How To Teach Drop From A Stand?

[Kavik]

The only clubs that personally know of that don't allow food use more traditional methods of show/guide/place and praise, and use check chains.

Every club that I have attended allows and encourages the use of anything your dog likes as a reward.

[Leema]

I taught Clover to drop by putting food in my fist, and then having my fist on the floor. Clover tried numerous things until eventually dropping, when I clicked her elbows hitting the ground and she got the food reward. We did this several times with food, then I started just using my fist and clicking elbows hitting the ground, and rewarding with food from my pocket. Very quickly, Clover started putting her elbows on the ground in anticipation and before I had to have my fist on the ground.

If your club does not allow food, then you could do this with a small toy in your hand.

Here is a video of her at 13wks doing a drop. Of course, I could've 'forced' her into doing a drop, but that is not my style. Her drop is because she does, and always has, wanted to.

[MonElite]

Doesn't this relate to Steve (K9 force) saying that training in drive is better than rewarding with food? Maybe we need another thread about approaches to rewards.

I think you have a bit of a theory wrong.

You can sucessfully train the dog in food DRIVE, but there is a difference between food DRIVE and food bribing.

I think you meant training in PREY drive in your post.

Many people teach the mechanics of an excercise using food and than move on to training/speeding it up/proofing the excercise in prey drive.

I personally cant see anything wrong with that. There are dogs taht go from zero to million miles and hour in prey drive and are not so crazy about food and it is easier to teach them a behaviour with food rather than with a toy.

If a dog has little prey drive but great food drive, the better drive to train it in would be food.

Edited October 24, 2008 by Monelite

[Diva]

Just a side point, but adolescent giant breed pups don't always have a good idea of what their rear end is doing. They may drop the front and leave their bum up in the air, and need a gentle reminder to drop the rear end too and careful setting of criteria so you don't inadvertently reward bows instead of drops from the stand.

[cassie]

I teach my dogs new tricks with rewards like food. I don't think there is anything wrong with it if you use it to teach them something/understand a command.

Ohh yes, don't get me wrong, I've taught all my dogs past and present initially with food, basically as a lure, but I want them to be able to perform when the food is not there also.

That's not a problem with food, that's a problem with the way you trained.

And I'd never attend a club that didn't embrace all methods of training which is also why I'll never attend a club. If they're worried about people flicking food around then have smaller class sizes. Irresponsible clubs.

Yeah I realise it's a problem with the way I've trained him, hence asking for advice on how to fix it. And I don't believe my club is irresponsible and the class sizes ARE small with 5-6 dogs max to each instructor, but meh that's your opinion, no probs As you said, you wouldn't attend a club, whereas I find it very beneficial, and this one is close to me and very reasonably priced and I am enjoying it, as is my pup

I taught Clover to drop by putting food in my fist, and then having my fist on the floor. Clover tried numerous things until eventually dropping, when I clicked her elbows hitting the ground and she got the food reward. We did this several times with food, then I started just using my fist and clicking elbows hitting the ground, and rewarding with food from my pocket. Very quickly, Clover started putting her elbows on the ground in anticipation and before I had to have my fist on the ground.

If your club does not allow food, then you could do this with a small toy in your hand.

Here is a video of her at 13wks doing a drop. Of course, I could've 'forced' her into doing a drop, but that is not my style. Her drop is because she does, and always has, wanted to.

Thanks Leema, I like your method of teaching the drop, will try that with Huds Great video also, you're a great trainer and have a very clever student

Just a side point, but adolescent giant breed pups don't always have a good idea of what their rear end is doing. They may drop the front and leave their bum up in the air, and need a gentle reminder to drop the rear end too and careful setting of criteria so you don't inadvertently reward bows instead of drops from the stand.

Thanks I'll remember that

[huski]

I guess it depends how food motivated your dog is too - like Monelite explained food is a drive and you could technically use it in drive training. I phase out food as I'm training but if we are at obedience I still take some with me and use it occassionally.

[Bisart Dobes]

Hi, this is my first post to this forum but I thought this was interesting.

Firstly the only rule there is with rewards and their value is that "the dog chooses the reward". Pretty simple. I have 5 dogs in training at present (& 1 oldie on the couch) - 3 are trialling and 2 are 11 mths old. They all have different rewards and they all work 'in drive'. Working for food reward is working in drive - if it is done correctly (and I don't mean bribing or shoving three meals down the dogs throat in one training session). The bitch I have just titled in CD works for food and tug - she gained her CD title in 3 trials - all 1st plc and today at Gisbourne she also got HIT for her title - so let your dog tell you how they want to get paid and they will do their job.

Teaching a large dog to drop from stand. Now this is interesting but only because they are physically slower than more agile breeds. I would teach along side a wall (hallway is fine to start) to correct the sloppy drop and would only teach this exercise for the dogs dinner. Yup - 3 drops from stand position and you will get your dinner - this clicks the brain into gear pretty quick. As one post said already I think - light hand on your dogs shoulder blades and the food under the dogs nose then guide back and down - with the level of training your dog has I would ask for a hold of position for 5 seconds first day with 3 reps and build up over a couple of weeks then move to outside again against a barrier to correct sloppy drop.

Remember also though that you should ensure your dog is physically capable of dropping like a sphynx before you insist on it - some bigger dogs just cannot do it. And a decent judge will allow for breed differences.

Best of luck and let us know how you go,

Bernadette Smith

Bisart Dobermanns

NDTF Trainer & Canine Myotherapist

[Erny]

Cassie - if your dog knows the 'drop from sit' command well, you might need to change your command for the teaching of 'drop from stand'. Sometimes dogs simply catch on without a change in command - perhaps they are the ones who find it really comfortable to drop from a stand anyway. Just something to keep in mind.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Erny

[MonElite]

Welcome to DOL Bernadette!!!

Monika with Rex and Divani

Edited October 27, 2008 by Monelite

[Erny]

Hi, this is my first post to this forum but I thought this was interesting.

Bernadette Smith

Bisart Dobermanns

NDTF Trainer & Canine Myotherapist

Well heeeellllllllllllllllooooooooooo stranger!!!

Hope you're well. And hope we'll see you around a bit in this forum and I can catch up (other than via a 'common' friend - you'll know whom I mean ) with some of the stuff you're up to.

[cassie]

Hi, this is my first post to this forum but I thought this was interesting.

Firstly the only rule there is with rewards and their value is that "the dog chooses the reward". Pretty simple. I have 5 dogs in training at present (& 1 oldie on the couch) - 3 are trialling and 2 are 11 mths old. They all have different rewards and they all work 'in drive'. Working for food reward is working in drive - if it is done correctly (and I don't mean bribing or shoving three meals down the dogs throat in one training session). The bitch I have just titled in CD works for food and tug - she gained her CD title in 3 trials - all 1st plc and today at Gisbourne she also got HIT for her title - so let your dog tell you how they want to get paid and they will do their job.

Teaching a large dog to drop from stand. Now this is interesting but only because they are physically slower than more agile breeds. I would teach along side a wall (hallway is fine to start) to correct the sloppy drop and would only teach this exercise for the dogs dinner. Yup - 3 drops from stand position and you will get your dinner - this clicks the brain into gear pretty quick. As one post said already I think - light hand on your dogs shoulder blades and the food under the dogs nose then guide back and down - with the level of training your dog has I would ask for a hold of position for 5 seconds first day with 3 reps and build up over a couple of weeks then move to outside again against a barrier to correct sloppy drop.

Remember also though that you should ensure your dog is physically capable of dropping like a sphynx before you insist on it - some bigger dogs just cannot do it. And a decent judge will allow for breed differences.

Best of luck and let us know how you go,

Bernadette Smith

Bisart Dobermanns

NDTF Trainer & Canine Myotherapist

Cassie - if your dog knows the 'drop from sit' command well, you might need to change your command for the teaching of 'drop from stand'. Sometimes dogs simply catch on without a change in command - perhaps they are the ones who find it really comfortable to drop from a stand anyway. Just something to keep in mind.

Thanks to both of you for your input, much appreciated!

[Bisart Dobes]

Well heeeellllllllllllllllooooooooooo stranger!!!

Hope you're well. And hope we'll see you around a bit in this forum and I can catch up (other than via a 'common' friend - you'll know whom I mean ) with some of the stuff you're up to.

Hi, Looks like you've been a very busy girl - me, I've been focusing on our dogs and loving it. We now have:

DUAL CH (T) Coppertop Catch A Look CGC CD BH ET WAC ROM BS (Rhemy) (who you would have met - how many years ago ?????)

her daughter & son

DUAL CH (T) Bisart Diamond Spirit CGC CCD CD ET (Lexi)

T CH Bisart Double Dare CGC CCD CD ET WAC (Darred)

and their neice & nephew

Bisart Emerald Illusion (Charli)

Bisart Easy Ryder (Ryder)

Loving all of them and enjoying the journey.

Bernadette