2 Of Our Pups Got Bitten By A Snake Today.

[Just Midol]

I'd have the patient in the care of health professionals. There oxygen can be given to help breathing, intravenous fluids, pain relief and sedatives. None will assist with the venom itself but all will help the patient to recover from it's effects if they are going to be able to.

As I would.

But if someone who knows nothing about snake bites and was told by a health professional to take their dog home they can't really be blamed. The vet can though.

Bittymoo, take a look at who you are arguing with and then decide whether it is worth it or not.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Lord Midol

[raz]

When my husband got home from work this morning at about 11am he noticed of of the girls was foaming at the mouth and had alot of saliva all down her chest and legs, we were a bit freaked out but didnt think to much of it

thanks for all your support and thoughts guys, like cazablanca we couldnt afford to pay upfront in out local vet but it looks as if we are goig to have to do some thing they have made it though the night but are completely paralized we are going to the vets now, they have gone majorly down hill in about 15mins

You disgust me. Whilst I understand you may not have had the money to treat these dogs, instead of sitting there watching them suffer a long and painfull process you should have done the right thing by the poor little buggers and had them pts. I couldn't sit there and watch my dogs die in pain and agony.

Get a grip . I hope you never get anywhere near my pets or family if they are ill. I'd at least hope they would have a chance to recover before being killed 'just in case'.

Get a grip yourself. Leaving a pet to die from envenomation is just as bad as letting it die from being smashed up in a car accident. Be a responsible pet owner and DO NOT WITH HOLD VETERINARY TREATMENT FOR YOUR PETS IN CRISIS!

[MolassesLass]

I'd have the patient in the care of health professionals. There oxygen can be given to help breathing, intravenous fluids, pain relief and sedatives. None will assist with the venom itself but all will help the patient to recover from it's effects if they are going to be able to.

As I would.

But if someone who knows nothing about snake bites and was told by a health professional to take their dog home they can't really be blamed. The vet can though.

Maybe but when a bunch of people tell me the health professional is wrong I would seek a second opinion or demand the original one did something more if they were the only one available. I'm not saying these two pups necassarily were in agony and cruelly treated but I can understand people's frustration at the lack of action.

[Just Midol]

I'd have the patient in the care of health professionals. There oxygen can be given to help breathing, intravenous fluids, pain relief and sedatives. None will assist with the venom itself but all will help the patient to recover from it's effects if they are going to be able to.

As I would.

But if someone who knows nothing about snake bites and was told by a health professional to take their dog home they can't really be blamed. The vet can though.

Maybe but when a bunch of people tell me the health professional is wrong I would seek a second opinion or demand the original one did something more if they were the only one available. I'm not saying these two pups necassarily were in agony and cruelly treated but I can understand people's frustration at the lack of action.

Frustration, yes, but nothing excuses the behaviour in this thread.

[raz]

Bittymoo, take a look at who you are arguing with and then decide whether it is worth it or not.

That would be you. Google is your friend - oh wait no it's not. That was shown in the other snake thread.

[raz]

Frustration, yes, but nothing excuses the behaviour in this thread.

What? You mean like this?

Midol: Your vet is an idiot

[MolassesLass]

Frustration, yes, but nothing excuses the behaviour in this thread.

Who said it did, certainly not me.

[Danois]

...but are completely paralized we are going to the vets now, they have gone majorly down hill in about 15mins

There was no indication that these dogs were suffering in any way.

What the???

OP says dog is PARALYSED

You say - no indicaton the dogs were suffering.

Is there a part of paralysed that is not understood?

What about paralysis of airways? bowels? bladder? How about pyschological effect on the dog?

How is this not suffering??

IMO this is straight out abuse.

[perrin]

I cant believe the hypocracy. Apparently if you leave your dogs unattended in an area that is not snake proof, and they get bitten and die, you deserve sympathy. BUT if you find your dogs before they die and take them to the vet, you deserve contempt if you cant afford AV. How does that make sense??

It was never my intention to flame the opening poster. I'm very sad that she was in a position where she had to make the choice that she did. I'm sorry if she feels that everyone is against her.

I'm guessing that you are referring to me here in the part i quoted.

For the record i don't believe that i deserve sympathy. I'm not looking for sympathy nor was i when i posted after it first happened.

Having a snake proof pen is useless if you leave the door open when your dog is not in there. Which stupidly i did. Yes i have learnt a valuable lesson. At the cost of my dogs life.

[poodlefan]

Symptoms of snake bite:

The bite site is usually painless. It may have classical paired fang marks, but this is not the most common picture. Often there are just a few lacerations or scratches, and sometimes these may be painless or go unnoticed. Bruising, bleeding, and local swelling may be present, but significant local tissue destruction is uncommon in Australia.

Regional lymphadenopathy may be marked, even with non-venomous snake bites, and is not by itself an indication for the administration of antivenom. It may contribute to abdominal pain in children.

The usual sequence of systemic symptom development goes something like this:

(<1hr) Headache (an important symptom), irritability, photophobia, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, confusion; coagulation abnormalities; occasionally sudden hypotension with loss of consciousness.

(1-3 hrs) Cranial nerve paralysis (ptosis, diplopia, dysphagia etc), abdominal pain, haemoglobinuria, hypertension, tachycardia, haemmorrhage.

(>3hrs) Limb and respiratory muscle paralysis leading to respiratory failure, peripheral circulatory failure with pallor and cyanosis, myoglobinuria, eventually death.

This sequence of events is highly variable. Brown snake bites, even apparently trivial ones, have been associated with acute deterioration over a five minute period leading to death. This may occur as soon as 30 minutes to an hour after the original bite. Acute, severe cardiac depression may be the mechanism for sudden death.

Nothing about what's written above would allow me to let my dogs die of snake bite when I could have them PTS.

If you can't afford anti-venom, cough up for some green dream I reckon or put a bullet in them if you must. No animal should die in distress when we have the capacity to stop the suffering.

[Jed]

They weren't left without treatment . Why do ppl keep coming on DOL just to criticise those who dont do things they way they (presume) they would themselves! Now the OP has been accused of 'leaving them without treatment', and leaving them 'in agony all night' NEITHER of which are true.

What if AV cost $10,000? Would everyone still be saying that owner is doing the wrong thing by not paying for it? Or what about $100,000? Everyone has their own finanical limits, and people who presume that they can afford something, therefore everyone else can are not making any sense to me, or are just trying to cause trouble.

This poor dog-loving person, who has come to DOL for support, and has possible lost two of her dogs, has not deserved any of this criticism. For goodness sake, the dogs were taken to the vet and treatment was given to make the dogs comfortable and hydrated and give them the best chance of survivial without AV. Then when they declined, they were taken (withing 15 minutes of declining) back to the vet. What on earth more could anyone ask for??? Yes the pups may have been better off with AV (or the outcome might have been the same) but the owner couldnt afford it. I havent seen any of the critics offering $4k for these dogs treatment.

I cant believe the hypocracy. Apparently if you leave your dogs unattended in an area that is not snake proof, and they get bitten and die, you deserve sympathy. BUT if you find your dogs before they die and take them to the vet, you deserve contempt if you cant afford AV. How does that make sense??

This is a Health/Nutrition/Grooming forum. NOT a 'slag off every dog owner who doesn't do what I do' forum. If people cant come to here to get support and advise, it is only the dogs who are going to suffer .

I agree with this. The OP did go to the vet. None of us knows what the situation is or was. Instead of giving support, everyone jumped on the OP. Not everyone has four grand, and for all we know, the vet may not have had any anti venene.

I don't think the OP deserves the criticism either. A bit of support in a difficult situation would have been more appropriate, I think. I wouldn't like to lose my dogs and get a flogging on a forum where I might have hoped for suppport. A bit of empathy wouldn't go astray. I personally feel for the op. An extremely difficult situation.

[Jed]

PF

Nothing about what's written above would allow me to let my dogs die of snake bite when I could have them PTS.

And if the vet said they might pull through? What then? Would you give them the chance, or pts?

Here's what the op said

the vet told us that if they make it though tonight they will be ok, once there past 16hrs they have a total survival rate. he put them on a drip, but there is no way we could afford the anti-vemon its over 4000 to do both dogs but the vet said that he thinks they will be fine as it seems to be a baby snake that bit them as they would have died within 20mins of being bitten if it was a large snake.

When the pups become worse, the OP returned to the vet. As the vet had instructed.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Jed

[poodlefan]

PF

Nothing about what's written above would allow me to let my dogs die of snake bite when I could have them PTS.

And if the vet said they might pull through? What then? Would you give them the chance, or pts?

If my dog was paralysed and in obvious distress Jed, I'd ask the vet to ease them out.. Maybe its because mine are small and I've never heard of a dog that's recovered from such a bite without AV. In my dogs case, they probably wouldn't make it to the vet. We had an incident here some years back when a lady's three Mini Schnauzers took on a brown snake at local dog club. All three were dead within 20 minutes.

[JOLEY]

he noticed of of the girls was foaming at the mouth and had alot of saliva all down her chest and legs, we were a bit freaked out but didnt think to much of it just kept a close eye on her. about 30mins later we noticed rambo our boy doing the same thing, both of them were really lethagic and couldnt stay up

there eyes are the most saddest thing the third eye is completely covering there eyes, and they cant keep them open or stad up for long

they have gone majorly down hill in about 15mins

they have made it though the night but are completely paralized

So tell me BMP where was it that you said they weren't suffering????

Go back and read my post I never slammed these people for not spending $4000 on their dogs I understand some people don't have that money laying around for vet treatment but there is no excuse for leaving these poor dogs to suffer a painful death.....read the OP's quotes above......these dogs were suffering and in extreme pain! They should have done the right thing and put these poor dogs out of their misery. They disgust me because animals they profess to love were left in this state.

I'm sorry but sending hugs and kisses to people who are prepared to watch these animals suffer is ridiculous.

On the same day many people in the general forum slammed a family for watching their brother's dog suffer and not do anything about it (they deserved a slamming) and yet we hug and kiss these people who supposedly love the dogs and are doing the same thing, watching them suffer.

These people didn't come back not because of my comments, they didn't come back because deep down no matter how much they justify it, not putting a dying animal that you can't offer veterinary assistance and is suffering so badly to sleep is WRONG and they know it.

Edited for missing word.

Edited November 14, 2008 by JOLEY

[Troy]

Closing topic