Nekhbet Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I know it isnt Georgie boy but some people use it in castrations especially if they cannot get the dog to settle or want it done without a general anaesthetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I have never witnessed a castration done without a general, ever! I have however seen apparently healthy animals die suddenly, during a normal, smooth procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 That's really scary and so sad. I see the point about not desexing, why take a risk when it's not essential? Poor little guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavandra Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 It is very rare! There is a high rate of problems in this area, the common denominator is they all attend the same surgery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 The first vet I worked at ages ago used domitor for cat castrations, no other anaesthetic (no gaseous general). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboyz Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Thanks for the replies all. I have sent a link to the thread to the owners, in case they wanted more information. Of course nothing will bring him back though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 The first vet I worked at ages ago used domitor for cat castrations, no other anaesthetic (no gaseous general). I have never seen a vet give a cat in for castration a general anyway. The procedure for a cat is far less complicated than it is to castrate a dog (or human). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greytdog Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 The vet I did work experience with many years ago left a dog unconscious on the table whilst he went and conducted a job interview. This was a LONG time ago admittedly, but I think he still practices (not that I'd go near him with a 10' barge pole). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Is there any way the ivermectin and anaesthesia agents could have reacted, causing heart failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory the Doted One Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 (edited) check what they used as a premed (I hope not Dormitor )check they actually used a general anaesthetic check they had his vital stats before he went it Dogs hearts dont just stop. Hopefully they didnt leave the gas turned up too high after induction and forgot to turn it down. In all the time I've spent at vet clinics you would be suprised when the vet goes 'oops tell the owner X instead' Ditto. Seen this too. That's one reason I left Vet Nursing. ETA...It might not bring him back, but it might give them some peace of mind and closure. If it was me, I'd be asking a lot of questions and asking to see his vital charts. (which they could fill in later admittedly..but I'd still ask for all avaialble data relevant to my dog.) Edited October 29, 2008 by Dory the Doted One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Sad & very rare when you consider how many are done. The dog is only out for a very short time & human error or underlying condition is the usual cause. Allergy is possible, I know a person who died because they were allergic to the anaesthetic,but that is rare too. Can they request an autopsy ? Maybe by another vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 That's why i wont desex my dogs because too many excuses are made as not many people want to take responsibilty or the care. Speaking of excuses Our dogs have a much higher chance of dying by escaping and being hit on the road or being invoolved in some sort of accident around the house/poisoned by snail bait/suffering bloat etc. I think we need to be aware of the very small risks associated with these straight forward procedures but shouldn't be using it as a sole excuse not to get the dog desexed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 check what they used as a premed (I hope not Dormitor )check they actually used a general anaesthetic check they had his vital stats before he went it Dogs hearts dont just stop. Hopefully they didnt leave the gas turned up too high after induction and forgot to turn it down. In all the time I've spent at vet clinics you would be suprised when the vet goes 'oops tell the owner X instead' Domitor is not a premedicant. Medetomodine can be and is used as a premed. It is generally a safe drug to use in young, healthy animals and has the advantage of having a reversing agent, as well providing analgesia. Obviously there are better alternatives, but it is no less a premed than ACP or valium. 5.1 Indications for useSedation and analgesia to facilitate handling of animals during various examinations and procedures. Anaesthetic premedication. Anesthesia: Domitor is suitable for use as an anesthetic premedication, e.g. with thiobarbiturate-halothane anaesthesia. Domitor potentiates the effect of anesthetics, and thus their dosage should be decreased up to 50 - 90 %, depending on the individual case. The anesthetic agent should not be administered earlier than 10 min after Domitor premedication. It's about 1 in 10,000 that die during routine surgery. Animals hearts can just stop if there is an underlying condition. I would be surprised if an animal's heart suddenly stopped because the gas was left up too high. It would likely stop breathing before it's heart stopped in which case someone should/would have checked the basics to make sure everything was ok. It's possible the soda lime in the anaesthetic machine had expired, but again, you would likely see other warning signs before the heart eventually stopped. If the owners are concerned, then they should request a copy of the anaesthetic record and also request an autopsy, baring in mind it may show nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I would be surprised if an animal's heart suddenly stopped because the gas was left up too high. nope. If the vet or nurse (if one is even present) is not paying attention it is easy for a young dog to slip away. Dormitor - cat castrations, rabbit castrations I've even seen kitten speys on dormitor It works by constricting the blood vessels, raising the blood pressure hence lowering heart rate. It can also cause an irregular heartbeat and in susceptible animals the heart can stop from the strain. Thats why I dont like Dormitor, never have never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I would be surprised if an animal's heart suddenly stopped because the gas was left up too high. nope. If the vet or nurse (if one is even present) is not paying attention it is easy for a young dog to slip away. Dormitor - cat castrations, rabbit castrations I've even seen kitten speys on dormitor It works by constricting the blood vessels, raising the blood pressure hence lowering heart rate. It can also cause an irregular heartbeat and in susceptible animals the heart can stop from the strain. Thats why I dont like Dormitor, never have never will. Well, I guess different vets use different drugs, but domitor is a perfectly acceptable premed. I'm not a fan of it either, I hate how it slows the heart, but to say it is not a premed is incorrect. It's not something we use on cat or rabbit castrations, in fact we rarely use it at all these days, but like I said, different vets use different drugs. And like I said, the heart could stop if the gas was left up high, but generally only after breathing has stopped first. And it would be a pretty incompetent vet and nurse combination to not notice any of the warning . But I guess some clinics don't have basic monitoring and alert machines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgie-boy Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Well, I guess different vets use different drugs, but domitor is a perfectly acceptable premed. I'm not a fan of it either, I hate how it slows the heart, but to say it is not a premed is incorrect. My apologies. I am well aware of what Domitor is and how it works. Perhaps I should have stated that Domitor is not a widely or commonly used premedicant. I certainly don't know of any vets who use it for anything other than sedation. But once again - I apologise - my statement, such as it was, was incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Well, I guess different vets use different drugs, but domitor is a perfectly acceptable premed. I'm not a fan of it either, I hate how it slows the heart, but to say it is not a premed is incorrect. My apologies. I am well aware of what Domitor is and how it works. Perhaps I should have stated that Domitor is not a widely or commonly used premedicant. I certainly don't know of any vets who use it for anything other than sedation. But once again - I apologise - my statement, such as it was, was incorrect. No need to apologise. Funnily though, I have my notes here from a recent anaesthetic workshop with Colin Dunlop - the surgery its from was a couple of years ago but he used it as a premed on a hock repair on a healthy 1yo. Might mention it to him next time I see him and see what his current opinion on it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboyz Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 This had me thinking: if a council decided to regulate for mandatory desexing and a dog died during the operation - should the council be responsible for compensation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 what drugs should be used for and what some vets use them for are different things sometimes. I dont like watching rabbits wake up on dormitor, I had 2 rabbits done and I was VERY unhappy with the fact they couldnt use their hind legs for a few hours. The vet waved it off. Same vet who hated giving any cat castration/spey any meloxicam injection to help with the pain because of the risk it had on their kidneys - better to watch them squeal in pain for a bit then suffer supposed kidney failure apparently. good question badboyz. Probably not, unless the council mandated that all desexings were done at certain recommended vets. If you go to any vet then they would just say 'well its up to you to make sure you're happy with the service from your veterinarian and they are properly skilled' etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 In four years of desexing approx 800 rescue dogs we've not lost one YET. I expect that at some point I will because I know that it happens but IMO its not an excuse to not desex a dog that you don't need to show or breed from. pssst - work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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