Rough Taking Of Food Rewards

[Luke W]

Barkly used to be pretty gentle taking food rewards, plus I always tried to give them off the palm of my hand rather than out of my fingertips.

A couple of things have changed:

1. I often throw his reward to him - he can catch food now - so he gets a little less practice taking food when he's static.

2. I'm doing a lot more work on heeling and so I'm rewarding him with food WHILE he's walking by my side and it's also coming from my finger tips.

He's a little rough when he's taking his food reward, especially when he's heeling. I guess it's not as easy for him to be slow and gentle when he's in motion with his head up and my hand is moving a little as well. He tends to snatch a little bit and his teeth often graze (without breaking skin) my fingers.

So...

Any suggestions on getting him to be as gentle as possible when taking food rewards until all circumstances?

A better technique for me?

Thanks.

[Nekhbet]

does he have a command? my dogs are taught a command to eat or take offered food and I find if they hear the command they are gentle even walking. I start with offering a fist with food in the middle. If the dog bites i growl and remove the hand. The point is that the dog should sniff and lick to get the mind going 'ahh there is food there, how do I get it' and not 'OMG FOOD CHOMP" which is counterproductive. When the dog is interested but not nipping i turn my hand over and slowly open my fingers to offer the food. My dogue was taught this way and despite his massive head he is so gentle when he takes food, he sort of sucks it into his mouth with his lips.

do this at a sit, or go back to the palm routine while he is at a sit and start again with him. He gets food when he is calm and ONLY when he is calm then you say the word. Dont say 'Eat' *offer* chomp 'NO BAD DOG' - a dog does not understand being told off for complying.

[Luke W]

does he have a command? my dogs are taught a command to eat or take offered food and I find if they hear the command they are gentle even walking. I start with offering a fist with food in the middle. If the dog bites i growl and remove the hand. The point is that the dog should sniff and lick to get the mind going 'ahh there is food there, how do I get it' and not 'OMG FOOD CHOMP" which is counterproductive. When the dog is interested but not nipping i turn my hand over and slowly open my fingers to offer the food. My dogue was taught this way and despite his massive head he is so gentle when he takes food, he sort of sucks it into his mouth with his lips.

do this at a sit, or go back to the palm routine while he is at a sit and start again with him. He gets food when he is calm and ONLY when he is calm then you say the word. Dont say 'Eat' *offer* chomp 'NO BAD DOG' - a dog does not understand being told off for complying.

OK - cool - food for thought (excuse the pun)

He's got an 'off' command - which means don't take food until I say "take it".

But I tend to just use this as a self-control exercise and wait till he gives me eye contact before I give the 'take it' command.

The way it goes is:

"Off"

Throw or offer food.

Wait for eye contact

"Take it"

I do this exercise with food in my hand, thrown to the ground, placed on his paw, etc. He's not super-gently even during this exercise but he is never mouthing when he gets the take it command. He does tend to be a little in food drive I guess so he's pretty eager (but controlling himself somewhat).

I don't normally give the 'take it' command when offering his standard reward. Partly because he'll take it if it's offered UNLESS it's preceeded by "off".

Maybe giving 'take it' everytime and getting rid of the 'off' command would help?

[TerraNik]

There's a YouTube video of a different way to teach nice manners... Might be worth a look?

[Luke W]

Thanks, he's OK if I'm slow and gentle myself, it's mainly a problem in the 'heat of battle' so to speak.

[TerraNik]

Thanks, he's OK if I'm slow and gentle myself, it's mainly a problem in the 'heat of battle' so to speak.

At least he'll take food while you're heeling!! Jedi has to stop to eat!! Poor boy is too uncoordinated to heel and eat at the same time!

[persephone]

I was going to suggest what nekhbet does

Always start off with a closed fist hiding the food...they won't usually attempt to chomp a fist

If they are very keen on food- this method may also be used to teach them to raise a paw /wave on command- as some food motivated little sods will start pawing at your fist . Instead of getting cross- associate it with a command

[Clyde]

I'm having the same problem with Esme at the moment. She's a chomper but manages to just curb her urges at a standstill, but when practicing heeling she takes my fingers off. We haven't done heeling practice for a week as it hurts too much

I usually do her training in the mornings when she is hungry for breakfast. Perhaps I should feed her a little beforehand to calm down the desperation for her food?

[Luke W]

I just did some heal work...

Before doing the heal work I was practicing holding eye contact.

Me sitting on the couch and clicking for sustained eye contact. Then giving the treat, slowly and gently.

His food taking during the heal work was a little better.

Oh and saying 'take it' seemed ot make him more gentle too.

Interesting.

[dogdude]

Hi Luke

My advice is to teach your dog to run to a food target, after a release command. If you are interested in trialling, then you want your dog to be thinking about nothing but how to get the release. By having it in your hand/pouch, you are adding a visual element that creates a focus that is not true.

Start off by running to a food bag with your dog after release, then slowly let him go get it himself.

[Luke W]

Hi Luke

My advice is to teach your dog to run to a food target, after a release command. If you are interested in trialling, then you want your dog to be thinking about nothing but how to get the release. By having it in your hand/pouch, you are adding a visual element that creates a focus that is not true.

Start off by running to a food bag with your dog after release, then slowly let him go get it himself.

Good advice - something new to practice.

Any video, link or books that describe the practicalities?

I get the part wher I run to the bag but I don't imagine I train him to run to an open bag of diced chicken and let him woof down the whole lot!

[Kavik]

You can place one piece of food on a target plate, or a food container which is shut. With Diesel I can just use my treat bag, he will wait for me to come over to give him a reward - wouldn't try it with the Kelpies, they would help themselves! I also use food on a target plate.

[Luke W]

You can place one piece of food on a target plate, or a food container which is shut. With Diesel I can just use my treat bag, he will wait for me to come over to give him a reward - wouldn't try it with the Kelpies, they would help themselves! I also use food on a target plate.

OK - I guess your at the stage where you go quite a while before he gets his treat? A long series of behaviors then a treat at the end of the session?

[Kavik]

Nope - with Diesel I am building drive, so just working on the sending bit - we are up to about 20-22 paces. At the moment I am not worried about focus on me or anything, just focus and desire and speed to the food target plate. I did try to incorporate it into my heeling, but I was too impatient and did it before I had a reliable and fast send so I am working on that now.

With heeling at the moment, I spit food, use a clicker or a toy in my hand or hidden in my shirt (if he will work for a toy at the time).

[JulesP]

I think I would be working on taking the food nicely as a separate thing to your heeling. I don't know how sensitive your pup is but mine would probably connect any sort of training with the food with the heeling, and I want the heeling to be clearly rewarded.

I sometimes have the food on me. Sometimes it is on the bin. Depending on what I am doing. Food is on me if I want quick. instant treating. If it is on the bin, I might heel 6 paces, verbally mark, release and run to the bin with great excitement and then treat Poppy. This sort of treating does build good enthusiasm in the dog.

[Luke W]

I think I would be working on taking the food nicely as a separate thing to your heeling. I don't know how sensitive your pup is but mine would probably connect any sort of training with the food with the heeling, and I want the heeling to be clearly rewarded.

I sometimes have the food on me. Sometimes it is on the bin. Depending on what I am doing. Food is on me if I want quick. instant treating. If it is on the bin, I might heel 6 paces, verbally mark, release and run to the bin with great excitement and then treat Poppy. This sort of treating does build good enthusiasm in the dog.

Thanks Jules - more stuff to work on.

[dogdude]

The way I train, is to end each session with the jackpot, but you can control the portions as Kavik suggested. I pick one part exercise, work for a short duration on that, then release.

There is really no point in trying to concentrate on a chain of exercises while maintaining fantastic food drive. Make each session really stick in the memory bank.

My dog doesn't get fed outside of training time. To make them work hard sometimes for their food, and not others, (in K9force's words) It can become "painfull".

Read the TOT for ideas on how to promote food drive.

[WalandLibby]

Kay Laurence has info in her basic book (is it novice?) about presentation of treats. Presenting treats on the flat of the hand (takes some practice to get the action smooth) makes as big difference for some dogs.

[4 Paws]

have you thought about spitting the treats from your mouth for the time being

Edited November 9, 2008 by 4 Paws