Recent Advice From Pet Store

[baker_girl]

Hi All,

My 4 and a half month old pup is learning really fast and training is going great. Our walks have been really enjoyable and I've been really consistent with training on the lead and getting her to walk nicely on a loose lead and not pulling. The biggest thing I am trying to discipline at the moment is not lunging, pulling or jumping whenever we walk past another person or dog. My dog gets really excited and I am finding it hard to know how to control this.

I confirmed Basic Obedience training last night and while speaking with the trainer she suggested a few methods to try in the meantime such as:

- Distraction techniques ie: light sparying with a water bottle or throwing a can of coins and the ground to get attention and break focus

- Stopping and getting the dog to sit and then reward once distraction has gone past

- Head Halter on walks for a few weeks to condition the beahviour you want and then test

Anyway all those suggestions seemed fine and just considering what might work best. I've used a halti before but to me it was my last option of choice as my theory was I want to stop the beahviour all together rather than just use something that doesn't let her do it. Is this logic ok? I mean she is fine on walks but only when someone walks past does she try to challenge me and get closer to the other person/dog. So I would like to try and correct the problem then when she is doing it not for the entire walk with a Halti.

I went to a pet store today just to see if they had any products I could use for distraction like a clicker or spray bottle. I asked the store assistant there and she told me she is also a trainer. She asked me the problem and straightaway before I finished explaining fully, she just told me to switch to a heald halter. I told her I didn't really want to for the same reasons above and she just reiterated how good it is. She told me negative reinforcement won't work as well as positive and that using a halti plus getting the dog to sit and wait and then treating is positive. To me, I always thought the halti was partially a negative reinforcement tool as most dogs really dislike them.

I was a bit annoyed with how adamant she was with the product and eventually left because I didn't feel I'd get any other suggestions or options from there. Anyone else ever felt the same way or could offer some useful suggestions?

[laffi]

There has been a lot of debates on DOL about head halters. I am not going to start one here. I think they can be a great tool if conditioned properly, however most people just put them on the dog and are ready to go.

In your situation I believe the best solution would be clicker training with distractions. I would start with low distractions and click and treat whenever the dog redirects towards you. After that I would increase distractions (by coming close to people or dogs) and C&T whenever the dog ignores them and looks at you. It might take a bit but I definitely think it's worth it. If you go too fast too soon and the dog starts ignoring you and getting too excited around other people/dogs, just take few steps back (well as many as you need for the dog to start paying attention to you again).

Btw I would NEVER use a clicker as a distraction noise.

[Cosmolo]

Are you going to obedience? there are lots of different options that you can use- with each piece of equipment having pros and cons. At 4 1/2 months i am always inclined to try to use a normal collar if possible- what do you currently do with the normal collar when your pup lunges?

Putting a headcollar on a lunging dog can be dangerous if you are not given proper instruction on how to use it correctly.

[baker_girl]

In your situation I believe the best solution would be clicker training with distractions. I would start with low distractions and click and treat whenever the dog redirects towards you. After that I would increase distractions (by coming close to people or dogs) and C&T whenever the dog ignores them and looks at you. It might take a bit but I definitely think it's worth it. If you go too fast too soon and the dog starts ignoring you and getting too excited around other people/dogs, just take few steps back (well as many as you need for the dog to start paying attention to you again).

Btw I would NEVER use a clicker as a distraction noise.

Yeah read a few of the debates too on head halters Ok, I was considering clicker training as read a few good things about it on her but have to admit never done it before so will need to read up on it. So the idea is to click to redirect their attention away from the distraction and then treat but never to just use the clicker to make a distraction noise with no real purpose or goal and no reward?

Are you going to obedience? there are lots of different options that you can use- with each piece of equipment having pros and cons. At 4 1/2 months i am always inclined to try to use a normal collar if possible- what do you currently do with the normal collar when your pup lunges?

Putting a headcollar on a lunging dog can be dangerous if you are not given proper instruction on how to use it correctly.

Yes we have obedience booked in for 3 weeks time which is the next class. Trainer said I could just try and hold out until then or try a few suggestions in the meantime. Currently I use a flat collar. When she pulls I try to make a noise to get her attention 'Ah' and then light pull on the leash to correct her back. Sometimes this works and sometimes she is too distracted. In those instances I have made her sit and wait till the distraction passes.

[poodlefan]

I'd never recommend a head halter for a dog that lunges. I think a limited slip or martingale collar and work on getting the dog to focus on YOU would be more successful in the long run anyway.

[baker_girl]

I'd never recommend a head halter for a dog that lunges. I think a limited slip or martingale collar and work on getting the dog to focus on YOU would be more successful in the long run anyway.

Yes agreed. Which was kind of why I'm not really keen on the option. Yes I think the key is getting her to focus on me away from the distraction. I mean I have tried that and she is quite good....when there is nothing to distract her She just gets so excited to play. I'm hoping in time with persistent training but also once she socialises more around dogs she'll get better. I walk her everyday just to get her out there and experiencing different distractions, situations and environments.

[laffi]

In your situation I believe the best solution would be clicker training with distractions. I would start with low distractions and click and treat whenever the dog redirects towards you. After that I would increase distractions (by coming close to people or dogs) and C&T whenever the dog ignores them and looks at you. It might take a bit but I definitely think it's worth it. If you go too fast too soon and the dog starts ignoring you and getting too excited around other people/dogs, just take few steps back (well as many as you need for the dog to start paying attention to you again).

Btw I would NEVER use a clicker as a distraction noise.

Yeah read a few of the debates too on head halters Ok, I was considering clicker training as read a few good things about it on her but have to admit never done it before so will need to read up on it. So the idea is to click to redirect their attention away from the distraction and then treat but never to just use the clicker to make a distraction noise with no real purpose or goal and no reward?

Nope, the click is a marker for the behavior you want. So you click when the dog looks at you (and not other people/dogs). That's why you need to start with low distractions to give a dog a chance to be successful and get lots of clicks and treats for looking at you!

The click should not be used as a lure or as a distraction from other things. It's only a marker. After a click a reward (treat or toy) should ALWAYS follow.

Edited October 24, 2008 by laffi

[baker_girl]

In your situation I believe the best solution would be clicker training with distractions. I would start with low distractions and click and treat whenever the dog redirects towards you. After that I would increase distractions (by coming close to people or dogs) and C&T whenever the dog ignores them and looks at you. It might take a bit but I definitely think it's worth it. If you go too fast too soon and the dog starts ignoring you and getting too excited around other people/dogs, just take few steps back (well as many as you need for the dog to start paying attention to you again).

Btw I would NEVER use a clicker as a distraction noise.

Yeah read a few of the debates too on head halters Ok, I was considering clicker training as read a few good things about it on her but have to admit never done it before so will need to read up on it. So the idea is to click to redirect their attention away from the distraction and then treat but never to just use the clicker to make a distraction noise with no real purpose or goal and no reward?

Nope, the click is a marker for the behavior you want. So you click when the dog looks at you (and not other people/dogs). That's why you need to start with low distractions to give a dog a chance to be successful and get lots of clicks and treats for looking at you!

The click should not be used as a lure or as a distraction from other things. It's only a marker. After a click a reward (treat or toy) should ALWAYS follow.

Oh ok, make sense. So how do I get the dog's attention in the first place? Can I call her name then she looks at me then mark it will the clicker and then reward with a treat? Continue doing that with low distractions until she's got it?

[huski]

Was this a pet store (that doesn't sell animals) in Brisbane? Sounds like a trainer I know who works at a pet store. She likes to peddle a halti as a purely positive/kind tool but the reality is that its not IMO any more "positive" than a check/prong/martingale etc.

As others have said clicker training isn't about distraction, its more like a cue for the dog to understand when they have done the right thing.

[baker_girl]

Was this a pet store (that doesn't sell animals) in Brisbane? Sounds like a trainer I know who works at a pet store. She likes to peddle a halti as a purely positive/kind tool but the reality is that its not IMO any more "positive" than a check/prong/martingale etc.

As others have said clicker training isn't about distraction, its more like a cue for the dog to understand when they have done the right thing.

No it wasn't. It was a pet store (doesn't sell animals) on the gold coast. Must be a few around

[huski]

Was this a pet store (that doesn't sell animals) in Brisbane? Sounds like a trainer I know who works at a pet store. She likes to peddle a halti as a purely positive/kind tool but the reality is that its not IMO any more "positive" than a check/prong/martingale etc.

As others have said clicker training isn't about distraction, its more like a cue for the dog to understand when they have done the right thing.

No it wasn't. It was a pet store (doesn't sell animals) on the gold coast. Must be a few around

Sounds like there are a few of the same trainers in QLD

[laffi]

In your situation I believe the best solution would be clicker training with distractions. I would start with low distractions and click and treat whenever the dog redirects towards you. After that I would increase distractions (by coming close to people or dogs) and C&T whenever the dog ignores them and looks at you. It might take a bit but I definitely think it's worth it. If you go too fast too soon and the dog starts ignoring you and getting too excited around other people/dogs, just take few steps back (well as many as you need for the dog to start paying attention to you again).

Btw I would NEVER use a clicker as a distraction noise.

Yeah read a few of the debates too on head halters Ok, I was considering clicker training as read a few good things about it on her but have to admit never done it before so will need to read up on it. So the idea is to click to redirect their attention away from the distraction and then treat but never to just use the clicker to make a distraction noise with no real purpose or goal and no reward?

Nope, the click is a marker for the behavior you want. So you click when the dog looks at you (and not other people/dogs). That's why you need to start with low distractions to give a dog a chance to be successful and get lots of clicks and treats for looking at you!

The click should not be used as a lure or as a distraction from other things. It's only a marker. After a click a reward (treat or toy) should ALWAYS follow.

Oh ok, make sense. So how do I get the dog's attention in the first place? Can I call her name then she looks at me then mark it will the clicker and then reward with a treat? Continue doing that with low distractions until she's got it?

I would start at home/in your yard (the lowest distractions place). Take some treats and sit down. If she comes and looks at you click and treat (C&T). Do it ~10 times and finish session here (I would repeat this session a couple of times, sometimes throwing treats around so you click whenever she picks her head up and looks at you after eating her treat). After that put her leash on and literally walk 2-3m and stop. She will look at you to see what happened, C&T that. Build up slowly. The more foundation you have in lower distractions the more powerful the click will become and she will try to look at you more and more for a C&T.

Does that make sense?

[baker_girl]

In your situation I believe the best solution would be clicker training with distractions. I would start with low distractions and click and treat whenever the dog redirects towards you. After that I would increase distractions (by coming close to people or dogs) and C&T whenever the dog ignores them and looks at you. It might take a bit but I definitely think it's worth it. If you go too fast too soon and the dog starts ignoring you and getting too excited around other people/dogs, just take few steps back (well as many as you need for the dog to start paying attention to you again).

Btw I would NEVER use a clicker as a distraction noise.

Yeah read a few of the debates too on head halters Ok, I was considering clicker training as read a few good things about it on her but have to admit never done it before so will need to read up on it. So the idea is to click to redirect their attention away from the distraction and then treat but never to just use the clicker to make a distraction noise with no real purpose or goal and no reward?

Nope, the click is a marker for the behavior you want. So you click when the dog looks at you (and not other people/dogs). That's why you need to start with low distractions to give a dog a chance to be successful and get lots of clicks and treats for looking at you!

The click should not be used as a lure or as a distraction from other things. It's only a marker. After a click a reward (treat or toy) should ALWAYS follow.

Oh ok, make sense. So how do I get the dog's attention in the first place? Can I call her name then she looks at me then mark it will the clicker and then reward with a treat? Continue doing that with low distractions until she's got it?

I would start at home/in your yard (the lowest distractions place). Take some treats and sit down. If she comes and looks at you click and treat (C&T). Do it ~10 times and finish session here (I would repeat this session a couple of times, sometimes throwing treats around so you click whenever she picks her head up and looks at you after eating her treat). After that put her leash on and literally walk 2-3m and stop. She will look at you to see what happened, C&T that. Build up slowly. The more foundation you have in lower distractions the more powerful the click will become and she will try to look at you more and more for a C&T.

Does that make sense?

Ok thanks! Yes does make sense. My sis has a clicker so I will pop around tonight to borrow it and start off slowly.