Thoughts

[glorybea]

I all you seasoned triallers

one of my dogs is VERY insecure in her out of sight stays -- all ideas will be greatfully accepted ,I have taken her out of trials until problem solved

I HOPE !!!!!

thank you Glorybea

[Erny]

Need more info on how you began the transition to out of sight stays (OSS) including what method of training you have used for it and for your "in sight" stays (ISS).

What distance are you from her at the point where you 'disappear' ?

Also, how solid were her ISS at the time you began transition to OSS, and to what distance were her ISS?

Edited October 25, 2008 by Erny

[glorybea]

Hi Erny.

Rani has her Novice Title

I am not going to say I have tried this and that in a negative way I am open to all suggestions I have tried several suggestions will state them so you can see where we are coming and going so to speak

tried going short distances - returning- feed -leave

say stay take -couple steps - look back re enforce command -which has helped

patting using soothing talk before leaving again on return

at the end of stays she aways gets a terrific treat drumstick/neck

I am sure it is just separating anxiety which I think the fact we where in a training stay

{IN NOVICE] when a Dalmation jumped over her towards a G/S and I had to grab her now I leave her alone in a stay ?? so why wouldn't she be anxious !!

thank you for replying I appriecate your help Glorybea I don't remember if I told you she is a Malt /shuh

[Erny]

What is her maximum 'comfortable' distance at an ISS?

What distance is it that you get to when she breaks at an OSS?

Your idea of "short distance" might not be my idea of it, so if you could give me a visual by guessing the distance in metres might help.

[glorybea]

Hi Erny, her comfort zone is inconsistant mostly will let me walk 2 steps then follows ,lately I have got a occasionally sit OSS but the drop "always" follows. It has started to come out in drop on recall when I leave .

Glorybea

[glorybea]

Erny Iforgot to tell you when she breaks her OSS she only come forward 1/2 metre and sit /drops never leaves ring or goes further seems to registar she must stay

Glorybea

[Erny]

Hi Erny, her comfort zone is inconsistant mostly will let me walk 2 steps then follows ,lately I have got a occasionally sit OSS but the drop "always" follows. It has started to come out in drop on recall when I leave .

Glorybea

Hi Glorybea ....

First clue here is that she is not sufficiently solid enough in her ISS to be able to progress to OSS, IMO. And you need to have the ISS's solid for a considerably longer distance than you have at the moment. Avoid working up distance too quickly. Work up time and distraction and then distance and distraction.

When (and only when) you achieve solid ISS's and have proofed them under distraction with distance, then proceed to OSS's. When you begin the OSS's, remain out of sight for only a quick second (eg. walking around and behind a largish tree trunk and straight back into sight again.) Have your dog at at least half the distance (in fact even closer) than what she can cope with in stays when you're in sight, for your initial out of sight exercises. Build up the time you are out of sight in small increments.

Giving her 'feedback' by returning to her and giving low level praise (so as to not have her break) as you are doing is good. Frequency of returning goes hand in hand with how she is able to cope with time and distance.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Erny

[prodigybxr]

Glory,

Another suggestion, which helped me with Mia- is to have someone other than yourself, to go back periodically to re-enforce the position. I had someone go back and feed. Starting gradual, with ISS. Ie: you take 2 or 3 steps and the other person rewards her holding her position, then build on that until you then go out of sight.

Rani and Mia both don't like the seperation element of Out of Sights- and I found this method took 'the heat' off me.

[glorybea]

THANK YOU THANK YOU !!

she is withdrawn from trials will give her a break then do as you have suggested "slow and easy wins the race " I will keep you posted .

thanks again Cheers Glorybea

[The Spotted Devil]

Obviously you want to avoid her breaking her stays in the first place.....however, it might be worth thinking about what your response is when she does break. Not just what you say but your body language....it may be exacerbating the problem

Best of luck and congrats on your other results

[dogdude]

I found that the problem with the transition to OSS when teaching it, was that it is very hard to give a non reward marker at the appropriate time from a distance.

I fixed my dog by setting him up using the corner of a building, or wall of some kind.

Sit the dog facing away from you right on the corner, so that you can almost stand right behind her on the angle without her seeing you, and stay very quiet. She will get used thinking you are still very close, without actually seeing you, and may help overcome the sense of being alone. When she gains confidence that you are not "leaving her", you can then build on it slowly with distance.

Just be prepared to take backward steps for any relapses.

ETA: I'm not one for trying to avoid the dog breaking at all costs during the learning stage. Every wrong choice is a learning opportunity for the dog. "Wrong is good".

Edited October 26, 2008 by dogdude