JulesP Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Ok so you are training your doggie, when do you decide to enter a trial? When you think the dog is working at 100%? When you think the dog could pass the next level up? Or do you just give it a go even though you are not sure of the outcome? Just been told Poppy is ready to trial . I like to really cement the work though and at the moment I think she might pass or might fail, lol. Failing might be good for me btw as I have nerve issues and need to see that failing is not the end of the world!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) Great question! I want to have 110% faith in Zig before I step in the ring - I absolutely have that for his recall and stays. When I have that with his heel work (ongoing focus is the main issue) I'll enter. SFE is more a case of a lack of practice so I'm not particularly concerned about that. Go Poppy ETA: I love to see happy dogs in the ring. IMO happy dogs understand what is required of them - Zig looks so confident and nearly busting out of this skin when he does his recall and stays. He is having a lot more of those moments with his heel work but I'd like to see him confident from start to finish. It really is a surprisingly complex exercise! Edited November 6, 2008 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Interesting question - my first dog I just put in and she passed her novice 4 trials for 4 passes. My friend just wanted company at the trial so I said I suppose I can enter. Walked away with a very nice 187 and second on count back under the old rules with all that god dam heelwork . I held off for ages in open and then I was having a trip to WA and got gently prodded into entering. More like I had sent entry forms to the person I was staying with and they said and by the way your entered in Open at the State Obedience Champs . Well she passed that trial, not with a great score and then just over a fortnight later had her CDX. Again 3 passes from 3 trials. First UD trial was also a case of a trip interstate and a gentle shove with no expectations. No we didn't pass but we only failed 2 little bits which is a lot closer then we have come since. Everybody watches me train my now 7 month old baby and keeps asking when she is entering her first trial. Her heelwork is very nice and has the most wonderful attention but no way will she venture into the ring untill she is at least trained through to UD. I don't necessarily mean a polished performance but at least a very solid foundation. She has lots of years ahead of her and there is no rush to get her into the ring. She will probably have the more complicated open and ud exercises to a more than reasonable level before I am going to be happy enough with the length of duration on her heelwork to even consider entering. Yes I could push her now but if you want a nice performance that won't break down there is no point. Slow and steady will get me there in the end. She loves her heelwork and happily offers me nearly 30 seconds of pefect focus without so much as a toy or treat in sight or even in my possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiechick Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) Firstly you need to not think of trialling in terms of 'pass' or 'fail' or you are going to spend a great deal of your trialling career disappointed. Not sure what discipline of trialling - obedience? agility? other? you are referring to, but I will give you my take on agility as I'm sure it carries over to other areas. Going clear is only one small part of an agility run - OK I'll admit that it's a very nice part! but the bond and teamwork between you and your dog far outweighs this IMO, whether you go clear or not. Same could be said for obedience I think? Ultimately YOU have to make the decision yourself, but here are some things you might want to think about to help you make the decision: -Discuss with your instructor (sounds as if you have done that one) -Is your dog physically capable of running a full course at full height and mentally capable of handling the stress of the trial ring? - impossible to replicate in training. Or for obedience, the same trial stress would still be there so the metal readiness would be a factor. -How well does your dog retain focus on you with distractions present? (If there is even the slightest chance that your dog may leave the ring and go anywhere near another dog, then do not enter until this is under control - have seen a potentially huge incident narrowly avoided when a novice dog ran into the next ring - and sometimes they set up rings bordering each other at some trials) This would be true for both agility and I guess for obedience on the stays? -Can your dog perform all equipment safely and on both sides - expect to lose on average 50% of your training when you go into the ring for the first time. May not have the safety issue with obedience? but I would imagine losing the 50% still true. -Will your dog hold a startline stay? Don't be fooled into thinking you can work on this down the track - get it right from the beginning. -Do you have a consistent method of 'handling' your dog with a system of cues - body, position, movement, verbal, etc ? Would this be the same for obedience? -Is your dog comfortable on long driving trips and being left alone either crated or in the car? -Have you visited a trial with your dog? Walked around the rings and seen how your dog reacted? Have you volunteered at a trial yourself? Stewarding is a great way to learn how it all works first hand and IMO should be compulsory for a 'newbie' to do it at least once - plus you get the best seat in the house to watch from ! -Are you able to set goals for your runs on the day that don't include passing, winning, etc. ? Things like ' I will give my signals early' and ' I will not crowd my dog in the weave poles', etc. Or for obedience, maybe something along the lines of your movement in heel patterns? This type of goal setting makes it more likely you will succeed regardless of the outcome. And finally this(agility) quote is my favourite - it was posted to the Clean Run list a couple of years back and made by a US judge and competitor. She gave me permission to quote her in our club newsletter at the time so I'm sure she won't mind if I quote her again. 'When can you walk into the ring not caring about a Q, not caring about what other people think of you, not caring about being embarrassed in the ring? Are you willing to accept the blame for any mistakes and give full credit to your dog when things go well? When can you go into the ring with your best friend at your side, with the sole purpose of making sure your friend has the most fun they've ever had? Can you come out of the ring, no matter what happens, happy and smiling and thanking your dog for playing this game with you? Then....... you're ready' (Paige Port) Good Luck with your decision and don't let others influence in any way - YOU have to feel that you are ready before taking the plunge. And you're not alone - my 'baby' is making his agility debut in a couple of weeks and despite all the trialling experience I have with my other dog, I am still terrified at the thought ! Edited November 6, 2008 by kelpiechick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 Hey Kelpiechick, this is my other border that I am looking at doing obedience with. Brock may never get to an agility trial, lol. Good advice though! Poppy has only just turned 1 so I don't feel the need to rush. Have only just gone into the trial class so I would like to spend at least 6 months training in there but I am pretty cautious about these things. It was a judge that said she is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiechick Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Hey Kelpiechick, this is my other border that I am looking at doing obedience with. Brock may never get to an agility trial, lol. Good advice though! Poppy has only just turned 1 so I don't feel the need to rush. Have only just gone into the trial class so I would like to spend at least 6 months training in there but I am pretty cautious about these things. It was a judge that said she is ready. Hey, Brock will get there as I know you work hard with him - wait and see. I think you just answered your own question....... if you feel you are rushing in any way entering, then don't. Even though you have to bite the bullet sometime, the more mentally prepared you feel the more it will transfer to your dog IMO. And even a judge doesn't know your dog as well as you do. On the other hand, sometimes it's good to enter just once with no aspirations and expectations, but just to take it as a 'run through under pressure' to see where you are and what you need to fix. Is this your home club trial as I know you have one coming up? If so, something else to consider...... would you feel less nervous at a familiar ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 Yeah, home trial. Would actually feel more pressure! Would like to sneak off somewhere where no one knows me! But if I look at it as a 'training day' then that is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I think the more experience you get, the longer you leave it. If you seriously want to win a trial, you don't enjoy getting beaten by a point or two, with little things that could be easily fixed with time. I agree with Ness about training to UD, but I still find it hard to wait that long when the pup shows so much promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 DD its not hard to wait - well not when somebody threatens to beat you with a stick for even entertaining the idea of trialling too soon and when somebody keeps telling you they are worth saving . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 Yeah DD, I think this pup is gooodddd! First time around trialling I was happy just to pass. This time I want to do well. Ness people were hassling me about trialling from about 7 months. Mind you alot of people are getting Poppy mixed up with Brock and don't realise that she is a youngster. She works so nicely that they are assuming it is the older dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) about mixing them up somebody said geez your dog works well and I wish my dog would work that good. Only problem is I am not sure which dog they were talking about. I had Ness out for maybe 5 minutes or so but I also had Kenzie out . Kenzie's only real problem at the moment is that she occasionally thinks when she has done enough that she is able to self-reward by grabbing and tugging on my sleeve . Oh I have got one sure fire mechanism to keep people from telling me she is ready to trial and that is I haven't taught her how to stay as yet . Well ok she does but not for very long. More important things to teach. Edited November 6, 2008 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I personally will not necessarily wait till my pup has completed UD, I don't see any reason to hold them back if the are consistently getting high 190 scores in training run throughs (in my own mind), and are of mature mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 Ok I didn't ask for a score last night. Maybe I'll do that. We passed all the exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) But DD then what you pass Novice, Open quickly and the dog isn't ready for UD. Suppose you can keep trialling in open. I just think the way I am training heelwork is going to be the last behavior that I will have totally trained. Sure I could flog it now and I am sure she would quickly be at a level that could get her a 190 in Novice but there is so much else to teach and there is no race to get titles on your dog so whats the hurry. ETA. What is one judges 190 is another judges 180 etc etc. I also believe the new rules do make it easier for dogs to score higher then they have in the past. Especially having one heel pattern in novice. Looking at the marks rarely do I see novice dogs lose much for the COP/recall/SFE but most of the marks would be lost in the heelwork. So I guess what I am saying is that I wouldn't necessarily go on a score as such as a gauge as to whether my dog was ready to trial. Edited November 6, 2008 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 I've always quite liked the progression of training through the levels. Maybe because I've done dressage. ie I am CCD so I am working on this stuff, now I am CD so I am working on this etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PixieOfWrath Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Very interested in this thread, thank you for starting it. I have a 7 year old crossbreed girl, Holly, who performs all the exercises very nicely but I have absolutely no idea how she would go in a trial situation. I have never been in a trial either and have only watched one, so I can't apply much of my own experience in making a decision. We are doing lots of work on distraction and proofing at the moment and I am planning on entering a trial in December or January just to see how we go - no expectations, but to tell me what exactly I need to improve on within the trialling framework, even if it's just my own nerves - as someone said earlier, it would probably help even if I didn't get a qualifying score, just so I can see it isn't the end of the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 The only flaw in the progression as I see it is with the heelwork. Other than that I agree the exercises progress well. Or maybe its just that I think its unfair to ask a baby to heel for 2-3 minutes in perfect focus and I am aiming for at least double what you would get in the ring and under whatever distractions you might find at a trial. I think its something better not rushed as its the one behavior that once it falls a part is the hardest to fix (well from my observations). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PixieOfWrath Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I've always quite liked the progression of training through the levels. Maybe because I've done dressage. ie I am CCD so I am working on this stuff, now I am CD so I am working on this etc. I've had similar thoughts, but having read Ness' post, she is right too. I had planned to train and proof for CCD, aim to trial and achieve the three passes in as few trials as possible, then train and proof for CD, CDX etc. The heelwork isn't hugely different between the levels, is it? Aside from being offlead rather than on, the focus and performance needed to score highly is pretty similar, yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 The duration of the heelwork required can be longer at the higher levels but by the same token that depends on the judge. I have seen CCD and novice heel patterns that have been longer and more complex then open and even ud. But certainly the focus and performance is the same. I am having problems with my older girl at the higher level (she is trialling in UD) but being my first she was trained up for each level as we went. Her heelwork is the one thing that lets her down and prevents her from getting the top scores she is capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PixieOfWrath Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Thanks heaps Ness Very handy having people who can make mistakes for you and then warn you against making them yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now