Lynai Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 (edited) Rocco, he is currently at 60 lbs/27.2 kg and is roughly 22 inches at the shoulder. His breeder expects him to be 180-200 as a 1 year old, I'm having a hard time imagining that,but he is gaining a steady 5-6 pounds a week and sprouting upward at a phenomenal rate. His father is incredibley massive at 33.5 inches and 278 pounds (not fat either). Pictures don't do this boy justice, he is built like a sherman tank: This is Greesons Waay Mo Betta I don't imagine these guys would be any more expensive to keep than a bull mastiff...you ought to get one and add to your duo and make it a three muskateer kinda thing Edited November 11, 2008 by Lynai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocco Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Rocco, he is currently at 60 lbs/27.2 kg and is roughly 22 inches at the shoulder. His breeder expects him to be 180-200 as a 1 year old, I'm having a hard time imagining that,but he is gaining a steady 5-6 pounds a week and sprouting upward at a phenomenal rate. His father is incredibley massive at 33.5 inches and 278 pounds (not fat either). Pictures don't do this boy justice, he is built like a sherman tank: This is Greesons Waay Mo Betta I don't imagine these guys would be any more expensive to keep than a bull mastiff...you ought to get one and add to your duo and make it a three muskateer kinda thing hmmm.... but one Mastiff means I could have two Bullmastiffs. BM are my heart and I plan on showing them. Just waiting at the moment for my champion. Oh and I need to fit my SA Boerboel in somewhere as well. In all honestly awhile ago I was at a all breeds Champion show in NZ and I went to admire the Mastiffs. There were some enormous boys and they were still very young as in 4-5 years and they looked old. Had huge growths hanging off them. They moved really slow as they were so huge, not agile or sound. Did I just get a bad bunch of Mastiffs? Do they age fast and slow movement. Can they be agile, but big? So due to that It made me think I can dream but I might admire them from a distance. I haven't seem many over here I like yet. We have one in our street and I swear Rocco's bone is heavier. Your breeding boy - Brutus is my absolute dream Mastiff. Huge bone, wide and not overly tall and you mentioned he moves well. One of the nicest boys I have seen in awhile. I also like Wowsa dad. He looks strong and sound for his size. Arrrgh you have good taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG-DOG-LOVER Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Wowsa is looking exceptionally good In the photo where he is sitting with your son his facial expression is gorgeous - looks so inquisitive!! I love the solid mastiffs as well, there seems to be a lot of different structured mastiffs over here and the good ones are few and far between IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynai Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Rocco, they are funny dogs to show, they do not typically like showing and go into slowmotion mode when doing so. It comes at no surprise that you thought they were slow moving dogs. Really though, these dogs are not as nimble as a Bullmastiff, but they are surprisingly fast when they want to be and have a desitnation to get to. My girl Xia (Avatar and below) is about 180 pounds, when she doesn't want to do something (like show) she is a sack of potatos but when she wants to move, she goes at a shocking fast and rather athletic rate. I think overall Bullmastiffs are probably more agile and more showy than English Mastiffs. BDL, there is such a huge differences in "types" for this breed. I think because it was almost extinct after WWII and Dane/Saint blood was brought back in that we see the various "types"...then, unfortunately, we have all-rounder judges who tend to place "showier" mastiffs over the non show type, even though the breed stgandard says not to do this and then it just perpetuates people breeding leggy, houndy looking dogs. Edited November 12, 2008 by Lynai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocco Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 That's interesting. So the "English Mastiff" was nearly extinct after the war. So they added Great Dane/Saint to the mix to bring back the "Mastiff"? That would make sense with most of the type you see around. What a shame. I always wondered why people got assy when you called them English Mastiff. So is there not much "English Mastiff" type around anymore? So why did the name change from English Mastiff to Mastiff or was it the other way around? I'm not really grasping the stick here am I. I love dog history. Esp the Mastiff as it's one of the ancient breeds. Also why I love the BM as it has a interesting background and purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynai Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 Little history, the Mastiff is also called the English Mastiff and the Old English Mastiff. The name Mastiff does apply specifically to this individual dog, however because it also applies to ALL mastiffs it leads to some confusion. On my dogs registration papers it simply says "Mastiff" for the breed. Many Mastiff owners throw English or Old English in front to help non-Mastiff owners differentiate between the other Molassers that could be included in the "mastiff" type (Bullmastiffs, French, Neo, Brazilian, Saints etc). During WWII (I like history) the Mastiff did indeed become extinct in England. What was left in the states was pretty scrapy looking specimens. So a few dedicated enthusiasts started the long slow road of trying to keep the breed from becoming extinct. They looked to the dogs that had heavy Mastiff influence such as the Saint. Oddly, the Mastiff is one of the foundation dogs of the Saint, so it is kind of fitting that the Saint was used to help the Mastiff. These breeders also brought in Dane and some say hound blood as well..and I'm not sure how much or when it actually stopped. There is a rather well known kennel that is featured in many Mastiff pedigrees (and I think Bullmastiffs as well) that was rumored to have been bringing in non-Mastiff blood as late as the 70's. I don't know how much is true and how much is rumored, but I think ultimately the breeder in question had the best interests of the breed at heart. So here we sit today, the Mastiff is not a cookie cutter breed. In that I mean, if you go to a dog show, you look at the Goldens that come into a show ring and they all pretty much look the same, but that is not the case for Mastiffs, a show ring can have all sorts of sizes and body types. Unfortunately I think all-rounder judges place too much emphasis on dogs with prancing and gaeity in their gates and this can only be gotten from long legged, lighter bodied dogs..so there is becomeing a descrepency between that is widening within the show ring. Here in the states you will hear, east coast vs west coast Mastiffs, or some will say Old English Bloodlines, as the breeders in England have been (imo) more consistant with "type" than the breeders in the states. While many breeders in the states have type that is consistent with what is being seen in England, there are many that are going for a lighter bodied, longer legged, showier dog that, imo, is not truly what a Mastiff should look like. I have a teenager Mastiff that might end up being one of these, I'm hoping this is not the case and she will be filling out...but if she doesn't she cannot go into my breeding program, still a nice dog though, regardless. Probably more than you were wishing, but you asked for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocco Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Thank you, very interesting and you are a book of knowledge. So if the Mastiff nearly became extinct at the end of WW2 1945-ish then the Bullmastiff would have more pure English Mastiff blood running through it then some of the Mastiff around today? Bullmastiff was recognized in England 1800's and having 60% Mastiff running through it. That's exciting. Well Lynai you sure know your Mastiffs and sounds like you will have a fantastic breeding program in getting a correct type back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynai Posted November 29, 2008 Author Share Posted November 29, 2008 (edited) At 18 weeks Wowsa is still packing the food away and growing leaps and bounds. He is eating roughly 10 cups of food a day and out eats my adult mastiffs, as he is putting on a phenomenal 3-5 pounds(1.4-2.3 kg ) a week, his diet is extremely important. These giant breeds can get the wrong nutrition and hose everything up, bone and growth wise. The goal should not be to grow them fast, but to grow them at the a safe and sane rate, slowly. Five pounds a week doesn't seem slow, but he is not fat and I'm keeping his protien and fat levels closely monitored. I feed Eagle Pack Giant Breed puppy formula (this is the ONLY puppy formula that has proper protien, calcium and fat for giant breeds) if anyone knows of another kind, I'm always on the look out for another puppy forumula. I also supplement with Nupro and Cod Liver Oil for super shiney coats. and with my husband Edited November 30, 2008 by Lynai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Loving this thread Although I do have one complaint Pounds mean nothing to us, we need kilos!! I wish you were in Sydney I would be over for cuddles in an instant. Your breeding boy - Brutus is my absolute dream Mastiff It's funny you should say that Rocco as your boy is my dream BM. He is the nicest I've seen as they seem to be getting punier and weedier over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 *drool* How can something so tiny turn into something so huge. Just gorgeous Lyn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynai Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) Thansk raz, yeah they do grow so fast Clyde, just to keep you happy, I edited the post to include kg Edited November 30, 2008 by Lynai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Thank you So how much would he weigh now do you think? Are they terribly active puppies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Loving the latest pics Thanks for keeping this thread going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynai Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 Cassie, it is so much fun compiling the pictures. I have grown mastiffs (obviously) but have never chronicled them as they grew its fun. Clyde, lets see, his current weight in kg is 32.6 (72 pounds). They are not overly active pups, short bursts of energy followed by lots of sleep and more sleep. Even at 4 1/2 months he is still sleeping hours and hours during the day, they grow so fast it takes a ton of energy. However, when he decides its time to scamper around the house WATCH OUT!! Stuff goes flying, large puppy is banking corners and sliding into tables, knocking everything on top off. My house is already mastiff proof, I don't keep anything on coffee tables that can be swept off by tails wagging. But for the most part, puppy to puppy, mastiffs are not anywhere near as energetic as other breed puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG-DOG-LOVER Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Great photos once again Lynai - it's great watching him grow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocco Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 He is so magnificent Lynai. Really looking great. Cant wait for the next growth shots. It's funny you should say that Rocco as your boy is my dream BM.He is the nicest I've seen as they seem to be getting punier and weedier over the years. Thanks Clyde, that means heaps. I love his type and substance as well. He is very special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynai Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 Thanks BDL! You know Rocco and Clyde, don't you think the giant breeds tend to get weedier and worse looking the more popular the dogs become as more and more byb get involved to make a quick buck, but lack the pedigree and breed standard study that should be taken into account before breeding. So often I see dogs just slapped together with the end result looking like a not good. I have seen this happen with BM as well. Rocco is a dreamy guy nice bod and head on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 You know Rocco and Clyde, don't you think the giant breeds tend to get weedier and worse looking the more popular the dogs become as more and more byb get involved to make a quick buck, but lack the pedigree and breed standard study that should be taken into account before breeding. So often I see dogs just slapped together with the end result looking like a not good. I have seen this happen with BM as well. Rocco is a dreamy guy nice bod and head on him This is true of Saints also Many odd-looking specimens in the show-rings these days that I cringe at :shakehead: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynai Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 This is true of Saints also Many odd-looking specimens in the show-rings these days that I cringe at :shakehead: Wow, I'm surprised to hear this is happening in the Saint ring. It has been happening big time with mastiffs, with some of the leggier, prancier Mastiffs winning over the powerful built, true mastiff types..this typically only happens in the open shows with "all rounder" judges. Are you seeing something similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG-DOG-LOVER Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Can't comment on the trend of profiles for Saints (or any other breed) but I must say that I love the stockier look of both Mastiffs and Saints - the chunky heads are the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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