Under The Circumstances, What's Best?

[InspectorRex]

I agree with the others- a blood test is a MUST for all dogs 6mths or over for heartworm prevention regardless of what you wish to use.

[Erny]

Thanks guys. Then I have 3 weeks to make a decision about which preventative medication I'm to give.

[InspectorRex]

Good onya Erny.

[Leema]

Next 'vet check' for my dogs, I am getting them heartworm tested and then onto a form of 'preventative'. Mostly due to reading the story here:

http://www.dogaware.com/HeartwormPrevention.html

Remember that any heartworm 'preventative' is killing immature heartworm in the dogs' system that have occurred since last infection. So that means you only have to treat when the weather has been conductive of heartworm, and you are in an area of risk. (I'm sure you are aware, the temperature has to be about 14C for two weeks for heartworm to develop - so you only need to dose after such a weather event.)

Apparently, heartworm preventatives can be given 45 days apart with no reduction in effectiveness.

[Erny]

I'm sure you are aware, the temperature has to be about 14C for two weeks for heartworm to develop - so you only need to dose after such a weather event.

No - I wasn't aware of that. Thank you Leema. But 14C ??? That's pretty cold for mozzies isn't it?

[Erny]

Interesting article, Leema .... thank you .

Haven't finished reading it through yet, but found this part of particular interest :-

Milbemycin oxime, the active ingredient in Interceptor, has been approved by the FDA at one-fifth the regular dosage to kill heartworms only, without controlling intestinal parasites, including roundworms, whipworms and hookworms. Novartis has a product, "Safeheart", with this lowered dosage of milbemycin, but has not yet marketed it.

Oh .... and I understand now that the temperature needs to be 14C or warmer continuously for two weeks. In otherwords, day and night. Although I do note the variation that can occur in sheltered areas around the home (eaves, etc.)

Still reading ..............

Edited October 26, 2008 by Erny

[Crest_Fallen]

Wow this is interesting reading. I tend not to use flea prevention (especially the spot ons) unless there is a flea problem as I also don't see the point in overloading their systems with chemicals if the problem doesn't exist in the first place. And the warnings on the spots on says it is poisonous to people so what does that say we are doing to our pets?

For heartworm, I want to see if I can get hold of the daily one too and will start on this before my puppy is 6 months old.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

For what it's worth, we used to use preventive topical flea prevention - think it was Frontline? We stopped, what made us think about it was that our Afghan HATED it being applied. And the fact that the packet said not to get it on yourself made me think twice.

We have not had any problems since with fleas, if we do get a problem I will deal with it then.

With Heartworm, I am not going to give the yearly injection to my new pup but will stick with oral treatment during summer. This thread has been really useful food for thought. Thanks Erny.

[Leema]

I'm sure you are aware, the temperature has to be about 14C for two weeks for heartworm to develop - so you only need to dose after such a weather event.

No - I wasn't aware of that. Thank you Leema. But 14C ??? That's pretty cold for mozzies isn't it?

Sorry, that should've been - the temperature has to be ABOVE 14C for two weeks. So you can pretty much not treat for heartworm over winter.

Glad the article was of use, but it's only one of many on the 'net regarding the weather component of heartworm... And all say slightly different things.

[New Age Outlaw]

In regards to the above, the Vet informed me that a heartworm blood test isn't needed when using Revolution because it is "safe".

I think what they mean is that other heartworm products will cause bad reactions if used in animals already infected with the worms. Revolution is a different chemical and doesn't create that reaction - if used in an animal that already has heartworm Revolution will actually begin to kill the worms (you probably still need other treatment though). The idea is that there is around a 6 month window between infection and getting a positive test result. Therefore, if there is any doubt about the dog's potential exposure to heartworm, Revolution is at least safe to use if the dog does prove to be infected. I hope that makes at least some sense.

ETA I personally would still do the heartworm test after 6 months. That way if it is negative you can change to other methods of prevention if you want to.

Edited October 26, 2008 by New Age Outlaw

[Erny]

Revolution is a different chemical and doesn't create that reaction - if used in an animal that already has heartworm Revolution will actually begin to kill the worms (you probably still need other treatment though).

But isn't that the point, NAO? I mean, if the animal is already infected with heartworm and if Revolution does begin to kill the worms, isn't it the worms dying and rotting (yes, there's a better scientific/technical name for this but I can't remember it) within the heart that causes the problem?

[~Anne~]

Erny, a six month old pup hasn't been alive long enough to have adult heartworm living in the heart and there is no need to test. If the dog has picked up heartworm, it would be at the juvenile stage which are called microflaire and these live in the blood stream. The heartworm preventatives will kill microflaire.

I use Sentinel Spectrum. It does heartworm, fleas and intestinal worms. I dose every 6 weeks (it is a monthly preparation which is protective for up to 45 days). Sentinel does not kill fleas, but rather, it sterilises them and so it really is only suitable for situations where you have fleas elimanated. It prevents any fleas that do come in touch with your dog from laying fertile eggs and multiplying.

In the cases where a dog comes to me with fleas, I give them capstar. The Capstar kills the fleas on the dog. I dose with Sentinel at the same time to stop the cycle. On the odd occassion I have had to give Capstar in a follow up dose 7 days later to kill remaining fleas.

[The Spotted Devil]

Hi Erny

I hope I can clear this up for you - it's to do with the life cycle of the heart worm. The mosquito caries the microfilaria (the tiniest version)....when they are at the 3rd stage of larval development they are infective and are transferred to the dog via bite....the larvae live in the tissue for 3-4 months before migrating to the heart to mature. These mature worms produce microfilariae which circulate in the bloodstream......which infect the mosquito when it bites....and so it goes on. For treatment, you rely on adulticides and filaricides which treat the mature and immature worms respectively. You have to do this slowly (esp the adulticide) because the only way out for the dead worms is via the pulmonary artery towards the lungs.

The preventative monthly treatment is the filaricide, so you are killing off any heart worm larvae before they reach the heart. Does that make sense, or even answer your question?

ETA: *snap* PRS! I also use Sentinel Spectrum monthly.

Edited October 26, 2008 by The Spotted Devil

[New Age Outlaw]

Thanx Spotted Devil - you explained that better than I could!

[noisymina]

Erny, I sometimes cringe when I read/hear about all the chemicals pushed into dogs. I realise there's some areas/times when it's necessary to use treatments but month after month of chemicals pushed into the system must have some adverse reactions.

So question - not being smart or anything - but why is it done? You will hear people say "my dog has never had a flea because he's dosed up with 'whatever'. How do they know they'd have fleas if they didn't dose? My old Vet. agreed with this and untypically explained to clients that unless they actually had a problem, it's not necessary to use anything.

When Kaisie came here at 4 years old, she was already on the annual heartworm injections. Which I then continued until this year. Then I put her on monthly chewables instead. She will be 10 years old July next year!

At the same time, I also decided to forget the annual vaccinations - as she is not a show dog and does not usually come in close contact with other dogs etc. So why the chemicals etc. ?

All our previous dogs were vaccinated for the first year or two and that was all. None of them came down with anything contagious. So, for us, the risk seems minimal - just going on experience.

To be honest, I think she is "happier" now. Her coat is excellent, she has a new lease on life. I really think that stuff is a load on their system.

We do worm for intestinal worms every three months.

I had a dog along time ago before Heartworm prevention was available. She was treated for it successfully - but it is pretty rough on them. One other dog I knew that came down with it actually turned quite viscous. He might have been like that anyway, but personally, I don't think the heartworm helped. So, in spite of the chemical load, I do think heatrworm prevention is desirable. However, I have heard of dogs contracting it in spite of the prevention tablets. Thus, I would be rather doubtful about any "spot on" treatment - as you just don't know if the right dose is getting through.

We have never used flea prevention treatment. Seldom have seen fleas - actually, not at all at this house until recently. And it is usually the cats that attract them. So we just put flea collars on all the animals, wash the bedding etc religiously etc until they seem to have been "beaten", then back to nothing except for new collars for the cats about once a year. And that is mainly because we need something to hang their bells from!

[Miranda]

I don't give any of my dogs monthly treatments, why give your dog chemicals that probably aren't necessary, I really think these products were produced for the convenience of the owners rather than the long term health of the dogs.

I use Heartgard during the summer months only and would never give a heartworm injection, I treat with Advantage if I have a flea problem (and that's very rarely) and worm with an all wormer 3 or 4 times a year. I give C3 puppy vaccs and a booster at 16 months and that's it for life.

I try to keep chemicals to a minimum when dealing with my dogs and so far this regime has worked for me.

[poodlefan]

My guys get monthly heartworm tablets (Pro Heart). They hate any chewables. They get done for intestinal worms 3 monthly and that's it for bugs.

I've had to flea treat them once in 10 years.

For tick time (which isn't often) I use the Proban tablets. They don't need them regularly.

[Erny]

I have received a response back from Dr. Jean Dodds (she is so good in giving her time and responding promptly and by this post I extend my warm thanks, as this is not the only query I've had cause to make to her).

I have acknowledged to Dr. Jean that I realise there are no guarantees in life (save for taxes) and so advice I take from her is merely calculated educated risks. I know you are interested in what she tells me so I reiterate it here.

Dr. Jean has said she does not prefer selamectin (I think this is the ingredient in Revolution - not sure if it is in other spot-ons) for parasite prevention/control, as apparently this potent drug has no effective antedote.

As I am in a heartworm risk area and given the mozzies have come out, she has suggested either plain daily Dimmitrol [available again over internet] or plain monthly Heartgard or Interceptor given every 45 days -- not every 30 days. Apparently published studies from France have shown that these products fully protect against exposures in the prior 45 days. The only potential problem with this schedule is writing down when the next dose is due -- start at beginning of one month and repeat half way into the next month etc.

I think the above agrees with what most of you are already doing and it will be the protocol that I too will follow. I haven't yet decided what I'm likely to best remember to give. Daily Dimmitrol ( I have trouble remembering to take my own thyroid meds, although knowing me I'll remember better on behalf of my dog than I do for myself ), or the Heartgard every 45 days. It might have been said (or perhaps I recall it being mentioned in Dr. Jean's link article I put up .... will have to re-read) but what is the period of grace (if any) that you have if you do forget to give either the Dimmitrol or the Heartgard?

In my email to Dr. Jean I informed her that I have not and am not experiencing a flea or mite problem (touch wood) and therefore proposed that I do not believe I need to treat for that. Dr. Jean didn't object to that philosophy.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and suggestions and I know that what has been discussed here will be found to be helpful by those who read.

Cheers!

Erny

Edited October 27, 2008 by Erny

[InspectorRex]

Dr Dodds is a wealth of info that is for sure.

I would go with the Daily Dimmitrol,We use the 200mg tablets and that covers weight range from 15-39kgs so will be easier as Mandela grows because if you buy the monthly tabs you will have to alter dosages as he grows.

It is easy to remember.I have the Dimmitrol jar sitting next to the Dog dishes so when I get their tea ready The Jar is looking me in the face so so speak.

[New Age Outlaw]

As I am in a heartworm risk area and given the mozzies have come out, she has suggested either plain daily Dimmitrol [available again over internet] or plain monthly Heartgard or Interceptor given every 45 days -- not every 30 days. Apparently published studies from France have shown that these products fully protect against exposures in the prior 45 days.

I assume that would also work with Sentinel Spectrum (given that it is the same as Interceptor but with the addition of lufenuron).