Hysterectomy For Puppy

[Dame Aussie]

I’ve been reading up on getting a hysterectomy for my puppy rather than a normal spay and just saw this on a web site–

“Tumors of the reproductive tract: Tumors can occur in the uterus and ovaries. An OHE would, of course, eliminate any possibility of these occurring.”

So if this is correct I should probably remove her lungs, bones, brain and pretty much anything else that could develop a tumor??!!! Argh! Why is it all so one sided?!

I definitely do not want to breed and don’t want Lili to get pregnant but I want her to grow properly and don’t really like the idea of depriving her of natural hormones. I am fully prepared to keep her secure and from wandering while she is in heat and the mess really doesn’t worry me, I can deal with that. I just hate the fact vets neglect to mention ANY disadvantages to a normal spay, when there seem to be many.

I’m just wondering if anyone here has had a hysterectomy done and if they have any personal advice/experience on it, where to go, advantages/disadvantages, cost etc

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks

[poodlefan]

Standard spay procedure for a female dog is an ovariohysterectomy

The uterus is routinely removed during desexing ops. If it was only tubal ligation, the bitch would still have seasons.

ETA: If you have concerns about developmental issues, delay the op. Of course, you need to be able to manage a dog in season to prevent an unwanted litter.

Edited October 22, 2008 by poodlefan

[morgan]

Haven't had it done as my girls remain entire all their lives, but have spoken to several vets about it and all have said that it would take a little longer to perform and therefore be a bit more expensive.

The bitch will still come into season and produce pheromones to attract boys and be mateable, but won't have any messy discharge. One vet I spoke to suggested removing one ovary to reduce the behaviours when in season, but still allowing some hormones. By only leaving one ovary you are also reducing the chance of mammary tumours.

So the upside is no puppies and reduced chance of pyometra (even bitches spayed normally can get stump pyometra) plus no spay incontinence and completely normal growth. Also no mess when in season.

Downside is slightly longer, more expensive op (and difficult to find a vet to do it) and bitch still needs to be contained while in season.

[Miranda]

Do you mean that you just want the uterus removed but not the ovaries? If that's what you mean no I have never had it done. Bitches spayed as puppies generally grow slightly taller and there is a slight chance of developing urinary incontinence, but I can't think of any other disadvantages. If you're worried about it why don't you let her have one season and then get her desexed?

[Dame Aussie]

Standard spay procedure for a female dog is an ovariohysterectomy

The uterus is routinely removed during desexing ops. If it was only tubal ligation, the bitch would still have seasons.

ETA: If you have concerns about developmental issues, delay the op. Of course, you need to be able to manage a dog in season to prevent an unwanted litter.

Sorry my error. I wasn't looking at tubal ligation.

I am confident I can keep her safe during her season.

I guess I just worry that we won't notice in time and she could be exposed accidentally.

[Dame Aussie]

Haven't had it done as my girls remain entire all their lives, but have spoken to several vets about it and all have said that it would take a little longer to perform and therefore be a bit more expensive.

The bitch will still come into season and produce pheromones to attract boys and be mateable, but won't have any messy discharge. One vet I spoke to suggested removing one ovary to reduce the behaviours when in season, but still allowing some hormones. By only leaving one ovary you are also reducing the chance of mammary tumours.

So the upside is no puppies and reduced chance of pyometra (even bitches spayed normally can get stump pyometra) plus no spay incontinence and completely normal growth. Also no mess when in season.

Downside is slightly longer, more expensive op (and difficult to find a vet to do it) and bitch still needs to be contained while in season.

Thank you for that.

I expected it would be more expensive, i hadn't thought about leaving one ovary, that might be something to look into.

[Dame Aussie]

Do you mean that you just want the uterus removed but not the ovaries? If that's what you mean no I have never had it done. Bitches spayed as puppies generally grow slightly taller and there is a slight chance of developing urinary incontinence, but I can't think of any other disadvantages. If you're worried about it why don't you let her have one season and then get her desexed?

Yes that's what I meant

[poodlefan]

Standard spay procedure for a female dog is an ovariohysterectomy

The uterus is routinely removed during desexing ops. If it was only tubal ligation, the bitch would still have seasons.

ETA: If you have concerns about developmental issues, delay the op. Of course, you need to be able to manage a dog in season to prevent an unwanted litter.

Sorry my error. I wasn't looking at tubal ligation.

I am confident I can keep her safe during her season.

I guess I just worry that we won't notice in time and she could be exposed accidentally.

No, mine.. I didn't understand your post.

[morgan]

Thank you for that.

I expected it would be more expensive, i hadn't thought about leaving one ovary, that might be something to look into.

I have read of research where they are splicing some ovarian tissue under the skin after normal spay to continue producing a limited amount of hormones - this of course has to be followed up for some time to see if it eliminates spay incontinence, increased cancer rate etc. This apparently stops the bitch coming into season due to the reduced amount of hormones, but then I would be worried about incontinence and increased cancer rates for the same reason.

[Nekhbet]

I’ve been reading up on getting a hysterectomy for my puppy rather than a normal spay and just saw this on a web site–

“Tumors of the reproductive tract: Tumors can occur in the uterus and ovaries. An OHE would, of course, eliminate any possibility of these occurring.”

So if this is correct I should probably remove her lungs, bones, brain and pretty much anything else that could develop a tumor??!!! Argh! Why is it all so one sided?!

try being a vet nurse with two entire dogs

I agree why not leave one ovary in, why remove everything. I dont understand when vets will wave off the whole ovariohysterectomy as no big deal but leave your dog entire and OMG ITS GOING TO DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH RIDDLED WITH INFECTIONS AND CANCER!!!

ultimately its your dog and your decision. personally I see nothing wrong with leaving one ovary in but remember if your dog still attracts males then dont go taking her to obedience comps etc where she could tease males when she's 'in season'

[Dame Aussie]

I’ve been reading up on getting a hysterectomy for my puppy rather than a normal spay and just saw this on a web site–

“Tumors of the reproductive tract: Tumors can occur in the uterus and ovaries. An OHE would, of course, eliminate any possibility of these occurring.”

So if this is correct I should probably remove her lungs, bones, brain and pretty much anything else that could develop a tumor??!!! Argh! Why is it all so one sided?!

try being a vet nurse with two entire dogs

I agree why not leave one ovary in, why remove everything. I dont understand when vets will wave off the whole ovariohysterectomy as no big deal but leave your dog entire and OMG ITS GOING TO DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH RIDDLED WITH INFECTIONS AND CANCER!!!

ultimately its your dog and your decision. personally I see nothing wrong with leaving one ovary in but remember if your dog still attracts males then dont go taking her to obedience comps etc where she could tease males when she's 'in season'

Exactly! I'm going to look into it and yeah I know we'll still have to be careful with her . Thanks everyone

[sandgrubber]

I’ve been reading up on getting a hysterectomy for my puppy rather than a normal spay and just saw this on a web site–

My father, who was a medical doctor and something of a maverick, preferred to have a tubal ligation done on his girls. This leaves their hormonal systems natural, but prevents pregnancy. It doesn't have the benefit of stopping seasons, or reducing chances of tumors in the repro system.

The procedure is simple and should be a bit cheaper than a full spey because they don't have to make a large incision or pull anything out.

[Nekhbet]

tubal ligations can occasionally not work especially since vets are not really trained for that.

hysterectomy is good in my books, little chance of pyo but the dog still gets its hormones.

if we have to remove bits of our dogs to prevent cancer maybe we should look at our breeding, not frankensteining them to 'reduce the risk' crap

ETA you can have a vascectomy done on male dogs, again you have to find a vet willing to do it. My boss said it was easier to take them out ... I stared him down ... he laughed and said 'OK but you better be there so I dont get carried away and whip em out" why do they have to be so insistant. The dog is not able to breed so what is wrong with that? Many cant give you an answer and I dont want to give my dog to another vet to find he 'accidentally' removed the testes or ovaries. My dog, my choice, as long as I am not BYB or causing harm/trouble why insist on telling me what is best?

Edited October 22, 2008 by Nekhbet

[Dame Aussie]

Exactly.

I understand why vets want people to desex their pets but they seem to be so biased that they wont even entertain the idea of a responsible owner who is aware of not having an unwanted littler not wanting to alter the way their animal was born, for good reasons.

Very frustrating, I hate the idea of taking away natural hormones which are there FOR A REASON. I just wish all owners were responsible, then we wouldn't have this bias.

[morgan]

If all those people, especially the macho males, who don't want to desex their pet males agreed to have them vasectomised we would have far fewer accidental litters.

If vets promoted this option as an alternative instead of insisting on neutering I'm sure that many would take it up, especially if there was some sort of council registration discount. Obviously the councils' stance on desexing is not just regarding accidental litters, it is more about behavioural issues, but it would still be worthwhile to promote vasectomies.

[witheverythingiam]

I definitely do not want to breed and don’t want Lili to get pregnant but I want her to grow properly and don’t really like the idea of depriving her of natural hormones.

OMG! She's a freakin dog - she doesn't know what's natural & what's not! Do you care if she gets ovarian cancer? Who in their right mind would want a dog still coming into heat even though it's desexed. Talk about crazy!

-WithEverythingIAm

[Nekhbet]

a dog can still have a behavioral issue without its testicles or ovaries. Its rediculous too that some vets only entertain the idea that a dog wil behave if its desexed and if it has problems after, well, its just a BAD DOG! yup. some do.

WEIA what do you think about leaving one ovary in to prevent problems like hormonal incontinence etc in dogs down the track? Technically a dog only needs one ovary not two anyway but they wouldnt really cycle.

There is a vet promoting this option now but I cant find the link *DAMMIT* I lose everything ...

[Dame Aussie]

I definitely do not want to breed and don’t want Lili to get pregnant but I want her to grow properly and don’t really like the idea of depriving her of natural hormones.

OMG! She's a freakin dog - she doesn't know what's natural & what's not! Do you care if she gets ovarian cancer? Who in their right mind would want a dog still coming into heat even though it's desexed. Talk about crazy!

-WithEverythingIAm

No I don't care if she gets ovarian cancer! Of course I care about my dog that's why I was asking for CONSTRUCTIVE advice/opinions.

And I never said that Lili would miss her hormones I just don't like the idea of interfering too much with the way an animal is born. Same way my ovaries weren't taken out when I was younger.

Edited after I took a deep breath :rolleyes:

Edited October 23, 2008 by Aussie3

[Nekhbet]

breathe people ... deep breath in ... deep breath out ...

now. Before this rather interesting and potentially CONSTRUCTIVE AND RATHER INFORMATIVE thread heads to the septic pits as many do these days ...

If everyone was so panicked about the incidences of Ovarian Cancer then wouldnt the risk of showing/breeding be too much? Really its not like 90% of entire dogs will GET ovarian cancer and remaining entire and cycling only increases the risk it DOESNT guarentee it. If having your ovaries in gives you cancer will then there's one hell of a major design flaw eh?

male dogs have have one testicle removed only and the other one vascectomised if overly dominant behavior is attributed to hormones in the lines. I think really people need to be a tad more selective about their breeds and understand their own limitations if we're having so many people need to completely remove hormones from the dog in order to make it able to be a family pet.

Dont get me wrong I'm all for desexing - we sure as hell dont need more litters in the world. But why not leave one ovary or teste in? What is so horrible about that? A bitch is not going to spontaneously spring a new uterus or come into a full blown heat? As for the incidence of cancer, dogs are outliving their average life span these days just like we are. Dogs lives are getting longer and longer, are we looking into that as the incidence of cancer increase? If a dog has cancer at 3-6 yup I'd be worried and I'd sure as hell avoid those lines. But cancer at 10, 11, 13 ... since from the day we are concieved our DNA degrades (hence aging) and since cancer/tumor is a weird allele that has decided to make sure those cells maniacally reproduce who's to say that the incidence of cancer is not attributed to old age degredation and the amount of chemicals in the environment as well?

[Dame Aussie]

Ok I've taken a deep breath

Sorry, I just hate the idea that someone would think I don't want what's best for my dog.

Nekhbet: My point exactly, pretty much any part of the body can develop cancer, I don't think that is reason enough to remove it, we'd be removing everything. Previous dogs I've had have died of brain tumors and bone cancer, we're not going to remove them are we.

And as you said with showing etc, do all these dogs die of ovarian cancer? And do their owners care less about them because they decided to keep them entire? I don't think so

Thanks for all the advice everyone, it's always good to look at all options and make an informed decision and that's what I'll be doing :rolleyes: