Sit Stay Issues

[SpringerLass]

My 4 yo springer has a major issue with sit stays in obedience trialling. We can do the 1 minute sit stay at home and have had limited sucess at dog obedience classes from a range of distances but when it comes to trialling she breaks every time. It is getting very frustrating, given that she has achieved very good marks up untill the stays. I might add that she does the down stay no problems.

Anyone have any ideas? The biggest problem is that it is starting to become a habit at competitions.

[dogdude]

What's the reason for her breaking? When you can work that out, you can proof for it.

Much of the time at trials, its a focus issue. Retrain it with focus in mind for the CCD/Novice levels.

[Ptolomy]

The sit stay - ARGH - its so frustrating when your dog has put in some great ring work and then either drops or gets up in the sit stay.

Since the dog can do the 1 minute sit stay at home - do you think the issue is the different venues, or other dogs? When does the dog get up - as you leave, half way through, as you return?

You also say the dog can do the sit stay at home - what happens if you did a down stay first could it do a sit stay afterwards? If you put the dog in a sit stay at home and then went and pulled a few weeds in the garden - would the dog stay? If you rolled a ball or threw some toys would the dog stay - if you left the dog in a stay and then went and sat on the ground, would it stay? Or is it the fact that nothing is going on that causes the problem?

One of my kids breaks sit stays when he is sore - but the baby has a few stays issues so I know what you are going through.

[SpringerLass]

Im not sure the reason for the breaking. It may be a confidence thing. I can do a reliable sit stay (with other dogs around) for a distance of 3-4 meters. But when I push further out, ie trialling CCD distance she drops. She usually drops in the first 5 seconds I move away from her, but she stays in the lineup and the other dogs dont seem to phase her.

At home I have practised as many places as possible. Every park and oval around town, so its not just in the backyard where she can do it.

It seems like she is kinda saying "so what are you going to do about it" and of course I cant do or say anything. Have tried lots of postive re-inforcement when she does it right but so far that has not been in a trial.

P, I honestly havent tried some of the things you suggested. Will make that my next project. I like the idea of getting her to sit stay when I am gardening and generally moving around.

Dogdude, focus is always going to be the issue with a gun dog. Just to many birds out there! Saying that I have been doing alot of work on focus of late and seem to be getting somewhere.

Thanks for the suggestions and please keep them coming.

[Gamby]

Sits are a big problem with many dogs in the Obedience Ring. I have found that people who have issues with dogs that get up have not found the distance that the dog is uncomfortable with.

My suggestion is to go back to basics by only working the sit stay at obedience training in a ring situation.

Find out step by step how far you can go away from your dog before it gets up.

eg - Nose to knee, one step, two steps etc away from the dog. Until the dog is staying 10 times in a row then you can go the next step.

Do not add time and distance at the same time. If you are adding time make the distance shorter, or adding distance lesson the time until the dog is doing it 10 times in a row.

My training has been so bad over the last 13 1/2 years as I pushed and pushed my dogs to do an exercise. the dogs eventualy did it but in between time there were many times they didn't or wouldn't complete the exercise.

Do not include the whole exercise only work on the sit stays. The Return can be another exercise.

Once you find that, you can work on the distance. Do you use food/toy/cuddles for rewards.

Good Luck

Wendy

[The Spotted Devil]

Great advice from everyone as per usual!

One thing I always find myself asking is what your reaction is when the dog DOES break? This includes both intentional and non-intentional body language When I was initially teaching Ziggy the sit stay he was absolutely rock solid. Then he went through a stage of trying to predict what the next part of the exercise was and breaking - it was frustrating but I came to realise it was all part the learning process - even to the point where now I am not convinced he fully understands the exercise until we have been through that stage of him experimenting and me guiding. Anyway, the long and the short of it is that I don't take the mistakes seriously (ensures my body language and voice stays 'light') and just give a NRM and start again. For the first time in ages I did a group stay with Zig a few weeks ago at my new club - to my delight he was rock solid despite dogs breaking next to him. However, it was the responses of the handlers which was most interesting - the mixed messages they were sending to their dogs when they DID break reminded me how important this part of the exercise really is.

Good luck

ETA: SpringerLass I feel your pain.....focus is not exactly a common word in the Dalmatian vocabulary either

Edited November 5, 2008 by The Spotted Devil

[Lablover]

Add distractions and generalise everywhere. Maybe with a helper, who can stand in as a judge and steward. The stand in, can correct the dog. Correction will depend on the dog.

Small steps aiming for success every time.