlth).

Note—

See the Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations 1956 (Cwlth),

section 3 and schedule 1 (Goods the importation of which is prohibited

absolutely).

(2) Also, a dog is a restricted dog if it is the subject of a restricted

dog declaration.

(3) In this section—

breed, of a dog, does not include a crossbreed of a breed.

This clearly states in part (3) that a breed of dog does not include a crossbreed. Seeing as we don't have an American Pitbull Terrier purebred registry and they are not a recognised breed in Australia (by ANKC or any affiliates) they are technically a crossbreed only and therefore are not prohibited by Qld Legislation. Any one who has their dog seized in QLD should know this ^^^ and fight because according to Australia there is no such breed as the APBT, QLD law states crossbreeds don't come under the prohibited laws so how are unrocognised crossbreeds being seized?

Actually someone accidentally re-opened the thread in August, someone updated the list, as far as I can see not someone who is at all involved with the Chivers case (why would they?). No one is blaming breeds, as it has already been stated the majority of dogs involved in attacks on this list are Xbreeds only. Why is it ok for everyone else to lay blame on APBT but when we point out attacks by other breeds or Xbreeds we are in the wrong? How come you are attacking us for this list and telling us to give up the fight rather than asking WHY there are so many attacks by other breeds and crossbreeds? Pitbull haters are so blinded by their hate that they refuse to see the big picture and to ask the real questions like WHY other breeds are involved in attacks, why are other breeds (or Xbreeds) involved in more attacks in Australia then PBx's? Open your eyes, pull your head out of the sand and start looking at the truth.

Dont worry he is only here to bait and try and incite people and turn arguments around to try to make people look bad in the eyes of others.His idea of sport but he isnt as smart as he thinks he is.

[bulldogz4eva]

Chivers introduced the expert witness, not the GCCC. What ever, it was accepted as ''expert evidence.

Try the "it's not an APBT it's an unpapered AST'' ploy & see how you get on? Hammered is how.

Talk about head in the stand.

Do you really believe the APBT is ''restricted'' simply because of the way it looks? In many parts the world? including great swathes of it's country of origin? Get real!

Do you consider ''restricted'' applies to the breed or to the keeping of the breed? Both?

Do you have the breed?

If so,

Do you keep it/them as required by the legislation or do you practice civil disobedience as many/most/all owners obviously do?

If you want support, you have to not only do the right thing, you have to be seen to be doing the right thing.

So far, no see.

Trying to shift the blame aint going to cut it.

Stop whinging that the breeds you are pointing at are pointing back.

"You"caused your own problem. Nobody else.

Stand up & be counted if you are so passionate. Step out of the shadows.

You talk the talk, let's see you walk the walk.

You love to gloss over things when your wrong dont you.Just like over the years you have conveniently dodged the hard questions asked of you.You like to give it but you dont like to take it.I walk the walk everyday clown with my dog by my side.

Edited November 16, 2011 by bulldogz4eva

[bulldogz4eva]

Chrissie,

I doubt very much if such a case could ever be fought & won by claiming seperation between the AST & the APBT for one very good reason.

At that time the UKC, the APBTs main register, was accepting AKC registered ASTs onto their register as pure bred APBTs.

That's game over.

IMO, the GCCC should get some accolades for withdrawing, with the case all but won, before a final decision & a precedent set declaring ASTs to be APBTs.

Imagine the ramifications for the AST of such a precedent.

Keira,

Firstly, I have no emotion, not dislike nor affection, for the APBT. It is not a breed that holds any attraction for me.

Having said that, you really need to do more research on the BSL before launching on your quest.

Our species, as a whole(not race) does have a lot to answer for, but the BSL is is not one of them.

The BSL is entirely the fault of pitbull owners.

The BSL weasn't dropped on the breed overnight. It was years in the making.

APBT owners were given more than one chance to get their act into gear. They failed, actually I'm not sure if one can fail without one even trying, but they did fail their breed. Badly.

The restrictions were gradual & applied because of almost weekly reports of attacks upon humans, mostly kids. As a result the APBT, while restricted in public, were still allowed to owned, bred, sold, traded, exchanged, given away, just as any other breed.

The attacks continued virtually unabated, until finally a very scared public said enough is enough & demanded protection, the pollies seized on the opportunity for brownie points & effectively banned the breed. I speak of NSW btw.

Besides stringent requirements for housing, the dogs were required to be sterilised. they were not to be bred from (obviously) & they weren't to be sold, traded, given away.

So were are all the pitties coming form now?

Just as they didn't take the tip at the begining, when there was still a chance for them, the owners of the breed are totally disregarding the BSL laws & relying on deception to maintain the breed in a black market.

Who would want the breed? Use your imagination .

Which is where I came in. (And probably TheCoat. but I only speak for myself)

My breed, a registered, recognised pure breed that has build a reputation as one of the most reliable people dogs on the planet is suffering extraordinarily because of the deception.

My breed has has come from nowhere to top of bite stats since the introduction of the BSL while the pitty has gone from the top to the bottom.

Do you see the connection here? Blind Freddie could.

You claim love & affection for a breed you have no real connection to, don't own, haven't owned & I fear for the future of my breed because of a breed it has no connection with.

Maybe you are right after all..

Our species, some of them anyhow, do have a lot to answer for.

Sorry Dougie but bsl was dropped on this country overnight for no good reason other than we are a Commonwealth country then year by year it was inched in.Im not gonna rant over old posts but I can speak gfor my state and thaey could not provide evidence or statistics and never would nor would they answer questions take calls or talk on the subject,so what does that say.

You have little to worry about you beloved 'show' staffords these days resemble a british bulldog or an overgrown frog so there isnt much chance they would be mistaken for an APBT.LMAO

[stone]

Not recognised by any purebred registry?

Only being recognised by their own membership doesn't count.

Open a registry for ""pure breed" Cavoodles & you will have exactly the same scenario to the establishment of the UKC.

i.e. A club to register dogs that aren't recognised as pure breeds by the countries pure breed registery.

A claytons pure breed registry.

Dogs solely registered by the UKC/ADBA aren't recognised as genuine recognised pure breeds any more than their registery is recognised as a genuine pure breed registry.

Both of those registries are all breed registries not solely APBT registries.There are a lot of other breeds with more checkered pasts that are registered with yours but this ois old ground we have been over it a million times before but you only like to hear the sound of your own voice.

Your truth is not the real truth. Just saying it doesn't make it so.

One truth is the UKC accepts any "breed" onto its registry, just apply, you're in.

Another is the APBT is not recognised as pure breed outside its own registry. Sans ADBA

But even the ADBA has a different perspective of what is a ''genuine'' APBT.

Think cavoodle & you have it. Consistency makes a genuine pure breed. A different ''type'' on every corner doesn't cut the mustard.

You are in a constant state of denial, tub thumping your unsubstantiatable opinions to the naive.

Like I said earlier, if you really are on your feet, step out the shadows & be seen to walk the walk. Talking the talk is only half the job.

The most despised & feared dog on the planet needs more than hyperbole shouted from the temporary safety behind other breeds to put it's case. I say temporary safety because ''you'' are making it so.

The breed had it's chances &, in a typical display of arrogance, the warnings were ignored.

The BSL is on ''your'' head, ''you'' deal with it. Aim up.

Leave genuine recognised pure breeds out of stategy of deception.

Anyhow, this a BSL forum, for the discussion of the BSL, not a pitbull appreciation society.

Not everyone disgrees with the BSL, as a matter of fact, most people agree with the legislation.

And not everyone cares for the APBT. Most don't even want them in society in fact.

Sooner or later the pennies will drop & you will finally realise the more you masquarade your breed as others the more you are alienating former allies.

You, & those like you, aren't the solution, you are the problem.

[Keira&Phoenix]

Bulldogz - I know what he is doing, I have encountered him (under names such as Dougie) and others like him on other forums, I don't know why I bother replying to be honest except that I dislike the misinformation that he is spreading on a public forum. I guess that my goal in replying to him is to get the truth out so that people who come here and read this thread don't only have his biased, breedist BS to read. Most of what he says is completely vague and makes no sense, he writes exactly the same everywhere he goes and uses false information to try and prove his point.

This is a public forum, this particular sub-forum is for discussions on BSL. Seeing as in this Country the dog most affected by BSL is the Pitbull I believe we are well and truly within our rights to discuss them here and to point out the failure that is BSL.

Pull your head in Stone, your breed is involved in attacks as well, but you will deny that and claim they are PB's "in disguise", so once again it is ok for YOU to make our breed a scapegoat hey "quick its been reported as an SBT lets say it isn't an SBT but in fact a Pitbull being called by another name and take the focus off ourselves". If your breed was so removed from ours then it wouldn't be so hard to tell the difference or for the dodgy owners to pass the breeds off as each other.

You keep pushing the APBT isn't a purebred line and yet you are still calling for their extermination....how do you intend on exterminating a breed that doesn't exist? That is essentially according to you just a crossbreed? To me the only way to exterminate a crossbreed is exactly what the Vic Government are doing, kill any dog that looks vaguely like a "pitbull type" does, that will eventually include your breed & Amstaff's as well as crosses of dogs that don't have a slither of any of those breeds in them. And in the end they will still find themselves dealing with attacks because exterminating one breed or type will not stop the other breeds from being mistreated, abused, under trained and under socialised.

Edited November 16, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[stone]

Sorry Dougie but bsl was dropped on this country overnight for no good reason other than we are a Commonwealth country then year by year it was inched in.

That statement confirms to me my long held suspicions regarding your total lack of knowledge (or honesty) regarding the entire topic.

You need to get out more into the real world of real dogs & stop living out your fantasies on the net.

Reinterate!

People like you are the problem, not the solution.

Edited November 16, 2011 by stone

[Keira&Phoenix]

Sorry Dougie but bsl was dropped on this country overnight for no good reason other than we are a Commonwealth country then year by year it was inched in.

That statement confirms to me my long held suspicions regarding your total lack of knowledge (or honesty) regarding the entire topic.

You need to get out more into the real world of real dogs & stop living out your fantasies on the net.

Reinterate!

People like you are the problem, not the solution.

This is the attack that started BSL in Australia. This attack was incorrectly reported as a PitBull Terrier rather than as Bull Terrier X attack and that is when the importation laws came into place. So OUR breed copped it for another.

"Sep 15 1991 North Richmond Bull Terrier cross 55 Km North West of Sydney 2 month old boy mauled to death by a Bull Terrier cross"

Dougie, Stone whatever you prefer to go by. Look into BSL in other countries it has been repealed in the Netherlands, the UK is well on there way to repealing the law because both of these counties have had BSL, it hasn't worked, dog attacks have increased not decreased. Australia is behind the times. Seriously do we still live in the 1800's? Witch hunts were popular back then too. Lets move out of the dark ages.

[stone]

the BSL isn't the issue that concerns me.

I have always been anti BSL.

It's the deception employed when ever a pitbull incident occurs that is the concern to me & many others with breeds directly affected by the deceptions.

the example you quote i.ds a bull terrier X, who i.ded the dog?

The owner did? Well, go on.

And it is accepted by you, & others like you, as irrefutable without really knowing if it is true or not.

If it really was a xbully & that was the catalyst for the BSL, why isn't the bull terrier a restricted breed?

Why? Be honest with yourself.

The best thing that could happen for the breeds favoured in the deceptions would be the repeal of the BSL legislation, if honesty is then applied of course. Which is highly doubtful.

But if.....watch the stats for the xstaffy, xridgey, xamstaff, xbluey, xlab & assorted other X's of various pure breeds drop dramatically.

Oh, not to forget the xmastiffs of course.

There would be no reason for this forum, & it would be the end of the deny & discredit ploy employed everytime a silver bullet of truth/fact is fired through the smokescreen of deception.

And I would be really happy for Chrissie Tybrax, the only the breed stalwart here really walking the walk & displaying any class, ethics & honesty.

She is probably the only poster here who actually owns APBTs & has as much to lose as the owners of all the pure breeds so shamefully discredited by the imposters.

Those with nothing to lose really don't have a lot of cred in the debate. Poseurs, one & all.

Don't delude yourself, the BSL will never be repealed as long as those involved display the irresponsiblity that currently blights the breed.

Fat chance of that.IMO

bTW, APBTs are a banned import.....but of course you knew that.

That hasn't stopped the importation though. Deception is a cottage industry as far as this breed is concerned.

BTW,

Any variations to the DD legislation in the U.K is still to have a list of restricted breeds.

Of which the APBT is numero uno.

#1 on the hit parade.

Fact, as usual.

[bulldogz4eva]

Sorry Dougie but bsl was dropped on this country overnight for no good reason other than we are a Commonwealth country then year by year it was inched in.

That statement confirms to me my long held suspicions regarding your total lack of knowledge (or honesty) regarding the entire topic.

You need to get out more into the real world of real dogs & stop living out your fantasies on the net.

Reinterate!

People like you are the problem, not the solution.

What I am talking about is the commonwealth import ban which is where it started or is this not bsl to you?I have lived through bsl longer than you have had staffords so stop talking shite.I am not the problem you are.

[bulldogz4eva]

the BSL isn't the issue that concerns me.

I have always been anti BSL.

It's the deception employed when ever a pitbull incident occurs that is the concern to me & many others with breeds directly affected by the deceptions.

the example you quote i.ds a bull terrier X, who i.ded the dog?

The owner did? Well, go on.

And it is accepted by you, & others like you, as irrefutable without really knowing if it is true or not.

If it really was a xbully & that was the catalyst for the BSL, why isn't the bull terrier a restricted breed?

Why? Be honest with yourself.

The best thing that could happen for the breeds favoured in the deceptions would be the repeal of the BSL legislation, if honesty is then applied of course. Which is highly doubtful.

But if.....watch the stats for the xstaffy, xridgey, xamstaff, xbluey, xlab & assorted other X's of various pure breeds drop dramatically.

Oh, not to forget the xmastiffs of course.

There would be no reason for this forum, & it would be the end of the deny & discredit ploy employed everytime a silver bullet of truth/fact is fired through the smokescreen of deception.

And I would be really happy for Chrissie Tybrax, the only the breed stalwart here really walking the walk & displaying any class, ethics & honesty.

She is probably the only poster here who actually owns APBTs & has as much to lose as the owners of all the pure breeds so shamefully discredited by the imposters.

Those with nothing to lose really don't have a lot of cred in the debate. Poseurs, one & all.

Don't delude yourself, the BSL will never be repealed as long as those involved display the irresponsiblity that currently blights the breed.

Fat chance of that.IMO

bTW, APBTs are a banned import.....but of course you knew that.

That hasn't stopped the importation though. Deception is a cottage industry as far as this breed is concerned.

BTW,

Any variations to the DD legislation in the U.K is still to have a list of restricted breeds.

Of which the APBT is numero uno.

#1 on the hit parade.

Fact, as usual.

You already know why the bull terrier is not restricted.Its becuase it is an ANKC registered breed so stop asking loaded questions.You are the biggest hypocrite here you employ the same tactics you accuse others of which is the id of breed.Every cross breed must be a purebred pitbull becuase all owners are liars to you.Easy fix there post a picture of every dog after the incident,but they never do,do they?

You expect honesty?You expect people to give up their dogs to an unjust law and when there is none left the government will say ok you have all been very good we will now repeal the law.Dream on Gary.You cant have it both ways.We arent giving them up and we arent going away so deal with it.The people that are actually smart enough to sign up and use a computer arent the problem.The problem is out there in the suburbs and if the powers that be havent cleaned it up yet in the last decade I doubt they ever will.

I have owned pits for 20 years so I am afraid the only pretender here is you and I doubt you even know what one looks like.Keep dreaming and posting in your internet fantasy land and I will keep on with my dogs in the real world.

Edited November 17, 2011 by bulldogz4eva

[bulldogz4eva]

Not recognised by any purebred registry?

Only being recognised by their own membership doesn't count.

Open a registry for ""pure breed" Cavoodles & you will have exactly the same scenario to the establishment of the UKC.

i.e. A club to register dogs that aren't recognised as pure breeds by the countries pure breed registery.

A claytons pure breed registry.

Dogs solely registered by the UKC/ADBA aren't recognised as genuine recognised pure breeds any more than their registery is recognised as a genuine pure breed registry.

Both of those registries are all breed registries not solely APBT registries.There are a lot of other breeds with more checkered pasts that are registered with yours but this ois old ground we have been over it a million times before but you only like to hear the sound of your own voice.

Your truth is not the real truth. Just saying it doesn't make it so.

One truth is the UKC accepts any "breed" onto its registry, just apply, you're in.

Another is the APBT is not recognised as pure breed outside its own registry. Sans ADBA

But even the ADBA has a different perspective of what is a ''genuine'' APBT.

Think cavoodle & you have it. Consistency makes a genuine pure breed. A different ''type'' on every corner doesn't cut the mustard.

You are in a constant state of denial, tub thumping your unsubstantiatable opinions to the naive.

Like I said earlier, if you really are on your feet, step out the shadows & be seen to walk the walk. Talking the talk is only half the job.

The most despised & feared dog on the planet needs more than hyperbole shouted from the temporary safety behind other breeds to put it's case. I say temporary safety because ''you'' are making it so.

The breed had it's chances &, in a typical display of arrogance, the warnings were ignored.

The BSL is on ''your'' head, ''you'' deal with it. Aim up.

Leave genuine recognised pure breeds out of stategy of deception.

Anyhow, this a BSL forum, for the discussion of the BSL, not a pitbull appreciation society.

Not everyone disgrees with the BSL, as a matter of fact, most people agree with the legislation.

And not everyone cares for the APBT. Most don't even want them in society in fact.

Sooner or later the pennies will drop & you will finally realise the more you masquarade your breed as others the more you are alienating former allies.

You, & those like you, aren't the solution, you are the problem.

Sorry champ but Im not the one in denial.How do you know what I do outside of this forum or what I have done for the breed Gary.Just becuase I dont care to know you.I know who you are I just dont care for your opinion.I am not an internet expert like some I have actually owned the dogs over a long period of time but of course to you thats just unsubstantiated.I know enough people here that know me in real life to know thats true I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else.I am just here to tell it like it is.

We dont need to hide behind other breeds.The government made the law if they didnt ban amstaffs and staffords that is not my problem.It is the ANKC problem when the time comes and there safety net fails.BSl is not on my head as I never caused it and my dogs have never come up on the radar so I cant help you there.It may be because of the irresponsible but that is always going to happen.I know BSL is never going to be repealed and it doesnt bother me in the slightest becuase as I told you before I saw it coming along time ago and never registered my dogs as something else but you already know that as I have told you many times.Before you say anything that doesnt put the spotlight on anyone as they have never set a foot wrong and never will.Keep on spewing your asinine vitriole for all to read.We know you are a pitbull hater and that doesnt bother me either.You dont have to like them you just have to know they will never disappear from the Australian landscape,so deal with it champ.

Edited November 17, 2011 by bulldogz4eva

[Keira&Phoenix]

the BSL isn't the issue that concerns me.

I have always been anti BSL.

It's the deception employed when ever a pitbull incident occurs that is the concern to me & many others with breeds directly affected by the deceptions.

the example you quote i.ds a bull terrier X, who i.ded the dog?

The owner did? Well, go on.

And it is accepted by you, & others like you, as irrefutable without really knowing if it is true or not.

If it really was a xbully & that was the catalyst for the BSL, why isn't the bull terrier a restricted breed?

Why? Be honest with yourself.

The best thing that could happen for the breeds favoured in the deceptions would be the repeal of the BSL legislation, if honesty is then applied of course. Which is highly doubtful.

But if.....watch the stats for the xstaffy, xridgey, xamstaff, xbluey, xlab & assorted other X's of various pure breeds drop dramatically.

Oh, not to forget the xmastiffs of course.

There would be no reason for this forum, & it would be the end of the deny & discredit ploy employed everytime a silver bullet of truth/fact is fired through the smokescreen of deception.

And I would be really happy for Chrissie Tybrax, the only the breed stalwart here really walking the walk & displaying any class, ethics & honesty.

She is probably the only poster here who actually owns APBTs & has as much to lose as the owners of all the pure breeds so shamefully discredited by the imposters.

Those with nothing to lose really don't have a lot of cred in the debate. Poseurs, one & all.

Don't delude yourself, the BSL will never be repealed as long as those involved display the irresponsiblity that currently blights the breed.

Fat chance of that.IMO

bTW, APBTs are a banned import.....but of course you knew that.

That hasn't stopped the importation though. Deception is a cottage industry as far as this breed is concerned.

BTW,

Any variations to the DD legislation in the U.K is still to have a list of restricted breeds.

Of which the APBT is numero uno.

#1 on the hit parade.

Fact, as usual.

I find it extremely hard to decipher much of what you say, you talk a load of rubbish and your spelling, grammar and punctuation is atrocious. So if I don't address some things that is why.

Who ID's all the "Pitbulls" involved in attacks. I guess it would be the same person who ID'd the Bull Terrier in that attack. If you are not going to believe them when they ID one type of dog then you can't go off an believe them when they ID another... You talk about the lies told after a "Pitbull" attack but who are you to say it was or wasn't a pitbull attack on those occasions, were you there? Who are you to say people are lying? IF anything the liars are the people IDing the breed without knowing what they are looking at or before any person with any real experience has been bought in, why don't we get to see photos of these dogs?

I explained that the media falesly reported the dog as a Pitbull Terrier instead of a Bull Terrier, hence the ban on Pitbull's and as pointed out by Bulldogz because they are not a recognised breed where as the Bull Terrier is.

If BSL was repealed Pitbulls would no longer be as attractive to the bogans and tough guys because they are no longer illegal, you will then also have decent breeders coming out and breeding GOOD dogs instead of the BYB's out there breeding from whatever lines they want and mixing in what ever other breeds they want.

And then we make the owners responsible, not the dogs, dogs don't control how we treat them.

Funny that Chrissie at this stage doesn't have a dog full stop. I actually know Chrissie quite well.

Since when do you have to own a breed of dog to be passionate about it?

One minute you are bashing APBT people for breaking the law by having a dog they are not supposed to have and then saying that those of us who love the breed and advocate for it are imposters because we don't own the breed....make up your mind.

I have just as much to lose as you, I have a dog (maybe even two) who would meet those silly standards that are going around down in Vic, if those moved to QLD, I would either have to declare both my dogs Pitbull even though at least 1 definitely isn't (she is Ridgeback X Bull Mastiff) or risk having them declared PB and taken by the council. How do I have nothing to lose?

FYI - Here is a few articles that give a rundown of the legislation that has passed the House of Lords in the UK which will REPEAL the Dangerous Dogs Act entirely and hold owners responsible.

http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/dog-control-billb

http://companionanimalnews.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/news-from-the-uk-dog-control-bill-passes-through-the-house-of-lords/

Repeal all existing ‘dangerous dogs’ legislation including breed specific legislation

The police expend significant resources on enforcement of the Dangerous Dogs Act, with large amounts of money being spent on the seizure and kennelling of dogs simply because of their breed type – many of which are returned to their owners once proved to be of good temperament. Removing breed specific legislation would allow those resources to be used more effectively elsewhere, and preferably to concentrate on those dogs showing unprovoked aggression.

Introduce Dog Control Notices

The vast majority of dog attacks are as a result of the irresponsible actions of dog owners, who have either not taken the time and trouble to train their dog correctly, or have indeed trained them to behave aggressively. Dog Control Notices will apply to all types of dog that have acted dangerously without provocation, caused an injury to another protected animal (as defined by the Animal Welfare Act 2006), caused harm, or caused a person to reasonably believe it will cause harm, and works to prevent serious incidents of aggression occurring by allowing preventative action.

Apply to both public and private places

A large proportion of dog attacks occur in the home and involve a dog that is known to the victim. The Dog Control Bill will make attacks on private property a criminal offence. Greater responsibility is therefore placed on owners to ensure that their dogs are not out of control in any place. It is not acceptable for an owner to allow their dog to behave aggressively either in the home or in a public place. The Bill does however include exemptions to cover circumstances such as an attack or aggression as a result of an attack by another animal, or on a person whilst that person is committing an offence.

The Kennel Club is the largest organisation in the UK devoted to dog health, welfare and training. Its objective is to ensure that dogs live healthy, happy lives with responsible owners.

The new legislation will no longer be breed discriminatory and will repeal all of the old laws.

That is a win for the APBT.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[Keira&Phoenix]

In case we really needed to highlight the incompetency of the people ID'ing dogs or WHY Pitbulls were banned in the first place.....

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/dog-mauls-tot-good-samaritan-in-burnside-attack-in-melbournes-west/story-e6frf7jo-1226197826630

There is a picture that states the dog is believed to be the dog involved in the attack. The dog in the picture is clearly a cross of a Bull Terrier (easily identifiable by their Roman nose which you can see in the pic) and the story states the dog is registered as a Bull Terrier X but they call the dog a Pitbull throughout the entire news story and even say the dog is confirmed as a Pitbull X. How do you confirm a dog that looks and is regsitered as a Bull Terrier as a Pitbull? Either they wrote the story with PB in it because they like to sh*t stir and for the attention, or whoever wrote the story doesn't understand that Bull Terrier's and American Pitbull Terriers are two completely separate breeds of dog.

This is how and why Pitbull's are banned, continuous misidentification. This is what happened back in 1991 with the attack on the baby in its own home, the attack that sparked the ban on importation.

ETA - I commented on their news story stating that the dog looks like and is registered as a Bull Terrier and that it is a separate breed and they have now change the breed from Pitbull to Bull Terrier.

Here is a link to a thread in the news section where they quoted the article when it said Pitbull (2nd post)

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/229866-and-another-dog-mauls-a-toddler-and-elderly-lady/page__gopid__5593518#entry5593518

Edited November 17, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[TheCoat]

In case we really needed to highlight the incompetency of the people ID'ing dogs or WHY Pitbulls were banned in the first place.....

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/dog-mauls-tot-good-samaritan-in-burnside-attack-in-melbournes-west/story-e6frf7jo-1226197826630

There is a picture that states the dog is believed to be the dog involved in the attack. The dog in the picture is clearly a cross of a Bull Terrier (easily identifiable by their Roman nose which you can see in the pic) and the story states the dog is registered as a Bull Terrier X but they call the dog a Pitbull throughout the entire news story and even say the dog is confirmed as a Pitbull X. How do you confirm a dog that looks and is regsitered as a Bull Terrier as a Pitbull? Either they wrote the story with PB in it because they like to sh*t stir and for the attention, or whoever wrote the story doesn't understand that Bull Terrier's and American Pitbull Terriers are two completely separate breeds of dog.

This is how and why Pitbull's are banned, continuous misidentification. This is what happened back in 1991 with the attack on the baby in its own home, the attack that sparked the ban on importation.

ETA - I commented on their news story stating that the dog looks like and is registered as a Bull Terrier and that it is a separate breed and they have now change the breed from Pitbull to Bull Terrier.

Here is a link to a thread in the news section where they quoted the article when it said Pitbull (2nd post)

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/229866-and-another-dog-mauls-a-toddler-and-elderly-lady/page__gopid__5593518#entry5593518

I would like to see the attack stats for ANKC papered pure breeds purchased from registered breeders, anyone have those statistics on hand?

Edited November 17, 2011 by TheCoat

[geo]

I would like to see the attack stats for ANKC papered pure breeds purchased from registered breeders, anyone have those statistics on hand?

[/quote ]

I don't think that is question the journalists ask.. as long as someone says it's a pitbull or looks like one then the media is happy.. seriously many wouldn't even know what the hell the ANKC is!"

You ask any Amstaff breeder and they'll tell you many of their dogs are hard dogs to handle, you sell one dog to the wrong person and whammo ANKC wont mean shit. Because when it comes down to it a piece of paper will not stop a dog biting nor will it stop undesirables owning ANKC registered pure breeds.

Then all you will say is, "well it must be a pitbull" masquerading as an amstaff.

True pure bred pitbulls are as rare as the rockin' horse' proverbial, yes they're out they're but not as popular as the "blue whales" being peddled by ANKA breeders.

Time for ANKC amstaff breeders to close ranks I reckon and start protecting "their" breed as right now it's not happening. It'll be too late to blame the pitbull because the paper trail will lead straight back to the breeders, then the one leg you had (we're not pitbulls) to stand on will be gone and we'll be left with our 6 generation cross bred mongrels.

[TheCoat]

I would like to see the attack stats for ANKC papered pure breeds purchased from registered breeders, anyone have those statistics on hand?

[/quote ]

I don't think that is question the journalists ask.. as long as someone says it's a pitbull or looks like one then the media is happy.. seriously many wouldn't even know what the hell the ANKC is!"

You ask any Amstaff breeder and they'll tell you many of their dogs are hard dogs to handle, you sell one dog to the wrong person and whammo ANKC wont mean shit. Because when it comes down to it a piece of paper will not stop a dog biting nor will it stop undesirables owning ANKC registered pure breeds.

Then all you will say is, "well it must be a pitbull" masquerading as an amstaff.

True pure bred pitbulls are as rare as the rockin' horse' proverbial, yes they're out they're but not as popular as the "blue whales" being peddled by ANKA breeders.

Time for ANKC amstaff breeders to close ranks I reckon and start protecting "their" breed as right now it's not happening. It'll be too late to blame the pitbull because the paper trail will lead straight back to the breeders, then the one leg you had (we're not pitbulls) to stand on will be gone and we'll be left with our 6 generation cross bred mongrels.

Geo, are you saying that Amstaff's do have a predisposition for aggression and can be threatening to community safety in the wrong hands?