Weeing In The House

[loveretrievers]

We have a new flat coated retriever. He's 12weeks this week. I know he's still quite small, but he's definately not a tiny boy.

I'm wondering if he's drinking too much water? He wees inside a lot, I can take him out, he goes, then comes inside in 5 mins wees again. I've read through the forums and most say, take them out every hour, after naps etc, and I do. This is way beyond anything I can keep up with though.

I would love to leave him somewhere safe to play, and if he wee'd in the house it would not matter, but this little master is so head strong. He doesn't give up. He will literally bark for hours if he's left. (no, he's not a pet shop puppy, but was a spoiled puppy ) He's never gotten ok in the crate, or laundry on the tiles. It's not been for lack of trying to get him crate trained. Hes been here almost 2 weeks, and were all so tired, I couldn't keep the kids up trying this anymore. He is though in the crate when I go out. I'm never out that long, but I leave him barking and I come back to him barking. He's pretty much worked himself up to a frenzy by then. Since I was home during the day, he pretty much follows me around all day. Just this weeing thing is driving me mad. I literally can take him out, then think ok, now we can go put some laundry in, and I turn around and he's gone again. I'm using vinegar and he's not going back to the same spots.

I've given up the crate at night, and night really isn't a problem. He sleeps beside the bed and he will sorta jump up and wake me when he wakes and I take him out, then back to bed. He really only goes out once at night now. Just during the day, I think with the clam outside and the water inside, he just wanders and drinks all day long. So I'm wondering, could he just possibly be drinking too much? It's not exactly hot in perth the past few days. Can I take his water up and give him a drink every hour then take him out? My partner and I haven't agreed too much on this, he seems to think I should take the water up and of course I've felt he should always have water there. My older dog just doesn't seem to drink that much or wee that much.

other than all the normal puppy mischief he's wonderful. This definately isn't a issue of it's got to be fixed or he's gone, just some advice please.

[Erny]

I would not restrict the water - IMO dogs should have free access to water throughout the day. It assist their cooling system and it isn't just to do with the warmth of the weather, it's to do with the exercise/running around they've been doing as well. My pup doesn't have water available overnight though, and in the early couple of weeks I did restrict the time for "last drinks". The weather was particularly cool and I took into account that there was quite a lot of water content from having soaked his dry food, so I wasn't concerned. Now he has water available to him right up until bed-time. But then not until morning.

In the initial weeks of my current pup coming home all I ever felt I did was clean up .... one after another after another. I'd no sooner be done with one (thinking it not likely to occur again inside that minute) than there'd be another spot to clean up. So I gave myself a dong on the head and took my own advice that I so often give others .... "be more vigilant". If I couldn't supervise because I was busy cleaning up a mess, he'd either go outside or I'd pop him in his crate for that small time.

There were times when him being outside was not possible, yet I couldn't be there the whole time. So he had the use of a crate to which I'd attached a puppy pen and layed down a waterproof tarp on the floor. Although I tried to manage it so that he did not need to soil there, at least if he did he wasn't building up on a substrate preference for soiling on the carpet (a preference I suspect he'd already semi-learnt before he came here, although in that I'm not sure).

I remember the first day there were no accidents inside I mentally celebrated, although I knew it was only because I'd been super vigilant - not because house training had occurred. BUT, that IS when house training actually did begin and from that point onwards it is markedly improving. Still need to remain vigilent though. Last night was the first time my pup actually barked to be let out of his pen for the purposes of going to the toilet. Boy! That was something that definitely earnt him a jackpot of rewards and praise .

You'll get there LR. You just need to be vigilant and to structure things in ways that suits what you do when you do it and that lead to your dog learning to prefer to go outside and feel the lawn/soil/whatever under his feet before he toilets.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Erny

[poodlefan]

The only reason your pup would be "drinking too much" is if he has a health issue. I'd be visiting the vet to discuss that before restricting his access to water.

Seems to me that most of the training occuring at the moment is the pup training you to get his own way. The basic rule for no accidents is that if you cannot supervise him, put him outside or in his crate. If you never leave him alone, he'll never get used to being alone. Even doing it for 5 minutes is a good thing. He should learn that being crated or left alone is no big deal and you can help him to tolerate time on his own by leaving him with boredom busting toys or treats. The fact that he's crying when you go and when you come home doesn't necessarily mean that he does it when you're gone. If you are making a big thing of coming and going, rest assured he will too. Also, put him in his crate when you are around. It could be in the corner of the lounge room and he can learn that it doesn't automatically mean he's going to be left alone. Feed him in it, give him treats in it, make a nice place for him to be.

I'll give you the same advice I give every puppy owner... when problems arise, look at YOUR actions before you find something wrong with the pup . He will be the product of the training you give him.

My vets rule of thumb is that every accident you allow him (that's right it's your fault if he toilets inside) will produce five more. You need to set a zero tolerance of your slip ups on this.

Edited November 4, 2008 by poodlefan

[loveretrievers]

Poodlefan, the issue here is not of lack of supervision. It's not a matter of the dog training us. It's not that he doesn't go in his crate everyday for short periods. I do not blame the dog OR myself. I do not think there is anything wrong with my puppy. I am talking about a puppy, not life or death so please chill out.

He is getting training, I promise he won't be a lifetime of dog troubles for people like you to get so upset about.

I've simply decided to not put him in the laundry or bathroom anymore cause I'm not even sure my partner has seen the damage behind the door just yet So when he needs to be left alone he goes in his crate, same time everyday usually has I have shchool runs. Twice a day actually! with a treat! Don't assume things. Don't assume that your advice is going to work for every family. He is a large breed puppy, and a retriever. They generally hate being left alone, I didn't get him with the intentions of leaving him hours at a time. He is considerably different to my shih tuz which is happy to sleep and be left alone, has been since she was a puppy. I don't think small breeds are as clingy as large breed dogs. That's just my opinion though, and from my own expierence with dogs. Can honestly say he's a very smart dog, and has learnt a lot and I believe that's from the time he's spent with us. I never got him with the intentions of him never having an accident. I didn't get him on a whim.

I just simply wanted to know if he could be drinking water just because it's there, not because he needs it. He doesn't seem to fit the usual, after a play, after a sleep, etc Just thought I would ask, not get accused of being a bad puppy owner by the training nazi.

[poodlefan]

You asked for advice because you were contemplating limiting your pups water intake. I gave it. So now I'm a nazi.

And YOU feel insulted. Please point me to the parts of my advice that call you a bad dog owner and accuse you of getting your dog on a whim...

Large dogs are clingier.. that's a new one.

Edited November 4, 2008 by poodlefan

[loveretrievers]

You asked for advice because you were contemplating limiting your pups water intake. I gave it. So now I'm a nazi.

And YOU feel insulted. Please point me to the parts of my advice that call you a bad dog owner and accuse you of getting your dog on a whim...

Large dogs are clingier.. that's a new one.

nahh you just basically jumped to conclusions and large dogs being more clingy, yes I said that was MY opinion, I did mention that. It's almost like you have that speech written down somewhere.

[poodlefan]

Whatever...

Have a nice life.

[BittyMooPeeb]

Poodlefan, the issue here is not of lack of supervision. It's not a matter of the dog training us. It's not that he doesn't go in his crate everyday for short periods. I do not blame the dog OR myself. I do not think there is anything wrong with my puppy. I am talking about a puppy, not life or death so please chill out.

....

not get accused of being a bad puppy owner by the training nazi.

Hi Loveretrievers,

You came on here asking for advice, and it is pretty poor form of you to respond to someone who has taken the time and effort to help you by making things personal and insulting the poster .

There are some good on-line resources on toilet training a pup, and I will post some links later. What Poodlefan has posted is a good summary of what you will find in current toilet training advice. I'm a foster carer and have had a lot of dogs come and go through my house, and so I can tell you from experience that the suggestions Poodlfan has posted work, and work more quickly than other menthods.

I also agree with PF that it sounds like your pup is setting the rules at the moment. This doesnt mean that there is anything wrong with you or with the pup, but that your current training method is not working. Your pup sounds like he is learning that if he kicks up a stink, he will get his own way, which is something you most likely dont want.

Here are some links.

http://www.nmhpkc.org/winograd/dogs/Puppy_Development.pdf

http://www.allpawsforward.com.au/uploads/6...et_Training.pdf

(btw, you should have a look at the forum rules, so that you dont continue to break them)

[Erny]

Loveretrievers .... that was a somewhat harsh and uncalled for response to PF and one for which IMO you owe PF an apology. Remember that this 'free' advice you seek is coming to you from over the internet, without opportunity from anyone to be able to observe your dog; your dog's relationship with you; or the layout of your home. Consequently, all anyone can do is provide you with thoughts, ideas and possibilities.

Perhaps it would be best if you arranged for a trainer/behaviourist to attend at your home. In that way there wouldn't be the educated guessing that is unavoidable when people seek help over the net.

If you let us know what area you're in, we will be able to try to help you by recommending a trainer/behaviourist for you to call?

Edited November 4, 2008 by Erny

[Steve]

I thought the advice given by poodle fan was pretty good even though you have now added some things to clarify.

You cant train a pup to do anything if you arent there on the spot to watch it and if you are not consistent.

If you cant watch it all the time you can try puppy training mats which you place near the door the pup will need to go out to do a wee.

These have a scent which attracts the pup to the mat and then when the pup is using the mat for a while if you take it away the pup will go to the spot each time which can clue you as to when it wants to wee.

I dont know how the pup is getting outside but if you are not taking it out on lead so it knows how to get there again and if you dont have a way for the pup to come and go when it wants it makes it all a bit harder.

Also you need to stand out there with it until it does a wee before you come back in so you can see that it goes and reward it when it does.

If you ever let it back in because its cried to do so it will be telling you what to do for ever.

Wait until it stops crying before you let it in.