Pancreatitas

[Lizzy06]

My small pooch turned two this July she only weighs about 4.5kg and has been sick on and off since Fenbruary. Last month she was finally diagnosed with Chronic Pancreatitas.

I would like some advise from people perhaps in the same situation as me with a small dog.

She is currently on Royal Canin Low Fat diet and i put enzymes in every meal (except when she is feed the dry bikkies) I would like to vary her diet. I sometimes blend a small amount of vegies and broken up small amounts of chicken into the digestive food. She is an extremely fussy dog (probably due to the fact she is an inside dog and i used to feed her pretty much whatever we ate) so the only way i can usually get her to eat the digestive food is by sprinking chicken or fish on the top. Another problem i have come across is that she hardly ever drinks which is very frustrating for me. So with her meal i have to put a fair bit of water in it to make it almost like soup for her.! I try to give her smaller meals as she used to just have a meal at night time. I work full time so i cna only feed her mornings and nights and in the morning i struggle at getting her to eat, i have to sit down and try to sppon feed her, just so i know she has gotten some water down otherwise it is not until the night time that i have a chance to feed her again and that would mean she has only had something to drink every 24 hours. Is there someone out there who can shed some advice or has been through the similar situtation. Basically i want to know whatelse i can feed her that i can add water too instead of the digestive food. (I'm a bit concerned about all the additives and preservatives in the tin food) i would also like to know if it is fine for her to have water in every one of her meals as there is no other way to get her to drink. Also i have heard vitamin e is good to help with pancreas scaring and that Fish Oil etc is also good for them. Where do i buy these things from and how much do i give her etc. Any help at all would be so much appreciated. THANKYOU so much.

[Garry]

You said that finally your dog has been diagnosed! a bit too long for my liking, what are your dogs symptoms? Garry

[Lizzy06]

You said that finally your dog has been diagnosed! a bit too long for my liking, what are your dogs symptoms? Garry

back in febuary she went off her food and vomited a few times. I would go to give her food like a treat (as she was always fussy) and she would go to eat it and then turn her head. Like she wanted it but something was stopping her, So i took her to a vet and they examined her ran simple in house blood tests and kept her for a night or two on ivf fluids and got her back on food. They thought it was pancreatitas but it was never confirmed. Then about 4 months laster similar things started happening again so i took her to a different vet as i wasn't happy with the last. When she got to the vet she did a pee on the floor and it was clear so they tested the concentration level and were concerned there was something wrong with her kidneys as her urea level was also high. They didn't test her for pancreatitias cause they thought it was her kidneys. So they kept her there a couple of days and sent her home on Kidney food which was 20% fat i told the vet a week later i wasn't comfortable her being on it as i noticed the fat content was high and it was proven it was her kidneys so he said to take her off it. They were monitoring her wee and urea / creatin levels for about 6 weeks. The wee went back to back to normal (i put that down to me giving her heaps of water in blended vegies the night before) The urea level went down after the ivf but creapt back up but the creatin was not elevated at all so they turned of the idea it was her kidneys. So about 5-6 weeks ago she was off her food again and i took her to the same vet and they took blood and finally sent it to W.A to test for pancreatitias. It came back as she had it in the middle range i think. So now she is on the low fat diet and enzymes.

The only symptons i have noticed are the slight vomiting and her off her food. Last time i took her to the vet when they finally tested her for pancreatitias they felt her stomach and said she wasn't appearing to be in pain and yet she still had it.

I put it all down to being my fault as i used to feed her little bits of food i would eat like if i had macca's i would give her a little meat and she loved the thickshakes.

Even the second time she got sick i had given her a little bit of thckshake just before, but this last time she got sick i was so strict with her diet and only gave her whati thought was low fat food. Though it has been almost 6 weeks now she has been on the low fat food and enzymes and appears to be doing ok.

[stormie]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. What is her renal function like? You said her urine was dilute (clear) and her urea was high? This sounds like a kidney problem to me.,

particularly as her urea went back up after she came off the fluids. Dogs and cats often feel sick and go off their food when they're kidney's are failing.

Did she have a full blood count and biochemistry to check the rest of her organs? How was her liver?

I'd probably look into a referral for a specialist as it sounds like no one is sure what is going on...

[Lizzy06]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. What is her renal function like? You said her urine was dilute (clear) and her urea was high? This sounds like a kidney problem to me.,

particularly as her urea went back up after she came off the fluids. Dogs and cats often feel sick and go off their food when they're kidney's are failing.

Did she have a full blood count and biochemistry to check the rest of her organs? How was her liver?

I'd probably look into a referral for a specialist as it sounds like no one is sure what is going on...

How do i know / find out what her renal function is like? I know they did so many blood tests. Yes she had a full blood count and biochemistry and everything was normal. Her Urine has since been 100% normal concentration. They think her urea must just sit a little higher for her and that i was feeding her kangaroo and that probably made it high due to the protein also because she doesn't drink much could also cause it to be high.

They tested her pancreatitias and that came back absoultelty positive. Now that i have kept her on the low fat diet she seems to be going well. It has been almost 6-7 weeks now with know sickness etc. She is actually eating like a little piggy the last couple of days i think the enzymes really work.

They were going to do an ultrasound on her kidneys but said they are sure they won't find anything wrong. They apparantly posted a few questions on a specialist vet website and all of the speciast said it doesn't sound like her kidneys due to her being able to concentrate her urine normally now and due to a few other factors... ie she seems good in herself and her createn (not sure how to spell it) level was normal

If her kidneys were failing and they were wrong would she really pick back and and feel good again? i would have thought she would stay off color?

[Garry]

It sounds likely that the diet will fix your problem. Don't combine the wrong foods, give meat only for one meal & then grains & fruit another but combine the vegetables either with the meat or the grains & fruit. Diet given in small amounts 2 to 3 a day, 50% complex carbohydrates, 25% chopped raw green vegies, 25% protein, combos grains & vegies, grains & fruit, protein & vegies. Garry

[Lizzy06]

It sounds likely that the diet will fix your problem. Don't combine the wrong foods, give meat only for one meal & then grains & fruit another but combine the vegetables either with the meat or the grains & fruit. Diet given in small amounts 2 to 3 a day, 50% complex carbohydrates, 25% chopped raw green vegies, 25% protein, combos grains & vegies, grains & fruit, protein & vegies. Garry

Thanks Garry. At the moment she is only on the Digestive / low fat tin food and i put say two teaspoons of blended vegies ( i was told dogs cannot digest vegetables, especially if they suffer from pancreatitas as it is to much work on the organ) and about 2-3 little pieces of chicken shredded on top - otherwise she won't eat it. I hope to one day take her off the digestive food and make her what you said. But that was what i was doing last time, i was giving her kangaroo mince, vegetables and water and that made her sick. So i'm scared to take her off the tin food. But i do want to as i don't trust the preservatives in the tin food.

I appreciate any help or opinions i can get. She is my little girl and i just want her to remain happy & healthy with NO more flare ups!

[katelouise]

Hi there,

My little silky terrier had pancreatitis about a month or so ago. I, like you, was really concerned and the vet also originally thought (because he is 16 years old!) that it may have been his kidneys, however did some tests and pancreatitis was confirmed. No more sausages from the BBQ!!!!

The vet recommended to me to feed him chicken and rice. So I have been boiling rice and mixing that with some chicken. I also have been giving him the Royal Canin low fat biscuits. Dusty is really fussy too, but he seems to like the biscuits. When Dusty was at the vet he was eating the I.D dog food in the tin, but I havent used it at home yet (I did once, but he turned his nose up at it!)

Prior to Dusty getting sick he used to just have one meal at night, however now he has breakfast and dinner which seems to work much better.

I'm not sure what to do about the fluid intake. Dusty drinks pretty well, so sorry about that little issue. However I found that once DUsty started on the biscuits it made him want to drink more, so perhaps if your little girl were to eat something that made her want to drink??? Just a thought thats all.

Keep in touch, sounds like we've both gone through the same thing!!

Kate

[stormie]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. What is her renal function like? You said her urine was dilute (clear) and her urea was high? This sounds like a kidney problem to me.,

particularly as her urea went back up after she came off the fluids. Dogs and cats often feel sick and go off their food when they're kidney's are failing.

Did she have a full blood count and biochemistry to check the rest of her organs? How was her liver?

I'd probably look into a referral for a specialist as it sounds like no one is sure what is going on...

How do i know / find out what her renal function is like? I know they did so many blood tests. Yes she had a full blood count and biochemistry and everything was normal. Her Urine has since been 100% normal concentration. They think her urea must just sit a little higher for her and that i was feeding her kangaroo and that probably made it high due to the protein also because she doesn't drink much could also cause it to be high.

They tested her pancreatitias and that came back absoultelty positive. Now that i have kept her on the low fat diet she seems to be going well. It has been almost 6-7 weeks now with know sickness etc. She is actually eating like a little piggy the last couple of days i think the enzymes really work.

They were going to do an ultrasound on her kidneys but said they are sure they won't find anything wrong. They apparantly posted a few questions on a specialist vet website and all of the speciast said it doesn't sound like her kidneys due to her being able to concentrate her urine normally now and due to a few other factors... ie she seems good in herself and her createn (not sure how to spell it) level was normal

If her kidneys were failing and they were wrong would she really pick back and and feel good again? i would have thought she would stay off color?

Just that you said her urea did go back up after the fluids so that didn't sound like her kidney issue had resolved. I was replying to your initial posts which didn't sound like she was picking up. But if they've done more tests and are happy that it has since resolved, then it's probably not the problem. Just hearing her urine was so dilute and her urea was high, sounds like her kidneys weren't doing their job at that point, but if everything's been normal then hopefully was just a one off and nothing to worry about.

Glad to hear that she's improved on the diet. Pancreatitis is a sucky illness... If it were me though, I'd probably still want to have an ultra sound just to see if they can see any cause for the pancreas to be inflamed. But I hate not knowing why

[Lizzy06]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. What is her renal function like? You said her urine was dilute (clear) and her urea was high? This sounds like a kidney problem to me.,

particularly as her urea went back up after she came off the fluids. Dogs and cats often feel sick and go off their food when they're kidney's are failing.

Did she have a full blood count and biochemistry to check the rest of her organs? How was her liver?

I'd probably look into a referral for a specialist as it sounds like no one is sure what is going on...

How do i know / find out what her renal function is like? I know they did so many blood tests. Yes she had a full blood count and biochemistry and everything was normal. Her Urine has since been 100% normal concentration. They think her urea must just sit a little higher for her and that i was feeding her kangaroo and that probably made it high due to the protein also because she doesn't drink much could also cause it to be high.

They tested her pancreatitias and that came back absoultelty positive. Now that i have kept her on the low fat diet she seems to be going well. It has been almost 6-7 weeks now with know sickness etc. She is actually eating like a little piggy the last couple of days i think the enzymes really work.

They were going to do an ultrasound on her kidneys but said they are sure they won't find anything wrong. They apparantly posted a few questions on a specialist vet website and all of the speciast said it doesn't sound like her kidneys due to her being able to concentrate her urine normally now and due to a few other factors... ie she seems good in herself and her createn (not sure how to spell it) level was normal

If her kidneys were failing and they were wrong would she really pick back and and feel good again? i would have thought she would stay off color?

Just that you said her urea did go back up after the fluids so that didn't sound like her kidney issue had resolved. I was replying to your initial posts which didn't sound like she was picking up. But if they've done more tests and are happy that it has since resolved, then it's probably not the problem. Just hearing her urine was so dilute and her urea was high, sounds like her kidneys weren't doing their job at that point, but if everything's been normal then hopefully was just a one off and nothing to worry about.

Glad to hear that she's improved on the diet. Pancreatitis is a sucky illness... If it were me though, I'd probably still want to have an ultra sound just to see if they can see any cause for the pancreas to be inflamed. But I hate not knowing why

Thankyou. Iam still concerned about her although she seems great in herself etc. Yeah the urine is normal again but the Urea is not. They cannot give me an answer for that at all but have said they are pretty sure it is not her kidneys. They are going to leave it till march next year and test the urea level again. I might take her back in Decemeber and just say i want it checked again now anway. I don't know why it would be high and they don't either. They said if it was her kidneys her Creatnin level would be high as well and she would be drinking alot. Just wish they could tell me exactly instead of just knowing it is high but with no exact cause why. She would be very unlucky to have bad kidneys and a bad pancreas surely!

[Lizzy06]

Hi there,

My little silky terrier had pancreatitis about a month or so ago. I, like you, was really concerned and the vet also originally thought (because he is 16 years old!) that it may have been his kidneys, however did some tests and pancreatitis was confirmed. No more sausages from the BBQ!!!!

The vet recommended to me to feed him chicken and rice. So I have been boiling rice and mixing that with some chicken. I also have been giving him the Royal Canin low fat biscuits. Dusty is really fussy too, but he seems to like the biscuits. When Dusty was at the vet he was eating the I.D dog food in the tin, but I havent used it at home yet (I did once, but he turned his nose up at it!)

Prior to Dusty getting sick he used to just have one meal at night, however now he has breakfast and dinner which seems to work much better.

I'm not sure what to do about the fluid intake. Dusty drinks pretty well, so sorry about that little issue. However I found that once DUsty started on the biscuits it made him want to drink more, so perhaps if your little girl were to eat something that made her want to drink??? Just a thought thats all.

Keep in touch, sounds like we've both gone through the same thing!!

Kate

Hi Kate

Thankyou fo your comments sounds like we have a lot in common with our pooches~!! Yeah it is scary my girl has had three episodes of it so far. Just glad to know she is finally diagnosed and i hope to god that there is nothing else underlying wrong with her like they were initially afraid off. Wow 16 years old is a great age for him to get to!! I will be over the moon if Miss Lizzy gets to that age.... she is onlt 2 at the moment :-( i feel so bad for her going through all of these health problems at such a young age. Not to mention all of the vet bills lol she is sending me broke! But she is worth it!

What sort of chicken do you give to Dusty? Breast chicken and do you boil it? Is that what you give him everyday and twice a day? Do you give him any treats?

I think i have worked the water issue out. While she is on the tin foods they say they have 75% moisture. So if she eats half a tin of food i think that would work out to be about 150mls of water. So buy me adding a little water in her meals it should get her to around the 250ml a day, what they say a dog her size should have.

Do you know anything about Vitamin E? i was told this helps them from scaring. With her having 3 episodes already i was thinking it may be a good idea for me to look into.

Look forward to hearing from you soon

:-) Kris

[stormie]

Lizzy - since being unwell, has any of her treatment been cortisone?

[Lizzy06]

Lizzy - since being unwell, has any of her treatment been cortisone?

I don't think so?? The first time she was sick and was admitted to hospital i know they gave her a couple of injections... i think that was just to stop vomiting though.

Why do you ask?

[Lizzy06]

Lizzy - since being unwell, has any of her treatment been cortisone?

I don't think so?? The first time she was sick and was admitted to hospital i know they gave her a couple of injections... i think that was just to stop vomiting though.

Why do you ask?

I took her to the vet last friday for her yearly needles and i said to them the high urea is still concerning me. It was last monitored checked about 7 - 8 weeks ago. She said because Lizzy while she looked so well and seemed so good she wouldn't worry about testing the urea level again. Until around next march. I didn't push the issue as i have already spent around $2k since Feb on hospitalisation and blood work etc. But i just hope they are right!

[stormie]

Lizzy - since being unwell, has any of her treatment been cortisone?

I don't think so?? The first time she was sick and was admitted to hospital i know they gave her a couple of injections... i think that was just to stop vomiting though.

Why do you ask?

Only because Addisons disease can have similar symptoms your girl has shown. Cortisone has been used to treat pancreatitis and it is also the treatment for Addisons. Urea levels can also go up with Addisons and the urine be dilute. Just a thought

[Lizzy06]

Lizzy - since being unwell, has any of her treatment been cortisone?

I don't think so?? The first time she was sick and was admitted to hospital i know they gave her a couple of injections... i think that was just to stop vomiting though.

Why do you ask?

Only because Addisons disease can have similar symptoms your girl has shown. Cortisone has been used to treat pancreatitis and it is also the treatment for Addisons. Urea levels can also go up with Addisons and the urine be dilute. Just a thought

Hmm i wonder whether they went have tested for that when she was sick. Do you know what exactly that is? By the way your pooch is just so cute. Puts a smile on my face!

[stormie]

Lizzy - since being unwell, has any of her treatment been cortisone?

I don't think so?? The first time she was sick and was admitted to hospital i know they gave her a couple of injections... i think that was just to stop vomiting though.

Why do you ask?

Only because Addisons disease can have similar symptoms your girl has shown. Cortisone has been used to treat pancreatitis and it is also the treatment for Addisons. Urea levels can also go up with Addisons and the urine be dilute. Just a thought

Hmm i wonder whether they went have tested for that when she was sick. Do you know what exactly that is? By the way your pooch is just so cute. Puts a smile on my face!

Thanks :rolleyes:

It's not always an easy thing to diagnose. Most of the time you see changes in their electrolyte levels, but not always, I believe.

Have a read of this link.

Edited October 23, 2008 by stormie

[Lizzy06]

Lizzy - since being unwell, has any of her treatment been cortisone?

I don't think so?? The first time she was sick and was admitted to hospital i know they gave her a couple of injections... i think that was just to stop vomiting though.

Why do you ask?

Only because Addisons disease can have similar symptoms your girl has shown. Cortisone has been used to treat pancreatitis and it is also the treatment for Addisons. Urea levels can also go up with Addisons and the urine be dilute. Just a thought

Hmm i wonder whether they went have tested for that when she was sick. Do you know what exactly that is? By the way your pooch is just so cute. Puts a smile on my face!

Thanks :rolleyes:

It's not always an easy thing to diagnose. Most of the time you see changes in their electrolyte levels, but not always, I believe.

Have a read of this link.

Looked at that link. It would deffinately explain the UREA level. But then that would mean she has that plus Pancreatitas. Next time i see the vet. When i get her food sometimes the vet is there i will see what they say. :-) Exactly what it said though is what happened with her urea level once she was on the iv it went back to normal and stayed normal for a coupl ef weeks and then creeped back up again!

Thanks again mate for all your help. I hope you stay in touch and if you think of anyother advice please let me know. Do you happen to know anythign about suplements ie Vitamin E which is meant to help with scaring etc?

[stormie]

I'm not sure what exact test they did for pancreatitis, but lipase levels can also go up for kidney problems, as well as pancreatitis. They do specific canine pancreatic lipase tests now which is the best diagnosis for pancreatitis, and I'm not sure of whether this would go up with dehydration, like you might see lipase go up on a standard blood test. Just something to keep in mind, particularly if she has another episode.

I'm not sure about the Vitamin E, sorry. I know it is sometimes used in people but I don't believe any studies have been done in dogs. I'd probably just keep to the diet the vet has given you for now, with no supplements.

Let us know how she goes!!

Edited October 23, 2008 by stormie

[Lizzy06]

I'm not sure what exact test they did for pancreatitis, but lipase levels can also go up for kidney problems, as well as pancreatitis. They do specific canine pancreatic lipase tests now which is the best diagnosis for pancreatitis, and I'm not sure of whether this would go up with dehydration, like you might see lipase go up on a standard blood test. Just something to keep in mind, particularly if she has another episode.

I'm not sure about the Vitamin E, sorry. I know it is sometimes used in people but I don't believe any studies have been done in dogs. I'd probably just keep to the diet the vet has given you for now, with no supplements.

Let us know how she goes!!

Yeah the inhouse test showed now change in the lipase levels so then the last time she was sick the tested the canine pancreatits tect cpl or something i cannot remember what it was but it was three letters. They had to send it to Western Ausralia (I live in NSW) and it took a week to get the results back. I will keep you updated!!! But for the time being my fingers and toes and everything else are staying crossed.

Would you still worry about this high urea level or let it go as long as she is well and knowing she has been diagnosed with pancreatitas?