Raw Food No Good For Pups?

[Nekhbet]

Dont chop and change diets - Just Midniara will be able to give you advice on what is the right combo for her dogs

as for vets not advocating raw - yes they do get lovely kickbacks from pet food companies. Its rubbish what they scare people into buying I never have touched Hills and refuse to. Also many dont know about raw diets and hence just tell you to buy what is off the shelf even if its not the best thing ultimately for the dog.

[Crisovar]

Dont chop and change diets - Just Midniara will be able to give you advice on what is the right combo for her dogs

as for vets not advocating raw - yes they do get lovely kickbacks from pet food companies. Its rubbish what they scare people into buying I never have touched Hills and refuse to. Also many dont know about raw diets and hence just tell you to buy what is off the shelf even if its not the best thing ultimately for the dog.

Please explain what these kickbacks are, maybe our clinic can arrange to get some of them.

[Jed]

I raise all my pups on raw food. They do have dry food too, but that is only because if owners go to work, they can leave the dry out for lunch for the pup. Otherwise, they wouldn't have dry food at all.

Of course vets make a profit by selling dry food - as any retailer does. However, it is not a huge amount. Few bucks a bag maybe. The main reason vets recommend dry or tinned food is because a lot of them know little about feeding dogs (true) - they are VETS, not nutritionists.

Also, they are concerned about people feeding raw, or cooked diets, and giving the dog a diet which is not balanced, and will cause problems later. Feeding raw does require some research and learning, so you don't get it wrong, and it is easier for a vet to recommend a complete and balanced dry food than to go in to all the ins and outs of raw feeding.

And good vets are concerned about the diet being unbalanced, so they recommend dry food, which, lets face it, thousands of dogs eat and do well on.

Properly feeding a raw diet does require some research and understanding. More than can be covered in a 15 minute vet consult.

I often advise people who come here asking about raw diets to do their own research, not be swayed by what others tell them - because they might not be right, and it will take years for the damage to become apparent.

[stormie]

Great post, Jed!

[aj88]

I was told by a vet that my Samoyed pup would get very sick as I fed him raw meat, apparently I should have him on Science Diet, and how wonderfully helpful he happened to have it all in stock too

Some people are just weird. I feed my dog exactly what the breeder feeds his dogs and Mistral is fine.

I always wonder at the attitudes of these vets, (i don't see this perticular guy anymore anyway) and I have wanted to ask how on earth did dogs manage to survive for so long without all that nice expensive food they peddle

its called evolution - Same with everything to do with animals/humans. They get used to eating something. Domesticated dogs have been eating 'dog food' for so long now that that is what is good for them now. Back when they were wild and they ate something bad for them - they died. Nowadays there are vets who help poor rover if he has eaten something bad

I work at a vet clinic and we dont stock dog food and we arent sponsored by any dog food companies. We dont tell breeders/pet owners to buy 'our food' to make money for us because we dont have any to actually sell to them we just order it in as it is needed (any brand that there is). If a dog needs a particular diet whether it be renal, dental, obesity or a puppy formula we will tell them all the different varieties off prescription diets available and different brands (cheaper or expensive whatever the cliet wants). Not all vets are just out to make money, some actually care.

As foor raw vs. dog food i personally have had all my pups on a puppy formula - it has all the nutrients they need, dont need to add anything. No way of getting an unbalanced diet because its all there in a little puppy biscuit!

I also find when pups get to much mince it messes with their digestive systems a bit and makes constipated little puppys

[aj88]

Dont chop and change diets - Just Midniara will be able to give you advice on what is the right combo for her dogs

as for vets not advocating raw - yes they do get lovely kickbacks from pet food companies. Its rubbish what they scare people into buying I never have touched Hills and refuse to. Also many dont know about raw diets and hence just tell you to buy what is off the shelf even if its not the best thing ultimately for the dog.

hmm yes - these kickbacks? We buy the food from the supplier then we sell it to the owner and wow we might get 10bucks max. Woooop di doooo. Yes all vets and vet parctices are only selling food to make money, not a single vet cares about the welfare of the animal all they care about is a nice fat pay cheque at the end of the day.

I would really like to know why people think this?

[addicted2kelpies]

I have fed my dogs from puppies on a mix of dry and raw. I try and stay away from tinned food as the dogs smell really bad when they have eaten that stuff. Bones a couple times a week are great because not only does it keep their teeth in good shape it make cleaning up afer them a breeze.

[Bjelkier]

I was told by a vet that my Samoyed pup would get very sick as I fed him raw meat, apparently I should have him on Science Diet, and how wonderfully helpful he happened to have it all in stock too

Some people are just weird. I feed my dog exactly what the breeder feeds his dogs and Mistral is fine.

I always wonder at the attitudes of these vets, (i don't see this perticular guy anymore anyway) and I have wanted to ask how on earth did dogs manage to survive for so long without all that nice expensive food they peddle

its called evolution - Same with everything to do with animals/humans. They get used to eating something. Domesticated dogs have been eating 'dog food' for so long now that that is what is good for them now. Back when they were wild and they ate something bad for them - they died. Nowadays there are vets who help poor rover if he has eaten something bad

I work at a vet clinic and we dont stock dog food and we arent sponsored by any dog food companies. We dont tell breeders/pet owners to buy 'our food' to make money for us because we dont have any to actually sell to them we just order it in as it is needed (any brand that there is). If a dog needs a particular diet whether it be renal, dental, obesity or a puppy formula we will tell them all the different varieties off prescription diets available and different brands (cheaper or expensive whatever the cliet wants). Not all vets are just out to make money, some actually care.

As foor raw vs. dog food i personally have had all my pups on a puppy formula - it has all the nutrients they need, dont need to add anything. No way of getting an unbalanced diet because its all there in a little puppy biscuit!

I also find when pups get to much mince it messes with their digestive systems a bit and makes constipated little puppys

What on earth does evolution have to do with anything? Just because dogs are accustomed to something does not mean it is the best thing for them.

In that theory then all dogs that are on raw food now, after their ancestors have been brought up on commercial food (and commercial dog food has not been around for that long at all), are not as healthy as a dog on commercial food?

I would just like to state that my pup has always eaten raw meat and never had a problem, the only time he got sick was after eating tin food.

And I didn't say every vet was like this, I said vets who do peddle food and push it on people for no reason.

[Miss B]

as for vets not advocating raw - yes they do get lovely kickbacks from pet food companies. Its rubbish what they scare people into buying I never have touched Hills and refuse to. Also many dont know about raw diets and hence just tell you to buy what is off the shelf even if its not the best thing ultimately for the dog.

Please explain what these kickbacks are, maybe our clinic can arrange to get some of them.

Yes, I'd love to know too, 'cos if there are kickbacks on offer my clinic certainly doesn't receive them

[Nekhbet]

hasnt anyone seen the dinners, vouchers, stock discounts, merchandise, side deals etc that go with some companies?

must have just been my old boss then.

[poodlefan]

Domesticated dogs have been eating 'dog food' for so long now that that is what is good for them now.

I think you'll find that domesticated dogs have been eating "dog food" for less than 150 years.

I don't consider cereal by-product to be the best basis for a dog's diet any more than I think MacDonalds is the best basis for a human diet. The fact that dogs or humans may be eating more of some newer style of food these days than another more traditional diet doesn't make it good for them.

A raw diet won't suit every dog... but the idea that we've fundamentally changed a dog's digestive system in 150 years to make it able to digest cellulose is pure bunk.

Dogs have a carnivores teeth and digestive system just like they've always had.

Edited November 3, 2008 by poodlefan

[Jed]

aj88

its called evolution - Same with everything to do with animals/humans. They get used to eating something. Domesticated dogs have been eating 'dog food' for so long now that that is what is good for them now

And, of course, you have references you can quote for the above statement?

Edited November 3, 2008 by Jed

[Miss B]

hasnt anyone seen the dinners, vouchers, stock discounts, merchandise, side deals etc that go with some companies?

must have just been my old boss then.

Erm, no.

Every now and again Hills will give away a free mug or a pair of slippers with any purchase of Science Diet or Prescription Diet. Not something I'd consider a kickback for the clinic, all that free merch goes straight to the client.

[Jed]

Poodlefan

I think you'll find that domesticated dogs have been eating "dog food" for less than 150 years.

Correct me if I am wrong (and I know you will), but I don't believe that dry dog food, or kibble was around pre 1970s, nor was canned dog food. I am quite sure that prepared dog food was not available in Australia in 1950s and 1960s.

So 30 odd years.

[poodlefan]

Poodlefan

I think you'll find that domesticated dogs have been eating "dog food" for less than 150 years.

Correct me if I am wrong (and I know you will), but I don't believe that dry dog food, or kibble was around pre 1970s, nor was canned dog food. I am quite sure that prepared dog food was not available in Australia in 1950s and 1960s.

So 30 odd years.

First prepared dog food was a biscuit sold in the UK in the 1860's Jed. Canned horse meat was available by WWI but it was the USA cereal mills looking to use their by-product that really got it going.

Yeech what do people think Nabisco, Quaker Oats and Purina's main business was? Quicky potted history of dog food below.

Before the advent of pet foods, most dogs and cats lived off of grains, meats, table scraps and homemade food from their owners. It wasn’t until the mid-1800’s that the world saw its first food made specifically for dogs. An American electrician, James Spratt concocted the first dog treat. Living in London at the time, he witnessed dogs around a ship yard eating scraps of discarded biscuits. A light bulb went off in his head and shortly thereafter he introduced his dog food, made up of wheat meals, vegetables and meat. His company flourished and by 1890 he was taken over by a large corporation and production had begun in the United States as well.

But it wasn’t until the early 1900’s that pet food really caught on. Canned horse meat was introduced in the United States under the Ken-L-Ration brand after WWI as a means to dispose of deceased horses. The 1930’s saw the introduction of canned cat food and dry meat-meal dog food by the Gaines Food Co. During WWII metal used for cans was set aside for the war effort, which nearly ruined the canned pet food industry. But by the time WWII ended, pet food was off and running again, and sales had reached $200 million. For companies such as Nabisco, Quaker Oats, and General Foods, pet food represented an opportunity to market by-products as a profitable source of income. The number one benefit was convenience, and with the economy booming, people could now afford the luxury of pet food. At first, canned pet food was the primary type sold, but by 1956 the first extruded pet foods were hitting store shelves. Extrusion is the process by which pet foods are formed into pellets, and then sprayed with synthetic nutrients to compensate for nutrition lost during processing.

Success continued throughout the 60’s and 70’s as companies began to diversify flavors and refine the extrusion technology. The 80’s saw the introduction of ailment-specific diets such as those offered by Hill’s Pet Nutrition. Since then, many “innovations” have been introduced by other companies including natural pet foods, semi-moist, vacuum-packed, frozen, freeze-dried, and breed-specific pet foods. The pet food industry has grown to $15 billion in annual sales, dominated by multi-national corporations such as Heinz and Nestle

Edited November 3, 2008 by poodlefan

[Jed]

I am surprised. (I knew you'd tell me). There was NO canned or dried dog or cat food where I lived (major city) until the 70s. Maybe it was available, but retailers didn't stock it. I remember we all fell on it, proclaimed it the greatest thing since .....!! The dry food was horrible rubbish, and there was only one variety of canned food. The dogs hated it, but we persisted, coz it was good for them.

Maybe US, with a much bigger population, had processed foods long before they caught on in Aust? Maybe it was available in Sydney, but I know it wasn't available in Melbourne or Brisbane - or Perth, come to that, until 1970s.

[poodlefan]

My guess is that processed dog food took off here later Jed. No idea when the first Australian made dog food was produced.

[Cavandra]

Crap.

Evolution

What a hoot. Funniest thing I've read for ages.

I am gunna roll about with you Jed

[Cavandra]

My guess is that processed dog food took off here later Jed. No idea when the first Australian made dog food was produced.

Not very long ago.........I believe it began in war time during Depression period, they swept up the old human biscuits from factories & bagged them up & sold them cheap to ppl to help feed their animals when things were tough & everything was utilised........It was discovered that it was a great idea to make money afterwards, and they develpoded it into the multi billion dollar industry it is today, and is now the very cause of so many problems for alot of dogs , ranging from Canine Candida to Aggression

[Nekhbet]

clinics will be going through Lyppards or other suppliers for their dog foods ... check out the catalogues as well as when the reps come in from the companies. There is a lot on offer from both drug suppliers and dog food companies to keep vets 'loyal' as it were.