aj88 Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Im a vet nurse and when owners dont want to pay for treatments and preventions (heartworm, desexing blah blah blah) i get really mad because it is their responsibility. But when something like this happens i can sympathise with them. Not everyone buys an animal thinking the worse will happen, thinking they will have to fork out 4000 bucks. Not everyone has that much money in the back and not everyone has a credit card. With the prices of mortgages atm and fuel it is very hard to pay that much money. I certainly dont have $4000 in the back, i have a house to pay for! If this happened to my dogs it would be different because i work at the clinic and so payment wouldnt be an issue i would be allowed to do installments - not all clinics allow this. Its not being harsh its just we have to pay for those drugs and treatments and pathology and it comes out of our pocket and stuffs up cashflow. Although our main interest is in saving the animals, it is still a business and still has to work. So i can understand this, it is horrible, but i sympathise. Most hospitals will let you pay over time - they wont just let people die because the parent/patient cant pay up front. In response to your question about insurance. Most clinics allow GE credit, which means they pay us, then you pay them in payment installments. I didnt have $10,000 cash lying around when my dogs were envenomated either. I had the option of finding it or to PTS - not to just take them home. There's more to this story than meets the eye. Besides - AV does NOT cost $4000. How do you know what clinics charge for certain drugs. Just because you paid cheaper doesnt mean it is that amount everywhere. I know we are a hell of alot cheaper than most clinics, prices do go up and down and yes i hav seen invoices from vet clinics where their anti venom has cost 1000 for a vial. At least if they were at home the owner could watch them instead of them lying in a vet clinic overnight with nobody there. Then they could ring the vet if they were needed. I am NOT saying thats the best thing to do but you cannot blame people if they cant just give up on them, not everyone is the same. And you need to sympathise with their wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 (edited) How do you know what clinics charge for certain drugs. Just because you paid cheaper doesnt mean it is that amount everywhere. I didnt pay cheaper - I paid through the nose at a specialist medical and emrgency clinic. What's with your red herring in this thread? have you read the entire thread??? Edited November 14, 2008 by raz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj88 Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 How do you know what clinics charge for certain drugs. Just because you paid cheaper doesnt mean it is that amount everywhere. I didnt pay cheaper - I paid through the nose at a specialist medical and emrgency clinic. What's with your red herring in this thread? have you read the entire thread??? well you said AV dopesnt cost 4 grand, how do you know that that clinic doesnt charge that much? Yep just finished reading the whole thread, i reply as i go. is that a crime. Not one of you has sympathised with the owner. I am mixed up in this topic, and i have a different srt of opinions both for and against what the owner did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 (edited) I am mixed up in this topic Sure looks like it. Tell me what clinic in Australia charges 4 grand for a vial of AV? Edited November 14, 2008 by raz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I am mixed up in this topic Sure looks like it. Tell me what clinic in Australia charges 4 grand for a vial of AV? 2 dogs would be two vials ... and I thought someone said the dogs might need two vials each ... so that is $2400 just for the meds, then the cost of the vets time etc would be added (times two dogs). If the vet doesnt have the AV it would need to be couriered in which increases the cost too. If it was after hours add another several hundred (times two dogs) .... I can see how it could cost $4k at some vets. ($2K per dog). Dont forget too that the OP was advised by the vet that the dogs would probably be OK and to take them home. If my vet said that I would probably believe him . I dont understand why vets who have a 'relationship' with their clients dont accept delayed payment in an emergency . If you just turn up for the first time, or if it is an emergency clinic, maybe, but not your own vet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I am mixed up in this topic Sure looks like it. Tell me what clinic in Australia charges 4 grand for a vial of AV? 2 dogs would be two vials ... and I thought someone said the dogs might need two vials each ... so that is $2400 just for the meds, then the cost of the vets time etc would be added (times two dogs). If the vet doesnt have the AV it would need to be couriered in which increases the cost too. If it was after hours add another several hundred (times two dogs) .... I can see how it could cost $4k at some vets. ($2K per dog). Dont forget too that the OP was advised by the vet that the dogs would probably be OK and to take them home. If my vet said that I would probably believe him . I dont understand why vets who have a 'relationship' with their clients dont accept delayed payment in an emergency . If you just turn up for the first time, or if it is an emergency clinic, maybe, but not your own vet! Wow. I think some people must have their keyboards set to mandarin because obviously some people are having trouble reading their posts. Have you read the entire thread??? Bashing my head on a brick wall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 aj88 Not one of you has sympathised with the owner. Sorry, at least 5 people did, and wished the dogs well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I am mixed up in this topic Sure looks like it. Tell me what clinic in Australia charges 4 grand for a vial of AV? 2 dogs would be two vials ... and I thought someone said the dogs might need two vials each ... so that is $2400 just for the meds, then the cost of the vets time etc would be added (times two dogs). If the vet doesnt have the AV it would need to be couriered in which increases the cost too. If it was after hours add another several hundred (times two dogs) .... I can see how it could cost $4k at some vets. ($2K per dog). Dont forget too that the OP was advised by the vet that the dogs would probably be OK and to take them home. If my vet said that I would probably believe him . I dont understand why vets who have a 'relationship' with their clients dont accept delayed payment in an emergency ;) . If you just turn up for the first time, or if it is an emergency clinic, maybe, but not your own vet! Wow. I think some people must have their keyboards set to mandarin because obviously some people are having trouble reading their posts. Have you read the entire thread??? Bashing my head on a brick wall... Yes I have! :p . but the vet said that he thinks they will be fine as it seems to be a baby snake that bit them as they would have died within 20mins of being bitten if it was a large snake. YOu said yourself: 2 of mine were in intensive care for over a week and cost quite a bit more than that, Caz. It's not the AV that costs that much. From memory the vials were about $600 each. It's all the other treatment that adds up. So BTW last time I rang around to get costs for AV, I was quoted $1000 per vial if the snake was unknown. Jut because your vet charged $600 per vial, doesn't mean that all vets do, nor do these dogs necessarily need the same AV you have priced at $600. It is also possible that the vet doesnt stock AV, so has to courier it in (as I said) AND he/she may have to purchase a minimum amount, so would charge the client accordingly. We had a case when a foster had heartworm, where the treament costs were through the roof because the vet didnt stock the meds needed, and had to purchase enough for four dogs (minimum amount sold), which we had to pay for even though we only needed enough for one dog. The same thing could happen with AV, or the vet could have felt they needed two vials each. Comprehende? (that's not Mandarin btw ) Whatever happened, I dont see how slamming the OP, who has probably lost two pups, will help . The vet should have said they needed AV, and not suggested the pups would be OK without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 The vet should have said they needed AV, and not suggested the pups would be OK without it. Bingo! And how do you know the Vet did NOT say that? You dont - nor does anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 The vet should have said they needed AV, and not suggested the pups would be OK without it. Bingo! And how do you know the Vet did NOT say that? You dont - nor does anyone else. I'm going by what the OP said. Why would you assume otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Your dogs should have been put on AV. What kind of vet would tell you that it was only a baby snake so the pups would be OK. Baby elapids are venomous.I hope for the sake of the pups they pull through. she just said she couldnt afford the AV - the vet probably advised to put them on it but not everyone can just fork out 4000 And if that's the case then the dogs should have been pts rather than left in agony, I think is the point people are trying to make. Why? Quite often dogs will pull through without AV. If your mother or father couldn't get AV after a taipan bite would you just put them to sleep or would you hope and pray that they pulled through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I am mixed up in this topic Sure looks like it. Tell me what clinic in Australia charges 4 grand for a vial of AV? 2 dogs would be two vials ... and I thought someone said the dogs might need two vials each ... so that is $2400 just for the meds, then the cost of the vets time etc would be added (times two dogs). If the vet doesnt have the AV it would need to be couriered in which increases the cost too. If it was after hours add another several hundred (times two dogs) .... I can see how it could cost $4k at some vets. ($2K per dog). Dont forget too that the OP was advised by the vet that the dogs would probably be OK and to take them home. If my vet said that I would probably believe him . I dont understand why vets who have a 'relationship' with their clients dont accept delayed payment in an emergency . If you just turn up for the first time, or if it is an emergency clinic, maybe, but not your own vet! Wow. I think some people must have their keyboards set to mandarin because obviously some people are having trouble reading their posts. Have you read the entire thread??? Bashing my head on a brick wall... Yes I have! . but the vet said that he thinks they will be fine as it seems to be a baby snake that bit them as they would have died within 20mins of being bitten if it was a large snake. YOu said yourself: 2 of mine were in intensive care for over a week and cost quite a bit more than that, Caz. It's not the AV that costs that much. From memory the vials were about $600 each. It's all the other treatment that adds up. So BTW last time I rang around to get costs for AV, I was quoted $1000 per vial if the snake was unknown. Jut because your vet charged $600 per vial, doesn't mean that all vets do, nor do these dogs necessarily need the same AV you have priced at $600. It is also possible that the vet doesnt stock AV, so has to courier it in (as I said) AND he/she may have to purchase a minimum amount, so would charge the client accordingly. We had a case when a foster had heartworm, where the treament costs were through the roof because the vet didnt stock the meds needed, and had to purchase enough for four dogs (minimum amount sold), which we had to pay for even though we only needed enough for one dog. The same thing could happen with AV, or the vet could have felt they needed two vials each. Comprehende? (that's not Mandarin btw ) Whatever happened, I dont see how slamming the OP, who has probably lost two pups, will help . The vet should have said they needed AV, and not suggested the pups would be OK without it. The $600 vials Raz is quoting were brown/tiger. Polyvalent is a lot more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 If your mother or father couldn't get AV after a taipan bite would you just put them to sleep or would you hope and pray that they pulled through? I wouldn't leave them with no treatment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 If your mother or father couldn't get AV after a taipan bite would you just put them to sleep or would you hope and pray that they pulled through? I wouldn't leave them with no treatment... So what would you do, you can't get any AV. AV is the only effective treatment for elapids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I'd have the patient in the care of health professionals. There oxygen can be given to help breathing, intravenous fluids, pain relief and sedatives. None will assist with the venom itself but all will help the patient to recover from it's effects if they are going to be able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Why?Quite often dogs will pull through without AV. If your mother or father couldn't get AV after a taipan bite would you just put them to sleep or would you hope and pray that they pulled through? Rubbish! Over 70% of dogs not treated with AV when they have been envenomated by an elapid in this country DIE! No vet in their right mind would just say - take it home so it can die in your arms...while it's shitting it's bowels out, bleeding out, in complete renal failure, and asphyxiating because it's in complete paralysis and the diaphragm will no longer allow it to breath. Cant afford the AV - then do the humane thing. People in this thread, including King Midol, told the Op to get the pups back to the vet. When they were in complete paralysis she was still sitting at the computer. And absolutely NO comparison between medical treatment and veterinary treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 If your mother or father couldn't get AV after a taipan bite would you just put them to sleep or would you hope and pray that they pulled through? I wouldn't leave them with no treatment... They weren't left without treatment . Why do ppl keep coming on DOL just to criticise those who dont do things they way they (presume) they would themselves! Now the OP has been accused of 'leaving them without treatment', and leaving them 'in agony all night' NEITHER of which are true. What if AV cost $10,000? Would everyone still be saying that owner is doing the wrong thing by not paying for it? Or what about $100,000? Everyone has their own finanical limits, and people who presume that they can afford something, therefore everyone else can are not making any sense to me, or are just trying to cause trouble. This poor dog-loving person, who has come to DOL for support, and has possible lost two of her dogs, has not deserved any of this criticism. For goodness sake, the dogs were taken to the vet and treatment was given to make the dogs comfortable and hydrated and give them the best chance of survivial without AV. Then when they declined, they were taken (withing 15 minutes of declining) back to the vet. What on earth more could anyone ask for??? Yes the pups may have been better off with AV (or the outcome might have been the same) but the owner couldnt afford it. I havent seen any of the critics offering $4k for these dogs treatment. I cant believe the hypocracy. Apparently if you leave your dogs unattended in an area that is not snake proof, and they get bitten and die, you deserve sympathy. BUT if you find your dogs before they die and take them to the vet, you deserve contempt if you cant afford AV. How does that make sense?? This is a Health/Nutrition/Grooming forum. NOT a 'slag off every dog owner who doesn't do what I do' forum. If people cant come to here to get support and advise, it is only the dogs who are going to suffer . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 They weren't left without treatment . Crap. They were left without treatment! She didnt want to pay so she took them home. She was sitting on the computer when the dogs were in complete paralysis. No AV - no treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 (edited) Excuse me BMP but I was replying quite obviously to Midol no one else, direct your hysteria elsewhere thanks. EFS: Too mad to type right Edited November 14, 2008 by molasseslass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 When my husband got home from work this morning at about 11am he noticed of of the girls was foaming at the mouth and had alot of saliva all down her chest and legs, we were a bit freaked out but didnt think to much of it thanks for all your support and thoughts guys, like cazablanca we couldnt afford to pay upfront in out local vet but it looks as if we are goig to have to do some thing they have made it though the night but are completely paralized we are going to the vets now, they have gone majorly down hill in about 15mins You disgust me. Whilst I understand you may not have had the money to treat these dogs, instead of sitting there watching them suffer a long and painfull process you should have done the right thing by the poor little buggers and had them pts. I couldn't sit there and watch my dogs die in pain and agony. Get a grip . I hope you never get anywhere near my pets or family if they are ill. I'd at least hope they would have a chance to recover before being killed 'just in case'. what the heck, why not just kill everyone now, just in case they suffer in the future, after all, chances are that many will. There was no indication that these dogs were suffering in any way. The op made it clear that they were made comfortable, and that the vet beleived they had a good chance of pulling through, so where do you get off making this sort of statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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