free Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I have a GSD nearly two years old that will (when off lead) run up to someone and stand about 1/2 metre away with her bristles up, head down and barking with a little bit of growling. Each time this happens she's getting closer and closer to the poor random people. I'm worried that one day she may have a go at someone. After she has a couple of barks she will always come back when called with her tail wagging. I'm not sure how i would go about correcting this behaviour; obviously don’t let her of the lead but what if she gets out of the fence. I have been at my new rental property for 6 months now and this is when i have really started to notice this problem getting worse. All day she runs up and down the fence chasing people that are walking along the footpath. I'm thinking this is the problem, the people keep walking away so she thinks she has 'fought them off' thus rewarding the behaviour. Any ideas on how to fix this would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Never let her off lead you are so lucky you have not been reported and the council have rocked up on your door It is incredibly negligent of you to let her anywhere near people off lead. SHe is totally in control of her situations and so DO NOT LET HER. She needs training, stimulation and exercise. Get yourself a professional NOW to fix this problem and to have her properly assessed. Someone may have tried to break into your property as well and now she is on high alert. Still this is not a problem for the internet this needs a consultation ASAP. Which area are you in, we can make recommendations or may trainers here have contact numbers in their signatures if you see one close to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Agree with Nekhbet. See a behaviourist ASAP and DO NOT LET HER OFF LEAD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 Ok, one, i do not let her off the lead after she had done this for the third time. I suppose i worded myself incorrectly to let you guys think i just let her run wild. I am also in the middle of doing the NDTF course but I need direction on how to go about the problem, not comments saying ‘don’t let her off’ I know that. I’ve thought maybe if I had someone I could use as a target that I new but the dog didn’t and had her on the long line, but thought maybe she would think the punishment came from the target??? Professional dog trainers cost money….. I was hoping to get options.... She gets walked every day and goes out with me all weekend to run free on 60 arces with other dogs, whom she gets along with fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 For this sort of problem, a professional is really what you need. The internet is great but for serious problems you need someone to come in and help you. If you let us know your location (approx, city is fine) then we can recommend someone. Yes they cost money but it is definitely worth it, they will be able to see what is going on and give you some methods to deal with it. We cannot see what she is doing and how she is acting. It is not a failure to go to a behaviourist, many people, myself included, have gone to see one when they had a problem they could not deal with themselves. Actually I wish I had gone to one much sooner with one of my other dogs, then maybe she wouldn't have the problem she does today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 I'm in Toowoomba QLD 2hrs west from brisbane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 (edited) Contact Jane Harper - she's in Queensland (Brisbane, I think). ETA - Even doing the NDTF Cert III Course, although it provides you with good grounding/foundation upon which to build further knowledge and experience, does not necessarily 'ready' you to be able to deal with matters of aggression. As Nekhbet and Kavik have mentioned - there is no shame in asking for help, NDTF Course attendee or not. In fact, calling in for professional help will not only assist you and your dog for the problem at hand, but will also gain you some insight and experience that does not avail many until somewhat later during or after the Course. By then you will probably be just beginning to realise how complex the issue of aggression is and why it cannot wisely be dealt with over the internet, and why no responsible trainer would agree to do so. I also agree that working your dog off another person is very precarious. There are some other things that need to be investigated and if necessary adjusted at a foundation level first (ie obedience training skills and leadership) before venturing to expose to the immediate issue you speak of. And when the phase for exposure to other people is appropriate, you will learn how to introduce this properly and how to manage/deal and train for behaviour modification. Edited October 25, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 professionals cost money but lawsuits cost more or your dog may be destroyed if it actually does bite someone. Third time - why did you let it get past the first? You need professional assistance NOT internet advice because problems like this need visual confirmation of body language, posturing and build up. Also the method used needs monitoring and maybe even changing with the dog itself and you may get the completely wrong information. DO NOT USE ANOTHER PERSON TO HELP YOU TRAIN THIS DOG YOURSELF. You are creating a potentially dangerous situation or you run the risk of fulfilling her expectation and escalating the behavior - so instead of bailing and barking she could take it a step further and attack. As Kavik has said it is not a failing at all to ask for assistance and professional opinions. I too have done the NDTF course, have trained dogs in various difficult disciplines but no WAY do I know everything. I will still ask others for their opinions because its the responsible thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I agree with the fact that personal professional help is urgently needed here. Contact the person recommended to you, and get this problem resolved with someone expert in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alasse Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I also live in Toowoomba area freerunning. Can i say, go and see the Toowoomba Dog Obedience Club (if you haven't already that is). They operate at the park on the corner of Hursley Rd & Tor streets. They can help you, i know they did with me and my dogs similar problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
free Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 The weird thing is she is fine with kids off lead and when on lead no aggression at all. I was going to the Toowoomba Obedience club while she was a puppy for socialisation but to be honest they aren't very good, especially compared Australian Dog Training in Victoria. They don't really teach you anything or how to do anything. They jsut say sit your dog, now drop your dog and leave it at that. I will find a dog trainer to give me a hand though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Freerunning I'd not be testing that 'safe with kids' theory to destruction. I'm sure you weren't meaning to. You need a behaviourist, not just a trainer to help with this. I'd strongly recommend you follow up with the Jane Harper recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alasse Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Hmm ok....i found them excellent helping with my dogs aggression problems...but everyone experiences things differently i spose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 It is my humble opinion that you want to be really careful using corrections in this case. It sounds a lot like a dog my mother had a few years ago. Despite being raised in her home as a puppy and despite her doing everything right (socialisation, puppy preschool, training, NILIF) he got worse and worse as he grew older and eventually bit someone. By that stage he certainly was not allowed off leash, but someone came up to him and tried to pat him even though he was growling. Some people are idiots, but it doesn't help the dogs to blame people you can't control. Anyway, a professional was called to see this dog and we were told he had every kind of aggression under the sun and that if he was any bigger he ought to be put down. I think most of it was based in fear. He would come around to strangers, but ONLY if they ignored him. Sometimes dogs like that... if they get punished in any way shape or form while they are engaging in the aggressive behaviour, it can be sort of like a justification to them that they were right to be so worked up about it all. The professional that saw my mother's dog said he would never be trustworthy and she would be looking at a whole lot of management. She had kids in the house and other dogs and just wasn't in a position where she could have an aggressive dog, so he went back to his breeder. Both me and my mother wonder to this day if it would have been kinder to put him to sleep. Life was a big trial for that little guy. Every new person, every new dog, every new situation was a cause of deep anxiety for him. Socialisation just made it worse because it was too hard to keep it all below his threshold. At least it sounds like your dog is not this bad. It's hard to say what's going on from the internet, but I would just point out my usual mantra that most of training is forming good habits. A lot of problems are habit related as well. If she's only doing it to adults and off leash, it makes me think you're dealing with a habit rather than something real like the dog my mother had. I sure hope so. But I could be completely off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 (edited) Please keep us up to date with your progress, I will be very interested in this one. A friend of has a GSD who is 11 now who has always done this...in fact that was how we originally met, since her dog charged at me hackles up & barking. I must say I was TOTALLY terrified, especially since I was holding my 2 week old baby in my arms at the time. Anyway, she turned out to be the sweetest, most loving & affectionate of dogs, a true gentle giant who just has this really weird approach thing, but has never taken it any further in the 9 years we have been friends. I am not saying this is the case with your dog, you need to see someone & have it assessed. What I can tell you is that it is terrifying for the person on the other side and obviously a potential disaster waiting to happen. I wonder if this is a common GSD thing? I met another GSD recently who seemed to do the same thing. Edited October 25, 2008 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I wouldn't say it is a common GSD thing - Diesel does not do this nor his breeder's dogs - and they are security dogs. There is a GSD at the park that does this to Diesel - rushes up, barking, hackles up, but not to people. It would be terrifying to be on the other end of that display I'm always careful when I let Diesel go up to people in case they are scared of him, though he goes up gently and is a big smooch butt, loves to lean on and get pats from guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 You are actually breaking the law by allowing your dog to "rush" up to people, same with other dogs. She sounds downright scary. The people on the corner near me had a dog like this and a lowish fence and it was terrifying to pass by. I avoided going by but the Council received a number of complaints about her behaviour and the owners got rid of her, after getting in the behaviouralist that charges an arm and a leg for throwing a chain on the ground. What they should have done was fenced the property better but they are not good dog owners anyway so it was all too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RL1 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 behaviouralist that charges an arm and a leg for throwing a chain on the ground. Lol, i had the same trainer by the sounds of it. The chain thrower. Qualifications received from the inside of a cornflake's box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 behaviouralist that charges an arm and a leg for throwing a chain on the ground. Sounds like Barkbusters.....far from "behaviourists" IMO! The advice given to you here, freerunning, is sound, seek the advice of a professional who has had experience in dealing with these issues. This is a serious issue which should not be left to fester. You say she's getting closer each time, this should warn you that you have a a potential law suit on your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charli73 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 thats exactly what bark busters taught my sister to do, chain throw... and my GSD never does this either, she just sniffs strangers and if they go to pat her shes licking them all over... Suss out Ernys suggestion now.. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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